BigMike
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 253
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Post by BigMike on Feb 8, 2008 17:44:57 GMT -5
There has been a lot of discussion about our lack of a signature win, but UNC and Kansas don't have one and neither does Duke (UNC without Lawson doesn't count in my book).
I agree we haven't looked great, but I think our fans have been overly critical of how we match up with other top teams.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Feb 8, 2008 17:47:50 GMT -5
It doesn't matter if we have one or not. That's for bubble teams.
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BigMike
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 253
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Post by BigMike on Feb 8, 2008 17:51:29 GMT -5
It may matter for seeding. It seems like most of the media guys are really down on our team and a lot of the criticism we've been getting seems like it could easily be aimed at a team like UNC.
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Post by seattlehoya11 on Feb 8, 2008 19:13:06 GMT -5
There has been a lot of discussion about our lack of a signature win, but UNC and Kansas don't have one and neither does Duke (UNC without Lawson doesn't count in my book). I agree we haven't looked great, but I think our fans have been overly critical of how we match up with other top teams. Obviously UNC-Duke wasn't all it was cracked up to be w/o Lawson, and I wouldn't dream of saying anything against the idea that Duke is overrated on this board, especially with how new posters are treated, BUT a victory over the #2 team in the country is a signature win. When selection sunday rolls around you can't really believe anyone is going to argue that Duke is lacking a big win in the same way that we are now. That said... how good is our domination of Notre Dame looking right about now...
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kghoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,997
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Post by kghoya on Feb 8, 2008 19:15:31 GMT -5
the hoyas had one chance at an elite win...and they lost
ts harder for the really elite teams to have signature wins...georgetown is the signature win in the big east and, hello, we are georgetown...
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SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 747
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Post by SirSaxa on Feb 8, 2008 19:48:49 GMT -5
There has been a lot of discussion about our lack of a signature win, but UNC and Kansas don't have one and neither does Duke (UNC without Lawson doesn't count in my book). I agree we haven't looked great, but I think our fans have been overly critical of how we match up with other top teams. Obviously UNC-Duke wasn't all it was cracked up to be w/o Lawson, and I wouldn't dream of saying anything against the idea that Duke is overrated on this board, especially with how new posters are treated, BUT a victory over the #2 team in the country is a signature win. When selection sunday rolls around you can't really believe anyone is going to argue that Duke is lacking a big win in the same way that we are now. UNC may not have had Lawson, but they were at home. Has to be a Big win for Duke. By the end of the season, our wins over UCONN and ND and maybe some others could be looking pretty good. But whatever one makes of all that, we still want to go to Louisville and walk out with a W! By the way, Seattle, don't let anyone intimidate you for being a new poster. Most of us welcome new Hoya fans who comment on actual basketball issues in a reasonable and informed way. Welcome to the board.
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Post by vamosalaplaya on Feb 8, 2008 20:44:38 GMT -5
Duke has UNC and Wisconsin, both very big wins, injuries or not.
I agree with SF that the wins over UConn in particular and maybe ND are looking better and better. And if you look at UConn's schedule - they could run the table, there isn't a single game they have they wouldn't be favored if it were played tomorrow. So UConn may be a top ten team before the season is out and very much a signature win.
Big Mike you are right, and I didn't realize it - Kansas's wins over USC and Arizona, which were bigger than anything GU had for some time, aren't that great these days. Interesting, maybe GU has a better shot at a number one seed than I thought.
The road game at Lousville looms large in terms of signature win discussions.
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MassHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,786
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Post by MassHoya on Feb 9, 2008 11:53:14 GMT -5
After watching an hour of the Louisville Love Club, also known as Game Day, this will be a signature win for us in the media and fans' minds. It will get us a higher seeding. GO HOYAS!!!! Beat the Cards!!!
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Post by williambraskyiii on Feb 9, 2008 11:58:55 GMT -5
Bilas is the only one to pick Gtown to win. Digger and Hubert "Gtown is no. 1 team in the country" davis pick luhvuhl
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TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
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Post by TBird41 on Feb 9, 2008 14:34:19 GMT -5
At this point last year, the Hoyas did not have a signature win. They were 16-5 and 6-2 in the Big East. Their best win was against Notre Dame or possibly @ Vandy. The rest of their wins consisted of @rutgers, @ Seton Hall, Depaul, Cincinnati, @ St. John's. The game at Louisville, on Feb. 7th, was their first "signature" win and it was the point the Hoyas became contenders again.
This year, the Hoyas are 9-1, but people are doubting them because of their "close" wins and the fact their offense hasn't started clicking yet. If they can go into Louisville, well, they'll have their signature win, and they'll be well on their way to another Big East regular season title. They're going to have play well though, and if they can get it together on both ends, I expect to see the Hoyas ending up with a similar run in the Big East.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Feb 9, 2008 15:09:45 GMT -5
With L'ville playing well and at home, not many (off this board) are expecting a Hoya victory. If we can go in there again and come out with a win, that would be great and a good setup for the rest of the year. I always hate playing Pitino, because of his success against us, but I guess that was with JTII. If we can go in there again and win, this fear will be dampened a bit. GO HOYAS!!!!!!!!!!!
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SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by SirSaxa on Feb 9, 2008 15:49:54 GMT -5
With L'ville playing well and at home, not many (off this board) are expecting a Hoya victory. If we can go in there again and come out with a win, that would be great and a good setup for the rest of the year. I always hate playing Pitino, because of his success against us, but I guess that was with JTII. If we can go in there again and win, this fear will be dampened a bit. GO HOYAS!!!!!!!!!!! Good point Nevada. OUr team has a lot of pride and they look forward to challenges. They blew it against Memphis, and I don't think they want to embarrass themselves again. The USF game surely had a bit of "looking past the weak opponent to the next game" as part of it. This is the "Next Game". I am certain our Hoyas will come out ready to play right from the start. That doesn't guarantee a victory, but I fully expect our guys to give top effort and play well. And when our team plays well, we are usually pretty happy with the results! GO HOYAS!
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Feb 9, 2008 18:19:47 GMT -5
AGREE nevada as usual tonite would be a great GREAT signature win this ville team is great playing great now that they got everybody back VERY HUGE GAME LIKE INCREDIBLE ITS MONEY TIME ITS FEBRUARY LET THE GAMES BEGIN AND dang marquette shoulda got nd for us go hoyas ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Grandpa
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Post by Grandpa on Feb 10, 2008 21:53:05 GMT -5
I had initially posted this in a new thread, but had forgotten there was one from a previous day on the subject - have added it onto that thread.I've seen the subject of this thread as an ancillary point of concern in a few different posts by some on the board, but am a little puzzled by this. Not puzzled that this is not a worthy concern of a fan of a team contemplating NCAA post-season possibilities and related seating in said post-season, but more that this is a significant issue for the team. It is certainly understood that our non-conference schedule isn't going to wow the selection committee, but getting it done in the conference games (which at 9-2, I'd say we have) mitigates that, not to mention the following other points (RPI #s have been used as a proxy to indicate quality of opponent - realize this is not a perfect measure, but it is a measurement tool that the selection committee looks at): * We beat UConn (RPI #13) at home. I'm not sure why this doesn't qualify as a sig win (particularly now that Vitale has gone on record with the belief that the Huskies are the best in the Big East ; not sure if it's the way in which we won (and/or the fact that we needed a harried comeback in the last few minutes of the game) or the fact that we still think of UConn as the team that struggled last season. * Our 3 losses on the season are to teams in the top 17 in RPI (#3 Memphis, #16 Pitt and #17 Louisville, all in road games) * We also had a convincing, double-digit win vs. ND (RPI #26) at home * In 2007, we had two wins vs. #5 Pitt (in 3 meetings); our next "best" wins (in terms of RPI) were twice vs #19 Nova (including one on the road in 3 meetings) and #22 Marquette. Beyond that, the main diff this year vs. last year thus far was a couple of slightly more impressive non-conf wins (the effect of which was probably largely offset by 3 losses to quality non-conf competition). I'm not trying to say the above points should allay all concerns of the Hoya faithful, but I do think we need to keep things in perspective. Likewise, I'm also not trying to imply that the above facts are going to magically "will" the team to 6 or 7 wins in the remaining regular season schedule and a #2 seed in the NCAAs. What I am trying to say is this whole hangup with the signature win as some sort of barometer or validation that the Hoyas have played well this season seems a bit misguided. This team on the balance HAS played well - well enough to be 19-3 and 9-2 in conference. Will this team accomplish all of what last season's team did in regards to regular season BE champs, BET champs, and NCAA Final 4? At this point of course, we don't know, but I'm pretty sure the lack of a "signature win" to date isn't going to keep us from this.
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jgalt
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by jgalt on Feb 10, 2008 23:38:19 GMT -5
It is also difficult to have a signature win when you are considered better then all but 5 teams out of about 340 in D-1. we are the sig win for other teams and that puts a target on our back and makes every game harder. we dont need to worry about sig wins and rpi, just about winning
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blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by blueandgray on Feb 11, 2008 0:23:58 GMT -5
how are our wins vs ND and UCON not considered signature wins?
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by thebin on Feb 11, 2008 9:07:56 GMT -5
I am a big believer that if you play in an undeniably elite conference like the Big East, signature wins and RPI don't mean squat. Just focus on the league games and the others take care of themselves. Its simpler that way.
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Post by grokamok on Feb 11, 2008 14:30:17 GMT -5
@ KGHoya & jgalt - agree that we are a signature game for other teams. The teams that beat us each played one of their best games of the season to do so, though each has beaten others: Pitt beat Duke @ MSG in OT, L'ville beat Marquette home & away, and Memphis might grab another vs Tennessee (the win vs 'Zona was while the Wildcats were missing Bayless and the win vs UConn was before that team found itself). However, even some of our wins came against teams that were playing above their heads (Syracuse, WVA, UConn & even Seton Hall).
@ blueandgray - ND doesn't travel well (their win @ 'Nova was during the Wildcats' slide & the only other decent victory they have outside of South Bend was a Dec. 4th win against Kansas State @ MSG, relatively homey and before K St. got used to working with Beasley instead of watching him); UConn would have been a something of a signature win if we had not had to come back and squeak by at the end.
While it would be heartening to see us outperform expectations in big games to come (e.g., a good win @ Marquette, convincing wins @ the 'Cuse & in our home finale vs L'ville, a dominating run through the BET, etc.), I hope we continue to take things one game at a time.
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