Specter: Belichick Was Taping Since 2000

[SFOHoya]

tinyurl.com/224xtm

This should get interesting. Wonder if they'll be forced to forfeit all Super Bowls during that era. ;D

[Cambridge]

Eagles fans are all the same, whether they're in office or sitting on the stoop.

[Filo]

Our tax dollars hard at work. Just wonderful.

[kghoya]

i'm just glad they didn't win the super bowl

[SDHoya]

Feb 13, 2008 22:52:14 GMT -5 Filo said:

Our tax dollars hard at work. Just wonderful.

Seriously, since when do we have a Ministry of Sport in this country? If the NFL, MLB and all the rest want to ressurect their images, let them figure it out themselves.

[hifigator]

Feb 13, 2008 22:52:14 GMT -5 Filo said:

Our tax dollars hard at work. Just wonderful.

On that we can agree. I have been hammering that point home on all of our local shows. I know this is the season of politics and I know that most sports shows want to divorce sports from politics, but I just couldn't sit idly by. I am sick and tired of government getting involved in all of these areas that it has no business. I am not in any way advocating steroids, and I see to a degree the long term benefits of government essentially forcing baseball to a much stauncher policy. But watching all of our money wasted on grand juries and hearings about who said what and whether or not this or that person took this or that particular substance is just painful to watch. I know the expense pales in comparison to military spending and welfare for example, but still. If we had all the money wasted on that steroid nonsense -- and it ain't over yet! -- and wouldn't waste any on thins spygate rubbish, then I am positive we could find literally hundreds of far more worthwhile projects to spend the money on.

[Boz]

I disagree. Do I think that there are more important things for Congress to focus on? Of course, absolutely.

And if you're dissatisfied with their work in those areas, by all means, you should tell them you think so (which I believe Americans are pretty good at doing).

But to suggest that they can't or shouldn't be doing this as well, I don't buy that. What, can't Congress walk and chew gum at the same time? (Wait, don't answer that.)

I have to multi-task, Congress should be able to do so as well.

And Congress always gets involved in these sorts of things. They have investigated television shows, the music industry, the video game industry and many more. These are multi-billion dollar businesses that affect the lives of millions of Americans, either directly or indirectly. Yes, it is just sports, or entertainment or whatever. It is nowhere near as important as foreign policy or Social Security or health care, etc. But that doesn't mean that Congress has no interest in making sure they are providing an honest product, or that proper safeguards are in place related to that industry.

It's fairly simple. If MLB or the NFL didn't want Congress meddling in their affairs then Selig and Goodell (and now it looks like Tagliabue too) should have done their jobs when they had the chance. Why didn't Congress get involved in the NBA? Because David Stern ran a proper investigation and took the proper actions related to his officials. Selig has bungled steroids for years, and Goodell clearly wanted to sweep the whole cheating/taping issue under the rug. Well, guess what? Now Capitol Hill is involved, you dumbasses. I say good!

Oh, and I can think of about a thousand and one other things that Congress or government agencies waste our taxpayer money on that are much more trivial than this.

[SDHoya]

Boz, clearly there are other wasteful things that the government does. The solution then is not to say, "Oh well, at least its not as bad as that other thing", the solution is to get government out of all areas that they don't belong. These investigations of the NFL and MLB are just one example of an area that government was never intended to oversee or manage.

If the NFL and MLB violate the law and in the process injure (physically or financially) millions of Americans, then Congress has a right to step in. But it is unlikely that either organization participated in illegal activities (perhaps individuals did, and perhaps there was a culture that did not discourage certain behaviour, but this is hardly illegal) and more importantly, neither organization actually damaged the lives of Americans. When Enron went kaput, millions of Americans were actually affected, when Barry Bonds was accused of steriod use, millions of Americans expressed that they would be unhappy if he broke Hank Aaron's record. There is an important difference here. Disappointment or anger do not equate with actual injury.

It is the responsibility of the MLB and NFL to clean themselves up, not rely on government to do so. If they don't, then people will lose confidence in their organization, which will shortly thereafter be reflected in terms of reduced ticket and merchandise sales. Therefore, there is heavy incentive to make things better. Congress should allow that lever to play its role, instead of inserting themselves in order to get some face time on CNN.

[Deleted]

Feb 14, 2008 16:53:57 GMT -5 SDHoya said:

Disappointment or anger do not equate with actual injury.

Ahhhhh, but gambling losses do. And the gambling industry has some powerful lobbyists.

[Boz]

Just to be clear, when I said "you dumbasses," I was referring to Selig and Goodell, not to anyone on the board who was arguing that Congress shouldn't be looking into this.

Well, OK, except maybe hifi. ;D

That's cool. I think Congress is within its scope, rights, mandate, whatever to investigate these leagues, particularly since they haven't done a good enough job themselves. Others don't feel that way. I'm OK with that.

(I will agree on one point. If that mess that is Sarbanes-Oxley is the result of Congress investigating Enron, I shudder to think what they'll come up with for sports. )

[Madgesdiq]

I wish Congress would reopen the Ray Lewis murder investigation.

Two dead bodies, no convictions.

Multi million dollar cash settlements on the civil side.

[hifigator]

If there is surplus budget, then you could argue that maybe these peripheral topics should be addressed by congress. But with major unresolved issues of conflict like immigration, terrorism and international affairs in such a mess, I just don't think we are remotely near that point. In all honesty, that is still my biggest reservation of McCain. In my opinion he has a history of misplaced priorities. It isn't so much that I disagree with this or that policy, but rather that there are so many more important things that he should be focused on. As a Senator from Arizona, immigration should have been #1 on his list. Sure, he eventually cosponsored the immigration bill. But it is a watered down, essentially toothless one with little impact. In the meantime, he was consumed with steroids in baseball and cracking down on those who play internet poker and the financial institutions which make it available. Sorry, that isn't and shouldn't be at the top of the list, regardless of which side of the issue you are on.

[dajuan]

Feb 14, 2008 17:36:23 GMT -5 hifigator said:

If there is surplus budget, then you could argue that maybe these peripheral topics should be addressed by congress. But with major unresolved issues of conflict like immigration, terrorism and international affairs in such a mess, I just don't think we are remotely near that point. In all honesty, that is still my biggest reservation of McCain. In my opinion he has a history of misplaced priorities. It isn't so much that I disagree with this or that policy, but rather that there are so many more important things that he should be focused on. As a Senator from Arizona, immigration should have been #1 on his list. Sure, he eventually cosponsored the immigration bill. But it is a watered down, essentially toothless one with little impact. In the meantime, he was consumed with steroids in baseball and cracking down on those who play internet poker and the financial institutions which make it available. Sorry, that isn't and shouldn't be at the top of the list, regardless of which side of the issue you are on.

Boz is quite right. I never understand this whole logic that Congress must focus on THE most pressing issue of the day exclusively. Many congressmen are working very hard on those issues. Henry Waxman, however, held a hearing of his Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. It's not as though all 435 Congressmen stopped working for the day to listen to Roger Clemens and Brian McNamee squabble. There were maybe a dozen representatives who spent a couple hours of time in the room. Meanwhile, Arlen Specter asked Roger Goodell a perfectly reasonable question, "Why did you destroy tapes that may have proven that the Patriots cheated fans of the NFL out of a fair contest?" It's not like these Committees holding hearings on fairness in sports, issues that are within their purview, is preventing Social Security reform from being passed or the War in Iraq from being won.

It is this type of 'Congress should focus on stuff that really matters instead of sports' logic that is only espoused by those who don't understand how Congress works. How much money did this waste? Give me a calculation. What were the costs of doing this business that would not have been incurred if the Congressmen or Senators spent the time meeting with constituents in their offices or placing fundraising or political phone calls?

If you really want to get upset about something, I'd complain that all of the news and sports networks covered these hearings exclusively all day. Why not complain about your hard earned advertising revenue being wasted by these networks on issues that are only mildly interesting.

[Filo]

No, the 'Congress should focus on stuff that really matters instead of sports' logic is espoused by those who hold onto the basic principle that the federal government should be scaled down and should not getting involved in so many of the issues that it currently is involved in. These relativistic arguments are merely noise. I don't need to give you a calculation if all I am saying is that there is no reason for the federal government to get involved in an issue like whether the Patriots cheated or not.

[Elvado]

Philadelphia has just announced that next year's annual civic disgrace, otherwise known as Wing Bowl, will be a retroactive Super Bowl parade. The Seagulls will be awarded cubic zirconia rings and QB Donovan McNabb will be named MVP (most vile puker).

[Deleted]

EDIT: The NFL/MLB has an anti-trust exemption. Stadiums are almost always constructed with public funds. Billions of dollars are spent on an industry that consumes public airwaves throughout the year. I could go on and on, but the simple fact remains... a Congressional committee has every right to investigate this and the steroids-in-baseball scandals.

Now, can we get back to the REAL issue here?

Bill Belichick and the Patriots have been cheating for eight years, since the day The Hood took the reins of the organization.

How this is not HUGE news in the sports world is beyond me. This is as big or bigger as the Clemens/Mitchell Report fiasco, yet for some reason ESPN and other sports outlets aren't paying it much attention. They'd rather give us their umpteenth Daytona 500 preview.

Fans spend millions upon millions of dollars on the NFL product, not to mention the billions upon billions networks and corporate sponsors spend to promote and prop-up the supposed greatest sports league on Earth, where because of the alleged level playing field any team can win "on any give Sunday." These massive dollar amounts are thrown around because the great NFL has supposedly created a competitive environment in which every team is given the same resources and limitations with which to compete; a league where, if you're really good at what you do on the football field and/or in the front office, you too can win a World Championship.

What irks me the most here is not that the Patriots have been systematically cheating for nearly a decade (which is disgusting in and of itself and DOES Edited me off to no end), but that the NFL has done so little to rid itself of the cloud that now hangs over it, has kept the public that makes it the most lucrative sports league in the world in the dark for so long, and has attempted to sweep under the rug a scandal that could have such far ranging implications.

Cheating is bad enough. For the NFL to treat it the way it has is despicable.

A very, very dark day for the NFL.

[dajuan]

Feb 15, 2008 1:21:02 GMT -5 Filo said:

No, the 'Congress should focus on stuff that really matters instead of sports' logic is espoused by those who hold onto the basic principle that the federal government should be scaled down and should not getting involved in so many of the issues that it currently is involved in. These relativistic arguments are merely noise. I don't need to give you a calculation if all I am saying is that there is no reason for the federal government to get involved in an issue like whether the Patriots cheated or not.

Buffalo may have already made this point clear enough, so I ask you, Filo, if the federal government doesn't involve itself in making sure that a billion dollar industry is fairly regulated then who's going to do it?

If it were just a matter of the Patriots cheating, and the Commissioner's Office had handled it appropriately, then Congress wouldn't be involved. But Senator Specter suspects that the NFL covered something up, so he's asking some questions. I ask again, if the federal government doesn't do this, then who will? If the NFL would rather save face than ensure a fair shake for all involved, then who can we rely on to keep the NFL honest?

[DanMcQ]

Yup, the Patriots are the ONLY team that has done some form of videotaping.

Man, it must be awful cold up there in Buffalo.

[Deleted]

Feb 15, 2008 11:05:09 GMT -5 DanMcQ said:

Yup, the Patriots are the ONLY team that has done some form of videotaping.

What a convenient way to ignore the fact the Pats are caught-in-the-act and admitted cheaters. The issue isn't what other teams MAY or MAY NOT do (and do date, there's no evidence whatsoever any one of the 31 other teams VIDEOTAPES coaches giving signals), its what should happen to a team that has knowningly cheated the past eight years.

Further, I never said they were the only ones doing it. I can't make that assumption, just like you can't say everyone does it. If the Bills had been caught doing the same thing (they've been so bad for the past eight years, maybe they should have been cheating, too), I'd be first in line to throw them under the bus. Fact is, neither the Bills NOR ANY OTHER TEAM AS FAR AS WE KNOW have engaged in this sort of videotaping.

Are teams actively trying to steal signs like in baseball? Perhaps. I don't think it would surprise any of us to find that out. But as of today we don't know of any other team who has knowingly circumvented a specific rule and videotaped coaches calling signals out to players on the field outsie of the Patriots. They should be punished appropriately, and if they have been cheating for EIGHT YEARS the current punishment simply does not fit the crime.

Like I said, its bad enough the Pats are caught and admitted cheaters. What's worse is the horrible way the NFL has managed the situation, which has done nothing but draw MORE scrutiny to the integrity of the league. THAT is what Editedes me off more than anything. Rather than get a handle on the situation and assure fans the competitive integrity of the league is intact, they've let the situation spiral out of control...

... and now Congress is involved. How this isn't a monstrous black eye for Belichick, the Patriots and the NFL is beyond me.

[guru]

Does anyone NOT think this is a black eye on the Pats, Belichick and the entire league?

I think it's only rabid Pats fans who won't admit at this point that Belichick's legacy (and unfortunately, that of the teams he coached) won't be not just tainted but dominated by the admitted cheating.

The faster the Patriots get off center stage and return to their pre-cheating doormat (read: true) selves, the better for the NFL.