DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Feb 15, 2008 11:42:03 GMT -5
I never said Belichick did not admit he broke a rule. I never said he should not have been fined for it. I believe it is ludicrous that Arlen Specter, an Eagles fan who frequently calls Philly sports talk radio, is wasting valuable time he could be spending solving actual problems for his constituents on this. Then again, perhaps this indicates that a significant bulk of his constituents are inveterate gamblers. The high and mighty, every-other-team's-coaching-staff-is-lily-white-and-pure self-righteous the-world-is-about-to-end indignation is a tad over the top though.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2008 11:50:14 GMT -5
I never said Belichick did not admit he broke a rule. I never said he should not have been fined for it. I believe it is ludicrous that Arlen Specter, an Eagles fan who frequently calls Philly sports talk radio, is wasting valuable time he could be spending solving actual problems for his consituents on this. Then again, perhaps this indicates that a significant bulk of his constituents are inveterate gamblers. The high and mighty, every-other-team's-coaching-staff-is-lily-white-and-pure self-righteous the-world-is-about-to-end indignation is a tad over the top though. While I believe Congress has the right to investigate the situation for the reasons I mentioned prior, I agree Specter is HARDLY the right man for the job. Much in the way a liar and scumbag like McNamee is hardly the ideal witness to slam the door on Clemens, Specter is hardly the ideal investigator to be going after Belichick and company. On that we're in agreement.
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guru
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Post by guru on Feb 15, 2008 11:52:06 GMT -5
I never said Belichick did not admit he broke a rule. I never said he should not have been fined for it. I believe it is ludicrous that Arlen Specter, an Eagles fan who frequently calls Philly sports talk radio, is wasting valuable time he could be spending solving actual problems for his consituents on this. Then again, perhaps this indicates that a significant bulk of his constituents are inveterate gamblers. The high and mighty, every-other-team's-coaching-staff-is-lily-white-and-pure self-righteous the-world-is-about-to-end indignation is a tad over the top though. Seems like your reaction is a little over the top as well. Or are a lot of people proclaiming that every other coach is lily white or that the Pats admitted cheating signals the apocalypse? I don't think so. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter. But in the world of pro football, it matters a great deal. The Patriots are cheaters. It's a big deal, and Belichick is in big trouble, as he should be. Oh, and if Robert Kraft had all the "class" that the Pats-friendly media likes to attribute to him, Belichick would be fired already.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Feb 15, 2008 12:05:47 GMT -5
guru - Buffalo is reacting as if this is the apocalypse for the NFL and if Buffalo can go all filibuster on us, so can I ...in that spirit, I give you this link to the reaction of the average Patriots fan to the end of the season: Finally, about halfway through this you'll hear about at least one other NFL coach who has done the same thing: www.wfan.com/topic/play_window.php?audioType=Episode&audioId=1036042
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guru
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Post by guru on Feb 15, 2008 12:25:41 GMT -5
guru - Buffalo is reacting as if this is the apocalypse for the NFL and if Buffalo can go all filibuster on us, so can I ...in that spirit, I give you this link to the reaction of the average Patriots fan to the end of the season: Finally, about halfway through this you'll hear about at least one other NFL coach who has done the same thing: www.wfan.com/topic/play_window.php?audioType=Episode&audioId=1036042Can't listen right now, but is there evidence of cheating or just conjecture? As far as I know, Belichick is the only coach who has been caught cheating, and that changes the equation.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Feb 15, 2008 12:29:03 GMT -5
Jimmy Johnson on Mike and the Mad Dog saying he taped signals too as did others.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Feb 15, 2008 13:25:09 GMT -5
The anti-trust angle is at least a legitimate underpinning for the Congressional involvement, but it is just a decoy for Specter. You are kidding yourself if you think there is some sort of noble-minded Congressional groundswell to go after the NFL on this. You really think that this is about Arlen Specter, White Knight and Protectorate of the People, investigating a cover-up because he wants to ensure that the NFL is fairly regulated? Anyway, sure, let Congress regulate the NFL (although many a true conservative would not agree with this). However, to me, this issue just does rise to something that warrants a Congressional investigation. Who is not getting a fair shake here? The NFL took action and doled out its fines. I really don’t want to be painted into a corner defending the NFL or the Pats here, but I don’t understand why a Congressional Investigation is required.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Feb 15, 2008 13:28:10 GMT -5
This is such a non-issue in my mind, at least as government goes. Videotaping is not against the law. It is against the rules. There is a big difference. If a player hides a shank in his uniform and gauges another player with it during the game, then obviously a crime has been committed and the authorities have both the right and obligation to take over the situation. But this is NOT a governmental issue. Filo is dead on when he made that point. Understand I am not acquiting the Pats or Belichik in any way, just pointing out that wasting tax dollars is certainly the wrong path to choose. If the NFL wants to do its own investigation and decides to fine the Pats $10 million, fine. That is within their authority as the teams are "under" the NFL's power. If they choose to strip the Super Bowl trophies from the Pats for certain years, then fine. That is also within their rights. But this idea that it is government's job to step in and do all this investigating under the guise of providing a fair product to the public is absolutly excessive in the very least.
As to whomever it was that asked "how much did these hearings cost?" ... I can only say that I don't know. But in cases like this you will often hear the people who do have access to the numbers come up with a figure by taking a pro-rated proportion of all of the associated costs.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Feb 15, 2008 13:51:59 GMT -5
This is clearly Arlen Specter acting as bag man forthe Roberts brothers in their Comcast/NFL war.
But what do you expect from the man who gave you the magic bullet?
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Feb 15, 2008 13:59:29 GMT -5
This is clearly Arlen Specter acting as bag man forthe Roberts brothers in their Comcast/NFL war. Bingo.
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Post by dajuan on Feb 15, 2008 14:57:30 GMT -5
This is clearly Arlen Specter acting as bag man forthe Roberts brothers in their Comcast/NFL war. Bingo. Maybe so, maybe Arlen Specter's motives are not true. I don't know, so I will take him at his word and believe that he is trying to understand why Goodell decided to destroy tapes that may have proved that the Patriots broke the rules of a game (you're right, they didn't break a law) but if they did break the rules and if the NFL did cover it up, then the NFL and the Pats have violated the right to a fair contest that football alleges to grant its players and fans. And you're right, this whole issue should have been handled internally by the NFL, but it appears that the NFL tried to sweep it under the rug rather than publicly announcing what the videotapes showed and what steps (if any) were being taken against the Patriots. Since the NFL tried to avoid a story rather than reassuring its employees and fans of the integrity of the game, Senator Specter stepped in and started asking questions that many people asked themselves, like 'Why did they destroy the tapes?' or 'What did the tapes show?' Again, perhaps Senator Specter has ulterior motives, but I would say he's certainly within his rights to ask these questions publicly.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Feb 18, 2008 11:37:10 GMT -5
Did it ever occur to you that the tapes caught other teams filming the Pats sidelines? Or in other words, perhaps the tapes revealed that spygate was not a Patriots-issue but an NFL-wide issue and it was in the best interest of the NFL to keep it a Patriots-issue.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Feb 18, 2008 23:36:33 GMT -5
If taping didn't help--coaches wouldn't waste time doing it and certainly not for an extended period of time. I think part of the blame goes on the teams they are facing-you should change your signals if they are that easy to break down-but I also don't believe that isn't a "big deal". A guy like Belichick isn't going to keep doing something that isn't giving him something.
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Post by HoyaTejano on Feb 24, 2008 16:42:28 GMT -5
The issue to me is not the taping. The issue is very much the possibility that the Pats had the ability to interfere and jam other teams' signals. This goes from merely espionage to a new level -- SIGINT and ELINT suppression. If the NFL and/or a future investigation uncovers this, it will be a fascinating and controversial angle. Did the Patriots develop and then field a "Prowler" or "Growler" package? If so, how did they deploy and conceal it?
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Feb 24, 2008 23:46:03 GMT -5
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Feb 25, 2008 0:53:09 GMT -5
It's just ridiculous for the government to get involved in something like this.
Take a look at the real spying scandal from last year (the one in F1 racing). That scandal involved teams owned and at least partially run by three huge international corporations (Renault, Mercedes, and FIAT). One team got hit with a $100 million fine. That's not a typo - 100,000,000 US dollars. Criminal laws were allegedly broken, and one of the main players in the scandal is facing criminal charges in Italy while a co-conspirator is facing a civil suit in England. Allegations of official favoritism, personal vendettas, mafia-like tactics, and police interference in the sport flew back and forth.
Yet in all this chaos, you never heard a word on the subject from a British MP or an Italian politician. You didn't see the FIA bosses being hauled before the EU to "discuss" what was happening in their sport. For once the Europeans weren't wasting tax dollars on useless nonsense.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Feb 26, 2008 12:58:20 GMT -5
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Feb 26, 2008 13:24:50 GMT -5
Shanahan all but admitted during the initial scandal that he had used numerous methods to steal signals in the past. Add that to the fact he has also admitted that the team intentionally broke salary cap rules during the two Elway championships...
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on May 7, 2008 23:12:24 GMT -5
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moe09
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Post by moe09 on May 8, 2008 7:36:53 GMT -5
It's just ridiculous for the government to get involved in something like this. Take a look at the real spying scandal from last year (the one in F1 racing). That scandal involved teams owned and at least partially run by three huge international corporations (Renault, Mercedes, and FIAT). One team got hit with a $100 million fine. That's not a typo - 100,000,000 US dollars. Criminal laws were allegedly broken, and one of the main players in the scandal is facing criminal charges in Italy while a co-conspirator is facing a civil suit in England. Allegations of official favoritism, personal vendettas, mafia-like tactics, and police interference in the sport flew back and forth. Yet in all this chaos, you never heard a word on the subject from a British MP or an Italian politician. You didn't see the FIA bosses being hauled before the EU to "discuss" what was happening in their sport. For once the Europeans weren't wasting tax dollars on useless nonsense. So, if I understand you correctly, stig, you're saying that in a scandal in which "criminal charges" were allegedly broken, "mafia-like" tactics were claimed to be used, and "police interference" occurred, the government shouldn't be involved? Are you nuts or just on drugs? If you ever run for political office I'm sure you've got Tony Soprano's vote. Secondly, dan, just because one lowly video assistant didn't have "the smoking gun" of the Super Bowl recordings doesn't mean they don't exist. I'm not saying they do exist, but you can't just write it off because some assistant who Belichick didn't even know doesn't have them. If anything, the question that should be put forth is: what more could there be? Did the Patriots turn in all of the tapes? , I know I wouldn't if I were them. "Sure, that's all of them..." Who's checking to make sure that this didn't happen? Some guy at the bottom rung of the ladder had a tape of the 2002 AFC Championship game? I'm curious what Walsh has to say about the taping practices at this point. That could be where the real gold is. At this point the mystery only deepens, and I think we're far from saying "oh, there's no smoking gun, everyone can go home now."
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