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Vernon
Dec 29, 2007 14:45:23 GMT -5
Post by HometownHoya on Dec 29, 2007 14:45:23 GMT -5
While watching Vernon play, has anyone else ever thought that he could play better as a Forward (esp if he ever wend to the NBA). It just seems like for a big man, he is better at dribbling, passing, and coming from the outside then sitting inside and posting up.
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GUJook97
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Vernon
Dec 29, 2007 15:50:28 GMT -5
Post by GUJook97 on Dec 29, 2007 15:50:28 GMT -5
i agree. as a low post player, he looks lost. as i said in the other thread, he catches down low and is way too hestistant - he almost looks like he wants no part of being down there with the ball. but, that said, he has to be Roy's back up. there is no other role for him right now.
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mapei
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,089
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Vernon
Dec 29, 2007 15:56:59 GMT -5
Post by mapei on Dec 29, 2007 15:56:59 GMT -5
Absolutely agree. He looks like he would be a superb PF. He's getting better as a post player, though.
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idhoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,177
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Vernon
Dec 29, 2007 16:20:45 GMT -5
Post by idhoya on Dec 29, 2007 16:20:45 GMT -5
his role will expand once help arrives in the form of GM, KB and HS.
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Vernon
Dec 29, 2007 16:21:18 GMT -5
Post by strummer8526 on Dec 29, 2007 16:21:18 GMT -5
Third thread now where I'm saying we should play some time...maybe 5-10 min a game (if fouls and stamina allow) with Roy and Vernon on the floor at the same time. Vernon will pick up a TON of cheap points cleaning up around the basket. It would take some defensive pressure off Roy. It would benefit both of them.
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Vernon
Dec 29, 2007 16:34:25 GMT -5
Post by whatrocks33 on Dec 29, 2007 16:34:25 GMT -5
I like him a lot but he doesn't seem that interested in playing hard all the time. I do think putting him and Roy on the floor at the same time would be beneficial for both him and the team.
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HoyaNyr320
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Vernon
Dec 29, 2007 17:00:42 GMT -5
Post by HoyaNyr320 on Dec 29, 2007 17:00:42 GMT -5
Putting Hibbert and Macklin on at the same time sounds great from an offensive standpoint, but how many teams have we played so far where this would actually work on the defensive end? Basketball has to be played at both ends of the court and having 2 guys that on the floor that are slower defenders doesn't work unless you are playing a team that has 2 big/tall players trying to score in the post. Most of the teams we've played have had power forwards that can dribble and shoot the 3- which would render Vernon ineffective on defense.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Vernon
Dec 29, 2007 18:41:57 GMT -5
Post by RDF on Dec 29, 2007 18:41:57 GMT -5
Putting Hibbert and Macklin on at the same time sounds great from an offensive standpoint, but how many teams have we played so far where this would actually work on the defensive end? Basketball has to be played at both ends of the court and having 2 guys that on the floor that are slower defenders doesn't work unless you are playing a team that has 2 big/tall players trying to score in the post. Most of the teams we've played have had power forwards that can dribble and shoot the 3- which would render Vernon ineffective on defense. Now Macklin is "slow"? The guy is one of the quickest bigs in the country--and if you play him alongside Roy--it would allow the team to have some rebounding when Roy challenges a shot--it's not like this is a lineup you want to see 25+ minutes and it would depend on WHICH TEAM you are playing--but it is a lineup that would help on the glass against physical/big frontlines or teams who have good/quick athletes who crash the boards.
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Vernon
Dec 29, 2007 18:46:41 GMT -5
Post by HometownHoya on Dec 29, 2007 18:46:41 GMT -5
I'm not sure if you noticed it but Vernon at to switch onto their PG a few times and defended him fine (of course he funneled him into help). But against any other Forward (except maybe some of the real fast small forwards), I think Vernon would be fine.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Vernon
Dec 29, 2007 18:56:30 GMT -5
Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 29, 2007 18:56:30 GMT -5
The issue with Roy and mack together has more to do with the fact that Vern's range is about six inches and nothing to do with defense. The guy is a quality defender. But he isn't going to spread the floor and it is begging the other team to double Roy off him.
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Vernon
Dec 29, 2007 19:31:48 GMT -5
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Dec 29, 2007 19:31:48 GMT -5
i think that's true SF, but i think that fact will allow mack to get a lot of offensive rebounds and put backs when his man doubles roy.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Vernon
Dec 29, 2007 19:49:17 GMT -5
Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 29, 2007 19:49:17 GMT -5
i think that's true SF, but i think that fact will allow mack to get a lot of offensive rebounds and put backs when his man doubles roy. Sure. Though I'm not sure why Pat can't fit that role as well.
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Vernon
Dec 29, 2007 20:03:31 GMT -5
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Dec 29, 2007 20:03:31 GMT -5
another good point, not sure if there's much to suggest that macklin would do a better job as an offensive rebounder. Pat has 14 offensive rebounds on the season macklin has 10 in 4 less minutes. But doesn't really prove much. It's not like i have any stats that can show one person is better at put backs.
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Vernon
Dec 29, 2007 20:41:25 GMT -5
Post by HometownHoya on Dec 29, 2007 20:41:25 GMT -5
i think that's true SF, but i think that fact will allow mack to get a lot of offensive rebounds and put backs when his man doubles roy. Sure. Though I'm not sure why Pat can't fit that role as well. Thats the thing, he can...the point is that Vernon seems to be a better fit as a forward. Pat is a forward so he does fit that role as well.
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Vernon
Dec 30, 2007 15:16:10 GMT -5
Post by HoyaLingus on Dec 30, 2007 15:16:10 GMT -5
I've always thought that Vernon is a natural PF ... who knows why he's not playing there.
Maybe he sucks there, too.
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Vernon
Dec 30, 2007 15:23:30 GMT -5
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Dec 30, 2007 15:23:30 GMT -5
in warm ups he has a pretty decent stroke from the field, I wonder why he never takes those shots in games, maybe if he played at PF he'd get a chance too. It's weird that he swishes shots form the corners in warm ups but can't hit a free throw.
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Vernon
Dec 30, 2007 15:30:20 GMT -5
Post by hoyalawyer on Dec 30, 2007 15:30:20 GMT -5
I've said it about 10 times now... the reason Vern does not play the four is his lack of passing skills from the High Post Position (that is why, IF and WHEN, Roy and Vern are both in, ROY will be the one around the perimeter playing the 4 on offense, and Vern will play the 5. PROBLEM: Vern's Limited skills as a 5 as far as back to the basket skills are concerned.)
Solution: EITHER... continue to develop low post offense, or... work on high-post-2-low-post entry, and midrange touch to improve as a 4. I'd Prefer he do both, but the latter is more essential for our goals short term, as well as his long term development.
On D, Vern is quick as a cat, but is a much better HELP SIDE, than on the ball defender.
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lichoya68
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OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Vernon
Dec 30, 2007 15:32:47 GMT -5
Post by lichoya68 on Dec 30, 2007 15:32:47 GMT -5
vernon should shoot twenty foul shots and stay till he hits twenty in a row at the end of practice and stop twisting his shot frequently to the left then he be great go hoyas beat forham bad no trap surprises ok??
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GIGAFAN99
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Vernon
Dec 30, 2007 15:35:12 GMT -5
Post by GIGAFAN99 on Dec 30, 2007 15:35:12 GMT -5
I'm sure Vern is a better PF but still, Vern is a good player with really just one glaring flaw. He's a good passer, doesn't turn the ball over, is second on the team in blocks, and shoots 65%.
This talk of him being slow or looking lost I think is pretty misguided. He's just playing out of position because he's our only potential Roy backup. He's doing a solid, but unspectacular, job in that role and the FT issue just gives everyone more of a reason to doubt him.
This is one of those times when a kid is doing what's best for the team and is probably helping his game in the long run by doing so but in the short run it makes him look bad sometimes.
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SFHoya99
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Vernon
Dec 30, 2007 17:11:55 GMT -5
Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 30, 2007 17:11:55 GMT -5
Mack is an excellent passer. Lawyer, are we watching the same player? The guy has great vision and good passing skills. Also, the talk of him being a bad defender is strange to me. I don't know what people are watching.
If Vern made his foul shots, no one would be talking about him negatively.
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