theexorcist
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,506
|
Post by theexorcist on Jan 11, 2008 16:43:51 GMT -5
Hoya9397 i think this makes no sense at all.....our players definitely have the ability to take on players one on one and create their own shots. The so called "system" you speak of predicates that they share the ball and get wide open shots rather than rely on their one on one abilities. This is what is so effective about the sets we run. Countless experts have credited the fact that we combine the total team effort of the "princeton offense" and combine it with great athletes (or individually gifted players however you want to look at it). Have you not seen jwall breaking ankles at rutgers? Jessie sapp getting into the lane regularly with ease? Dajaun summers creating matchup nightmares for smaller 3 guards.?. One of austin's strengths coming into gtown was his ability to get into the lane and make controlled effective plays. And roy? come on, he shot something like 60 percent (prob more) last year from the field. Granted he hasnt produced as well as we had hoped to this point but the last game showed flashes of his old self. I will hold judgement untill tomorrow to say whether or not he is back to his form of last year but I am confident we will see it. The best thing about all these players (with the exception of roy) is they arent one dimensional. All can pull up and hit a jumpshot so defenders have to respect both the shot and the drive, making them all the more dangerous. Basically your original post lacks the insight that an educated view of our personel would have provided. Please say that you chose your screen name because HungryHungryHoyas was taken.
|
|
|
Post by HoyasAreHungry on Jan 11, 2008 16:49:02 GMT -5
Hoya9397 i think this makes no sense at all.....our players definitely have the ability to take on players one on one and create their own shots. The so called "system" you speak of predicates that they share the ball and get wide open shots rather than rely on their one on one abilities. This is what is so effective about the sets we run. Countless experts have credited the fact that we combine the total team effort of the "princeton offense" and combine it with great athletes (or individually gifted players however you want to look at it). Have you not seen jwall breaking ankles at rutgers? Jessie sapp getting into the lane regularly with ease? Dajaun summers creating matchup nightmares for smaller 3 guards.?. One of austin's strengths coming into gtown was his ability to get into the lane and make controlled effective plays. And roy? come on, he shot something like 60 percent (prob more) last year from the field. Granted he hasnt produced as well as we had hoped to this point but the last game showed flashes of his old self. I will hold judgement untill tomorrow to say whether or not he is back to his form of last year but I am confident we will see it. The best thing about all these players (with the exception of roy) is they arent one dimensional. All can pull up and hit a jumpshot so defenders have to respect both the shot and the drive, making them all the more dangerous. Basically your original post lacks the insight that an educated view of our personel would have provided. Please say that you chose your screen name because HungryHungryHoyas was taken. haha should i say yes?
|
|
hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,387
|
Post by hifigator on Jan 11, 2008 17:26:44 GMT -5
I am just glad to see that I agree with the overwhelming majority of you all here.
|
|
blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,808
|
Post by blueandgray on Jan 11, 2008 17:52:50 GMT -5
I was at the 1996 BET Final game.... the last 5 minutes of which were quite possibly the most painful in my life.... and it went something like this.
Hoyas up by 11 with three and a half to play: Sheffer... layup Iverson missed shot Travis knight fouled and one Iverson turnover (point guard who was defending iverson) - lay up Iverson fouled... misses front end king hits a basket and gets fouled Iverson (please pass the ball to page...he's got Scheffer on him and went for 31 the night before) Turnover. RAY ALLEN - leaping and twisting heave free throw line extended - IT GOES!!! Iverson again... fall away from the free throw line with a hand in his face.... misses right... put back attempt by Jerome... over shoots the layup. GAMEOVER, GAMEOVER... the Huskies beat the Hoyas.
I think anyone who watched this game would rather have a team where the game winning shot come from any one of three or four players. I would honestly feel comfortable with the ball in almost any of our starters hands with the possible exception of Patrick out on the perimeter.
GO Hoyas... SPADE THE HUSKIES!!!!!
|
|
RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
|
Post by RDF on Jan 11, 2008 18:47:48 GMT -5
I was at the 1996 BET Final game.... the last 5 minutes of which were quite possibly the most painful in my life.... and it went something like this. Hoyas up by 11 with three and a half to play: Sheffer... layup Iverson missed shot Travis knight fouled and one Iverson turnover (point guard who was defending iverson) - lay up Iverson fouled... misses front end king hits a basket and gets fouled Iverson (please pass the ball to page...he's got Scheffer on him and went for 31 the night before) Turnover. RAY ALLEN - leaping and twisting heave free throw line extended - IT GOES!!! Iverson again... fall away from the free throw line with a hand in his face.... misses right... put back attempt by Jerome... over shoots the layup. GAMEOVER, GAMEOVER... the Huskies beat the Hoyas. I think anyone who watched this game would rather have a team where the game winning shot come from any one of three or four players. I would honestly feel comfortable with the ball in almost any of our starters hands with the possible exception of Patrick out on the perimeter. GO Hoyas... SPADE THE HUSKIES!!!!! Not only is this DEAD ON--it also didn't even bring up the fact Victor Page was named the Most Oustanding Player of the BET and was on losing team!! Iverson didn't give him the ball once and team was better against Nova in BET Semis and in Final with Iverson OFF the court. Which is why I said I don't think Iverson understands how to play the game. I think he's one of the most talented ever to lace them up--but I think he's limited his greatness by his refusal to alter his game and understand what champions at the higher levels do to win--this isn't HS where your talent can carry a team--it's important to dominate without the ball as well as with it. Again--you give me Jeff Green and current system and you can have your AI -star driven team. Pops in Ewing Era had balanced team too--Ewing was best player but taking tough shots late--that would be Reggie, Michael Jackson, Wingate, more often then not--but key was that TEAM was able to find ways to win. Of course that Ewing era team was "lucky" that Kentucky in 1984 Final Four Semis GAVE THEM GAME--Kentucky lost that more then Hoyas won it.
|
|
SFOHoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 503
|
Post by SFOHoya on Jan 11, 2008 20:37:43 GMT -5
I was at the 1996 BET Final game.... the last 5 minutes of which were quite possibly the most painful in my life.... and it went something like this. Hoyas up by 11 with three and a half to play: Sheffer... layup Iverson missed shot Travis knight fouled and one Iverson turnover (point guard who was defending iverson) - lay up Iverson fouled... misses front end king hits a basket and gets fouled Iverson (please pass the ball to page...he's got Scheffer on him and went for 31 the night before) Turnover. RAY ALLEN - leaping and twisting heave free throw line extended - IT GOES!!! Iverson again... fall away from the free throw line with a hand in his face.... misses right... put back attempt by Jerome... over shoots the layup. GAMEOVER, GAMEOVER... the Huskies beat the Hoyas. GO Hoyas... SPADE THE HUSKIES!!!!! I was at MSG as well that fateful night; reading the recap... that game still stings something awful.
|
|
blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,808
|
Post by blueandgray on Jan 11, 2008 23:07:39 GMT -5
I was at the 1996 BET Final game.... the last 5 minutes of which were quite possibly the most painful in my life.... and it went something like this. Hoyas up by 11 with three and a half to play: Sheffer... layup Iverson missed shot Travis knight fouled and one Iverson turnover (point guard who was defending iverson) - lay up Iverson fouled... misses front end king hits a basket and gets fouled Iverson (please pass the ball to page...he's got Scheffer on him and went for 31 the night before) Turnover. RAY ALLEN - leaping and twisting heave free throw line extended - IT GOES!!! Iverson again... fall away from the free throw line with a hand in his face.... misses right... put back attempt by Jerome... over shoots the layup. GAMEOVER, GAMEOVER... the Huskies beat the Hoyas. I think anyone who watched this game would rather have a team where the game winning shot come from any one of three or four players. I would honestly feel comfortable with the ball in almost any of our starters hands with the possible exception of Patrick out on the perimeter. GO Hoyas... SPADE THE HUSKIES!!!!! Not only is this DEAD ON--it also didn't even bring up the fact Victor Page was named the Most Oustanding Player of the BET and was on losing team!! Iverson didn't give him the ball once and team was better against Nova in BET Semis and in Final with Iverson OFF the court. Which is why I said I don't think Iverson understands how to play the game. I think he's one of the most talented ever to lace them up--but I think he's limited his greatness by his refusal to alter his game and understand what champions at the higher levels do to win--this isn't HS where your talent can carry a team--it's important to dominate without the ball as well as with it. Again--you give me Jeff Green and current system and you can have your AI -star driven team. Pops in Ewing Era had balanced team too--Ewing was best player but taking tough shots late--that would be Reggie, Michael Jackson, Wingate, more often then not--but key was that TEAM was able to find ways to win. Of course that Ewing era team was "lucky" that Kentucky in 1984 Final Four Semis GAVE THEM GAME--Kentucky lost that more then Hoyas won it. Right VP was named MVP. What I also failed to mention was that Ray Allen was 0 for 11 for the game and hit the game winning field goal in the closing seconds. My point being.... it was the super star who carried the team... he was held scoreless all game. As to Iverson, look ... he's probably my single favorite player to watch. I mean I could go through two dogs, peanuts, a tub of popcorn, a malt, and a beer to wash it all down and still not be sick of watching him. He's the best. (nash is up there too...but for very different reasons). That said... while Iverson has grown some... his instict is to be a shoot first..he's an all or nothing type of guy. this hurts him. Its like the Dwane Wade commercial with Shaun Livingston guarding him. His conscious is over his left shoulder telling him to pull up and pass the ball ... and his alter ego is on the other side telling him to take it to the hole and "dunk on him". Iverson is that same player and the alter ego usually gets the best of him.
|
|
Z
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 409
|
Post by Z on Jan 12, 2008 4:25:58 GMT -5
"As to Iverson, look ... he's probably my single favorite player to watch. I mean I could go through two dogs, peanuts, a tub of popcorn, a malt, and a beer to wash it all down and still not be sick of watching him. He's the best. (nash is up there too...but for very different reasons). That said... while Iverson has grown some... his instict is to be a shoot first..he's an all or nothing type of guy. this hurts him. Its like the Dwane Wade commercial with Shaun Livingston guarding him. His conscious is over his left shoulder telling him to pull up and pass the ball ... and his alter ego is on the other side telling him to take it to the hole and "dunk on him". Iverson is that same player and the alter ego usually gets the best of him."
posts like this remind me never to even bother arguing about AI's greatness-it's one of those things you either get or you don't. the guy spent ten years giving his blood, sweat and tears to a garbage franchise that surrounded him with warm mess. you realize that he single handedly willed a team with aaron mckie as the second option into the finals, right (probably the worst NBA finals team ever)? and that you post this "selfish" meme in arguably his most efficient season as a pro (at age 32, playing out of position, shooting nearly 47% FGs) on a night where he dropped 13 dimes?
after watching 10 brutal years in philly where he was beaten within an inch of his life every night, my 2 cents argue that AI is the best pound for pound, inch for inch basketball player i've ever seen. i love garnett, but he is getting stroked in the media every night for doing on a great team what AI did for 10 years on a crappy one, without the extra foot and 100 pounds.
|
|
blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,808
|
Post by blueandgray on Jan 12, 2008 6:17:35 GMT -5
"As to Iverson, look ... he's probably my single favorite player to watch. I mean I could go through two dogs, peanuts, a tub of popcorn, a malt, and a beer to wash it all down and still not be sick of watching him. He's the best. (nash is up there too...but for very different reasons). That said... while Iverson has grown some... his instinct is to be a shoot first..he's an all or nothing type of guy. this hurts him. Its like the Dwayne Wade commercial with Shaun Livingston guarding him. His conscious is over his left shoulder telling him to pull up and pass the ball ... and his alter ego is on the other side telling him to take it to the hole and "dunk on him". Iverson is that same player and the alter ego usually gets the best of him." posts like this remind me never to even bother arguing about AI's greatness-it's one of those things you either get or you don't. the guy spent ten years giving his blood, sweat and tears to a garbage franchise that surrounded him with warm mess. you realize that he single handedly willed a team with aaron mckie as the second option into the finals, right (probably the worst NBA finals team ever)? and that you post this "selfish" meme in arguably his most efficient season as a pro (at age 32, playing out of position, shooting nearly 47% FGs) on a night where he dropped 13 dimes? after watching 10 brutal years in philly where he was beaten within an inch of his life every night, my 2 cents argue that AI is the best pound for pound, inch for inch basketball player i've ever seen. i love garnett, but he is getting stroked in the media every night for doing on a great team what AI did for 10 years on a crappy one, without the extra foot and 100 pounds. Don't for a second imply that I don't get Iverson's greatness. I do. I totally agree that pound per pound he is the best and toughest guy out there. He's always been tough. He's always been great.... so great that he single-handedly took Philly to the finals. I agree. I will also say that Iverson growth as a bball player is more than I previously suggested in my last post. My point however is that he wasn't always a great team player. He didn't always make those around him better. You have to admit that there was a time where he wasn't too enthusiastic about "practice!", or when Iverson was more concerned with his consecutive streak of scoring more than 40 a game than he was necessarily with the outcome of the game. You do remember that.. don't you?? In the end, I think he is a better team player than he has ever been and continues to evolve as a ball player. That wasn't always the case. With guys like Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, Garnett (as you mention above), Magic Johnson.... it was always team first with those guys. In addressing the question posed by this thread...(and with everything being even - Jeff with the headset of a 20 year old and Iverson at the same age) I'd have to take a player like Jeff Green in the Georgetown system over an Iverson. Beat Ucon!!
|
|
lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,443
|
Post by lichoya68 on Jan 12, 2008 8:31:32 GMT -5
IT IS VERY VERY GOOD go coach go hoyas
|
|
|
Post by nebraskahoya on Jan 12, 2008 16:47:49 GMT -5
Personally, I think that the smartest thing to do at the end of a close game is try and get Roy open from behind the arc. It's definitely the highest percentage shot Nice one, TBird! I'd have to agree with you on this one...
|
|
|
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Jan 12, 2008 17:03:08 GMT -5
With 30 seconds on the clock, down by two who takes the shot? Roy!
|
|
vcjack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,875
|
Post by vcjack on Jan 12, 2008 17:20:03 GMT -5
The biggest question mark comming into this year was who takes the shot when the chips are down when Jeff is gone, I think I know the answer to this one!
|
|
Locker
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,265
|
Post by Locker on Jan 12, 2008 17:47:26 GMT -5
The chances that Roy would have developed that shot in another system are about 0.001%.
|
|
lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,443
|
Post by lichoya68 on Jan 12, 2008 21:03:15 GMT -5
THE SYSTEM FREAKING WORKS THE SEVEN FOOTER YES OUR SEVEN FOOTER HITS THE WIDE OPEN THREE YUP MONEY roy IS mean and freaking smooth too yup go hoyas what a system ill take it and coach
|
|
|
Post by HoyasAreHungry on Jan 12, 2008 23:13:29 GMT -5
haha i definitely was thinking of this thread as we came out of timeout to run the final play
|
|
|
Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jan 12, 2008 23:27:03 GMT -5
The chances that Roy would have developed that shot in another system are about 0.001%. Money quote from Locker... I cringe many times when folks yell at Roy to get in the paint, stay there, and do a Mike Sweetney impersonation. We have a team-oriented system, and Roy is a part of that at the top of the key, in the paint, on the bench, at practice, on the Spanish announce table, and right on down the line. He does the same drills that our guards do at times in practice (see full court dribbling and perimeter shooting). That 3 today would have looked more like a Vern Macklin free throw were it not for these hours of practice and his offensive experience on the perimeter.
|
|
hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,387
|
Post by hifigator on Jan 12, 2008 23:30:10 GMT -5
Personally, I think that the smartest thing to do at the end of a close game is try and get Roy open from behind the arc. It's definitely the highest percentage shot Nice one, TBird! I'd have to agree with you on this one... I knew for sure someone else would remember that post. I was thinking the same thing. In any case, nothin' but net baby!
|
|
lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,443
|
Post by lichoya68 on Jan 13, 2008 0:17:07 GMT -5
AS FOR [PRACTICE AS JOHN WOODEN SAID THE MORE I PRACTICE THE LUCKIER I GET YUP GO HOYAS PRACTICE THOSE THREES SOME AT THE END OF PRACITCE money money money go hoyas beat pitt
|
|