Serious season recap and look forward...

[paranoia2]

The Georgetown basketball program was returned to prominence by JT3 and Jonathan Wallace G, Tyler Crawford G, Jeff Green F and Roy Hibbert C. This group made two great tourney runs. One ended a Darrel Owens three away from a likely Final Four and the other ended in the Final Four. The four players turned the program around and this season the remaining seniors clearly missed the dynamic play and leadership of Jeff Green. Jeff did so many things well and always made serious game changing plays. Hibbert and Wallace are great in the own way but neither had that ability to get the ball and create something on their own from the perimeter or on the block. Mixing in talented freshmen and players with expanded roles simply could not make up for losing Green. Last year Jeff posted up as much as Roy. This season nobody could post but Roy. Dajuan was also stuck playing the four and often times expended tons of energy and fouls down low. One reason we reached the final four was the luxury of a 6'8" small forward. This season our Hoyas were small and out muscled on the boards in big games. John Turner would have looked good on this years team.
Next year can be great. Not having a slow and huge post player will make the defense more suffocating (see first half Davidson with Macklin's foot speed on switches) and promote more movement on offense. I hope Braswell is coming and eligible because having a bigger body could help. Macklin is thin and Sims is too. IMO Dajuan needs to be a 3 which also leads to the issue of Freeman's minutes with Wright, Clark, Rivers and Sapp vying for time. Austin is too good not to play but having a small lineup can hurt.
I hope Jessie Sapp takes next year's team by the throat and leads with his toughness. I hope JT3 maximizes the strengths of the team and blasts some teams out of the gym. JT3 had to dance with the guys that got him there but now that group has left and the time has come to maximize the talents of Jessie, Dajuan, Austin and Chris Wright and the talented freshmen.

[royski]

Our defense will be worse next year. Roy and Pat were much bigger factors on the defensive end than on the offensive end, which as actually saying a lot. They were also probably our 2 best all around defenders, and DEFINATELY two of the top 3 with Rivers.

[HoyaChris]

There simply is not a lot of room for our defense to be better. According to Pomeroy we were #8 overall on defense, we led the nation in effective field goal defense and we were outstanding against both the 2 point shot (3rd in the nation) and the 3 point shot (4th in the nation).

Our defense was only hampered by a low rate of turning the opposition over (280th) and mediocre defensive rebounding (173rd). Of course, if we had turned the opposition over much more and rebounded better, we would have been off the charts defensively.

While our defense was demonstrably outstanding, one significant opportunity will be to get more offense from our defense, because a quicker team shouold generate more steals and better defensive rebounding might generate more run outs.

[GIGAFAN99]

Agreed. Our halfcourt defense couldn't get much better compared to this year simply because Roy altered everything in the lane.

But the other defenses in the top ten didn't have Roy. That sounds like a silly statement but let's face it, you can play very good defense without a 7'2 center. With the athletic ability all over the floor next year, we have a good chance of not suffering too much of a drop-off.

[HometownHoya]

I'm not sure I think that our faster, quicker guards will allow us to create more Turnovers and on our switches, opposing guards getting complacent having a C or PF guarding them will allow them to get more steals (see Vernon's steal in the Davidson game). As far as rebound goes, it will be a concern but hopefully not a big one and we can over-come.

[idhoya]

GU will definitely be quicker, especially on switches. The guys coming in all excel on defense. They are all long and athletic. They are also exceptional rebounders. Where I think GU will suffer a little is @ the 3 behind dajuan. I guess we'll have to wait til Hollis gets to town for a true, slashing 3.

[aggypryd]

What’s everyone’s take on Vernon Macklin’s role for next season? I saw flashes of brilliance in his game. He seems to be getting his offensive moves together. Do you think that III’s system could be stifling his basketball instincts or will he benefit in the long-run?

I’m a fan of Vernon…just hoping he can start putting it all together.

[GIGAFAN99]

Mar 28, 2008 10:07:02 GMT -5 aggypryd said:

What’s everyone’s take on Vernon Macklin’s role for next season? I saw flashes of brilliance in his game. He seems to be getting his offensive moves together. Do you think that III’s system could be stifling his basketball instincts or will he benefit in the long-run?

I’m a fan of Vernon…just hoping he can start putting it all together.

It's funny with Vern because Roy was such an underrated (Guibunda will start ahead of him) project and Vern was such an overrated (will start over a 2nd-team all-Big East center) project that I think it clouds our judgement on him.

He's developed some nice post moves. He's figured out his hook shot. He's a good defensive player now.

He really has to figure out rebounding and FT shooting. But he's come a long way and will be helped by the Hoyas gaining all-around quickness as he's not the same type of post player that Roy was, but one that wants space and not to feel the defender.

Vern can be very good for this team but he should bulk up, play with Deke and Zo, whatever he has to do to get better on the glass.

[SFHoya99]

That last line is my thing with Vern. I think he's become a pretty darn good defender -- especially if you play him on the wing of a zone. He's a decent shotblocker -- his block rate puts him near the Top 100 if he played enough minutes (significantly better than Jeff Green's or Pat's if you can believe that).

And I can live with the fact that he's a mid-90s Hoya who will miss free throws, layups, dunks and probably commit a few lane violations. I mean, I'd rather he didn't, but I could live with it, if he was also like a mid-90s Hoya in his rebounding.

I think we need to get Jerome down here -- and I realize Rome probably can't actually play anymore -- but Vernon Macklin could be Jerome Williams minus the handle. I just don't get why Vernon can't rebound? Can he not jump off a flat foot? Because every once in a while you see him sky. He's a decent offensive rebounder (not great by any means) but defensively he's getting outrebounded by our guards.

[RDF]

I'd rather have quickness/speed for defense then size. Speed never takes a night off--and you can't prepare for it--it can also CREATE offense with getting points off of turnovers--something Georgetown has been awful at doing for a long time now. We saw more "easy" hoops created off defense in the BET/NCAA from Chris Wright's return then we did an entire Big East season.

Macklin is vastly improved. After watching Duke Crews last night--and realizing both kids were "transition game frontcourt players" and many thought Macklin made a mistake coming to Georgetown--you notice how improved Macklin is compared to Crews who looks same as he did as a HS Senior. Macklin now has post moves, hooks, and an understanding of halfcourt basketball--which will aid him as we see his athleticism/speed utilized more with a faster pace which will--NEEDS to be utilized with personnel on the future teams. Macklin can pass as well--and his two biggest needs of improvement--consistent rebounding and improved FT shooting. The Davidson game showed he can improve upon this--although he shot 50%--it was improved over his season and his shot was much better looking then at times throughout the season. His defense is excellent on the perimeter/hedging and he can recover/block some shots after showing at top of key.

I'm most interested in seeing how the coaching staff adjusts the style of play. You adjust to your roster-not make them adjust to you. There is no reason to play the same approach as we've seen the past 4 years. If this team doesn't run/play at a faster pace--they are limiting their talent/advantage. Defensively--they won't have a 7'2 presence, but they should improve rebounding, shot blocking, and scoring off defense. For all of the talk of Roy's presence--you could argue that Macklin gave Dajuan Blair more problems in Pitt game, defense was better against Davidson with Macklin in 1st Half, and Nova game in BET was superior as well. Offensively is where Hibbert will be missed most--his ability to score in post and against any big was a sure two points--now that is gone. However--III is used to not having a true center so this should open draw/kick game and more slashing/driving to hoop, so we'll have to wait and see.

[SFHoya99]

Re: Serious season recap and look forward...
« Reply #9 Today at 9:19 »

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I'd rather have quickness/speed for defense then size. Speed never takes a night off--and you can't prepare for it--it can also CREATE offense with getting points off of turnovers--something Georgetown has been awful at doing for a long time now. We saw more "easy" hoops created off defense in the BET/NCAA from Chris Wright's return then we did an entire Big East season.

I'd rather have both. Easy to say, of course. I do agree we will probably force more turnovers next -- or should try to because the rest of the D might not be as good.

Where I disagree with you is that 3-5 inches that players like Sims, Monroe and especially Macklin (who is the 5 inches) give up to Roy makes an immense difference, especially at the college level.

Roy doesn't have to jump to be a defensive presence. He doesn't have to commit. It's a huge advantage and we'll see a lot more fouls down low from players like Monroe, Macklin and Sims because to get the same alteration of opposing shots, they're gonna have to jump sometimes. Where a guy like Macklin gave Blair some trouble on offense, I think we won't have as easy a time shutting down a Harangody, who just couldn't alter his shot enough.

I agree with you about people who say Mack should have gone elsewhere beign wrong unless they mean down a level, but Crews with his illness may be a bad comp (solely b/c of the illness).

I curious as to why you think we'll be a better rebounding team. No doubt Monroe and Sims have better lateral movement than Roy, but neither are particularly strong -- until they bulk up get used to seeing the ball ripped from them -- and Macklin, despite all his quickness has not proven to be a good rebounder at all.

Lastly, I agree with you that next year the pace should move a bit faster. Not sure how I feel about the D -- of two minds -- but Chris Wright himself dictates a faster pace.

[mrsixer123]

i am more than willing to sacrifice some of our half court D for more scoring and more full court pressure. we simply will not win another title with the way our O disappeared in large stretches this season. imo, we need to open up things on O for easier scoring chances. teams have caught up to our back door cuts, and now we need to counter their counter punch.

finally, is it really worth having a dominate 7 footer in college anymore with the way the officials have no clue about how to officiate post play, and the way guards simply arent taught how to effectively get them the ball?

[SFHoya99]

Mar 28, 2008 12:53:17 GMT -5 mrsixer123 said:

i am more than willing to sacrifice some of our half court D for more scoring and more full court pressure. we simply will not win another title with the way our O disappeared in large stretches this season. imo, we need to open up things on O for easier scoring chances. teams have caught up to our back door cuts, and now we need to counter their counter punch

In five of our six losses, it was a defensive breakdown that cost us the game, not an offensive one.

Memphis: 102 Offensive Efficiency / 123 Defensive
Pitt: 101/116
Louisville: 86/99
Cuse: 108/119
Pitt: 101/115
Davidson: 113/120

We lost the game versus the Ville on offense. Everything else was a complete and utter defensive breakdown, usually because of poor defensive rebounding or fouling.

[RDF]

Duke Crews "illness" was not as serious as some of his off the court issues and I'll leave it at that. If you want to PM me on the topic, I'll let you know the real story. As for Crews game-what does he do now that he didn't do? Look at Macklin--see the difference? That was/is the point. You can see improvement and things to help a player's game already in one player--who was told to "stay away" while the other chose a program that "fits" his style and he's not improved in any area.

As for the improved rebounding. The quickness helps your entire team. Instead of seeing Austin Freeman having to rotate to defend the basket when Roy was hedging--you can have Vernon Macklin hedging--and Greg Monroe/Henry Sims/Chris Braswell at "home" and it doesn't give the offense a free hoop/dunk/foul. Guys aren't scrambling all over--and the size Hoyas will have is more mobile--which means more rebounds out of their area--which was/is Roy's biggest weakness as a player. Add to that-I'd say that Summers was team's best rebounder by latter stage of season, and Sapp/Wright/Rivers/Clark are all strong rebounding guards.

The problem with Hoyas team this past season--Macklin had to be on bench to protect Roy, Pat/Summers had to split time because you couldn't get into foul trouble with both or the team got very small. With added size-you can play bigger team--and with the added size (Macklin/Monroe/Summers for instance) you don't sacrifice any athleticism.

Against Pitt--Macklin gave Blair problems in the first game. His quickness bothered him. Harangody is a tough cover--he gave Thabeet fits in their 2nd game this year--so it's not as if he won't be a tough cover anyways. We never saw him against Roy a second time--but we saw ND against GU 2 years ago in BET and that game was without Roy for the most part. When you have an incoming frontline of 6'11, 6'10, and 6'9 coming in--that is plenty big enough to throw various looks at a guy. 7'2 people don't come along very often--so "replacing" Roy's size--that wasn't going to happen but you bring in a huge frontline--and while they are thin, they are also quicker, and speed/quickness is better for team defense.

Defensive FG % is a pretty stat to have-but your approach on offense also influences the numbers. I'd rather see defensive FG% increase by a few and see Hoyas offensive numbers and fastbreak/transition points increase--meaning the defense is leading to offense--then seeing the style we saw most of this season--grind it out games where the defense was spectacular but games were up for grabs because the team couldn't score/protect the ball on other end.

One key to rebounding numbers--if Braswell gets in--he'll be best natural rebounder this program has had in a LONG time. He really gets after the ball on glass. Monroe has taken a beating the past few days/months--but he'll be a different player at GU--but can't prove that until he does it--so understand the concern, Macklin--I think he'll show why III called him most improved this upcoming year. It will also be interesting to see if Macklin is one of those players who just performs better due to starting. Any game he got a lot of minutes-he showed well. It's easier to play when you know you will be out there no matter what. It's not the easiest thing to come off the bench and produce--especially when you are used to being a starter/getting major minutes. PE JR was a rarity--he could do this-Crawford could do this---others can't or don't do it as well.

I understand the questions/concern--but I just think next year's team has a chance to be a lot better then many think. I could be a year off--but just think it's never a bad thing to get quicker/more athletic as a team--especially when you aren't trading skill/offensive talent. When you make opposing teams work on defensive end--it makes your defense a lot more effective as well. When teams can "rest" on defense it makes your offense a lot easier to defend--which we saw in regular season BE play.

[SFHoya99]

• I'll trust you on Crews -- don't need to know. I wasn't disgareeing with your point. Actually, I 100% agree -- I think most of these kids who "love to run" should go to schools which don't. They aren't going to learn to fast break that much better but reality is in the NBA, the best teams win in the half court (even the ones that run). Anyone can run and dunk but why not learn what you can't do?
  
  
• I agree on your point on quickness. My disagreement isn't that it doesn't help -- it's that the team will be more or less young and weak physically. For all his quickness, Macklin doesn't rebound well - I'm clueless why. Monroe boxes out well, but he's got long, skinny arms which means until he bulks up, he's going to lose quite a few to stronger players. Same with Sims. The two times I've seen Braswell he was awesome on the glass, but he's got to get here and get PT.
  
  
• We'll have to agree to disagree on the defense. I like what Chris will bring, and as much as I love Jon, that switch out will make our perimeter defenders better. The issue for me will be lack of strength, defensive knowledge and familiarity down low -- our footwork will be worse, our position D worse and the players will need to learn where to help. Macklin's been around, but with three frosh, there's a lot of learning down low. (Which is one reason I suspect Summers at the 4).
  
  
• I don't often get inside info, but I did hear, about fourth-hand, that the staff expects us to be better offensively next year but worse defensively. They put a lot of stock into Hibbert's impact, and that's partially driving my opinion. I do agree we will likely have a flashier defense next year, but I bet we give up more points. Hopefully, Chris plus Monroe plus reduced turnovers can make up those points.
  
  

[aggypryd]

I think we’ll be better ‘on the ball’, but I think our interior ‘D’ takes a serious hit.

Like someone mentioned earlier in this thread, we need someone whose primary purpose is to BEAST on the boards (Someone like a Jerome Williams).

Our offense creates a lot of spacing, but it doesn’t allow great positioning for offensive boards. Most teams that run our type of offense don’t do well on the offensive glass. But we should not be getting killed on the defensive glass. Pittsburgh got too many offensive boards against us.

Our inexperience in the front-court is going to make for some frustrating moments for fans, but I think we grab a 4th or 5th seed and make it to the 2nd round…Sweet 16 at the absolute best.

[RDF]

SF and anyone else concerned-I understand it and it could very well turn out that way. I'm just providing some hope and some positives of why I think it COULD be different. Believe me, I understand what you are saying and you guys all make valid/strong/accurate points.

One reason our bigs don't have great rebounding numbers--the fact they are constantly chasing/hedging and then have to run back into paint after ball is moved--immediately you are out of position for a defensive rebound. Macklin isn't as strong as a Harangody or Blair--but I think he'll rebound the ball better this year with some help upfront and fact he's getting more minutes. I mean some games he'd have 3/4 boards in 6-7 minutes and Roy would have 5-6 boards in 28-30 minutes. A lot of the Macklin criticism is coming from his pedigree/hype prior to coming to Georgetown--and as a fan who loved his signing and still sees a lot in him--I never thought he'd be a 1 and done type of player, so his progress hasn't shocked me. It's been slower then expected--but I've seen vast improvements in his offensive post skills--which in HS were dunking/layups ala Crews.

Don't discount the youth of team next year. Young teams play better defense when they score--any team does--but especially young guys. When you can score points--it lifts the entire team. Guys make more of an effort for stops/rebounds because they know they are going to be rewarded on other end--and this is where transition basketball is more important.

This is why I said--I'll sacrifice some defensive statistical numbers for increased numbers in areas like; fastbreak pts, seeing opponents turnovers increase, if your opponent is shooting 60% from field and 50% from 3pt area you can still win--if you cause them to turn the ball over 20 or more times. We learned that first hand. Calls or not--that is proof you can win without great statistical defensive numbers. It's more important to get some offense out of your defense and to get key stops then to hold someone down but not be able to score.

Another thing--with improved offensive talent/more speed at guard/more penetration--it should get Hoyas to foul line more. More FTA should help them score and we've seen how important on both ends it is to have a team in foul trouble/be in the penalty.

The halfcourt defense won't be as good initially--but there isn't much of a reason for Hoyas to play a halfcourt game with the change in personnel. At least not in a deliberate manner. By end of year-this could be a very good halfcourt defensive team--more pressure/speed/quickness on perimeter across the board--more size/athleticism down low. Early in year--I agree--we'll see some lapses. If I were to pick one end I'd prefer to be better--it's offensive end. You can play zone, you can get stops if other team can't shoot, but you can't score the ball without talent--look at some of the games where Hoyas opponents hung around simply due to inferior Hoya offense.

Program is just building--and we're all disappointed--but so many NON-GU fans think we're a "flash in pan" and done since Hibbert, Wallace, etc.. are gone--when that is just the oppositie. They helped BUILD something--and now the tradition/expectations are set--it's time for the next crew to focus on getting the next steps accomplished and keeping it there.