hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Jul 3, 2008 16:32:37 GMT -5
Here's to a Happy 4th of July holiday. For anyone traveling, be safe out there and remember to arrive alive. Use the designated driver tactic and have fun. Unless you are in a fire ban area due to draught conditions, please feel free to enjoy fireworks. Good old common sense is all that is required. Remember to keep our brave men and women in your thoughts, and may this long weekend be relaxing to all of us.
If that isn't good enough, just think of it as 3 full days without any input from HiFiGator!
Happy Holiday to you all!
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jul 3, 2008 18:09:43 GMT -5
A worthy thing to do is to read the words of the Declaration of Independence over the weekend. Many of you have probably not actually read them.
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Post by WilsonBlvdHoya on Jul 3, 2008 20:32:53 GMT -5
Actually ed, I have. Many times. One of the best things to do in DC on the 4th (much better than schlepping to the Mall with half a million other folks) is to go to the parade in front of the National Archives and listen to a public reading of the Declaration. To close, I'll paste a great link in the Post of an anonymous letter submitted to the paper back on the Bicentennial! Happy 4th to all!!!! www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/27/AR2008062702567.html?hpid=opinionsbox1 |
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Jul 3, 2008 21:55:20 GMT -5
I love visiting the Archives. It's really something special to see those documents in person. The Library of Congress has a great exhibit right now on the creation of the United States, from the Declaration of Independence through the Constitution, to the Bill of Rights. It's pretty amazing how each of the Founding Fathers had a different view of what the new nation would be, and how they managed to somehow craft those diverging views into a coherent set of beliefs and laws that has stood the test of time so well. The Library exhibit has a lot of correspondence between the Founding Fathers that makes their disagreements quite clear. My favorite document at the Archives is Washington's working copy of the Constitution, complete with handwritten revisions: www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/charters_of_freedom_zoom_pages/charters_of_freedom_zoom_6.1.1.html The Library of Congress exhibition also has a couple revised drafts of the Constitution. |
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Post by WilsonBlvdHoya on Jul 4, 2008 5:06:28 GMT -5
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jul 4, 2008 13:05:49 GMT -5
From the Declaration of Independence: "That these United Colonies are, and of right ought to be, free and independent states; that they are absolved from all allegiance, to the British crown, and that all political connection between them and the state of Great Britain is, and ought to be, totally dissolved; and that, as free and independent states, they have full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent states may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor."
Today, it never seems to be noted the Declaration of Independence declared each of the states to be independent with all the rights cited above. Everything is plural except the term United Colonies.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jul 4, 2008 13:53:25 GMT -5
From the Declaration of Independence: "That these United Colonies are, and of right ought to be, free and independent states; that they are absolved from all allegiance, to the British crown, and that all political connection between them and the state of Great Britain is, and ought to be, totally dissolved; and that, as free and independent states, they have full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent states may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor." Today, it never seems to be noted the Declaration of Independence declared each of the states to be independent with all the rights cited above. Everything is plural except the term United Colonies. Yes, but in the intervening years we also had the Constitution of the United States of America and the Civil War, a couple of events that also influenced how States and Nation are related. |
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jul 4, 2008 15:01:52 GMT -5
From the Declaration of Independence: "That these United Colonies are, and of right ought to be, free and independent states; that they are absolved from all allegiance, to the British crown, and that all political connection between them and the state of Great Britain is, and ought to be, totally dissolved; and that, as free and independent states, they have full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent states may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor." Today, it never seems to be noted the Declaration of Independence declared each of the states to be independent with all the rights cited above. Everything is plural except the term United Colonies. Yes, but in the intervening years we also had the Constitution of the United States of America and the Civil War, a couple of events that also influenced how States and Nation are related. Agreed. My point was just what you were referring to, but I wonder how many of us were educated to the fact that the Declaration of Independence was for independence of the states rather than the country. And, then, the Constitution later came along and joined the states into a union of states? |
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jul 4, 2008 16:22:34 GMT -5
Agreed. My point was just what you were referring to, but I wonder how many of us were educated to the fact that the Declaration of Independence was for independence of the states rather than the country. And, then, the Constitution later came along and joined the states into a union of states? "Union of States" Well, I see your point. The "Union of States" became more official and fully determined later. But the colonies/states were "united" (hence, a "union") in 1776 in their declaration of independence from the British. And then they were united in their subsequent war v. Britain. As you know, MASS took the brunt in the beginning, then NY, then the South [OK, I am not a revolutionary war expert, but it was something like that]. They had to "unite" for their mutual benefit and to achieve their mutual and individual goals of ridding themselves of British rule. Once that was done, some 7 years later, the next job was to determine how to formalize the "union" that had already been established. That was where the Articles of Confederation came in. They were designed to establish the Union and the rules for governing. OK, again, I am vague about this. But the Articles "didn't do the trick" and left many unhappy. The Articles were superseded by the Constitution, and almost immediately the Bill of Rights was added. This was when, 1787? But somehow Washington didn't become president until 1789. I guess it took a while since they had to set up the primaries, the network news coverage, what to do without the Iowa caucuses to get started since we didn't have Iowa yet, determining which states should be red and blue so people at home could keep score, organizing the Swift Boat team to sling mud against the war heroes and cast doubt on that claim about the cherry tree, and all the rest. Ah... no wonder it took a couple years for George to be our first pres. Lucky for us he did a vastly better job than the current George, or we wouldn't be celebrating July 4th today! |
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jul 4, 2008 18:13:53 GMT -5
Guess I was wrong again. Thought we could celebrate the 4th and its history without bashing Bush. Live and learn.
Another note: even in the Civil War in the 1860s we were still very much a loosely connected group of states and that is why Lee's army was the Army of Northern Virginia, to mention but one. It was very difficult, for instance, for General Grant to exercise complete authority over the Union forces because he was dealing with semi-independent generals who, at times, had other thoughts on how to use their troops.
How do I know all this stuff? I was there!!!!!!!
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Jul 4, 2008 19:43:31 GMT -5
The Constitution was signed in 1787, but it still had to be ratified by at least 9 out of the 13 states. New Hampshire was the 9th state to sign, in mid-1788. Washington was elected later in 1788 and inaugurated in 1789.
The Articles of Confederation were adopted in 1777, early in the Revolution. Cornwallis surrendered at Yorktown in 1781, and Britain recognized the United States' independence in 1783. The Articles quickly proved to be badly flawed, as the central government was basically powerless. There was no executive authority, the central government had no control over its own income, and each state had veto power over any change to the Articles.
The Constitution built on the lessons of the Articles and created a stronger central government with an executive, although it was not nearly as powerful as it is today. Several states were wary of a stronger central government, since they had just rebelled against one (the British). In order to get those states' support for the new Constitution, the Founding Fathers added a Bill of Rights to ensure that the states and individuals were adequately protected from the central government.
I really recommend that those of you in DC check out the Library of Congress' exhibition, since it explains the whole process that took us from the Declaration of Independence to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jul 4, 2008 20:08:40 GMT -5
Guess I was wrong again. Thought we could celebrate the 4th and its history without bashing Bush. Live and learn. It is very difficult to think about the men who wrote and signed the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and did so much to build this country and defend it through two + centuries without thinking about the way the current administration has abused the constitution and cynically cited "democracy" as a reason to start wars, invade countries and thoroughly trash the reputation of the USA around the world, not to mention causing death and destruction to Americans and others alike. Stating one's views is not only a right and a privilege guaranteed by the first amendment of the Constitution, it is a responsibility of citizenship. |
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hoya4ever
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Post by hoya4ever on Jul 5, 2008 11:40:47 GMT -5
Ah, but that last sentence of yours might mean that everyone should be made to express their views and vote.
Gotta love the constitution, so much room for debate.
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