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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Jul 20, 2007 14:34:07 GMT -5
I don't think pacman has been convicted of anything yet so that argument goes away. 10+ run ins was enough for them to determine that although you may not be convicted, you can still be a jack ass.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Jul 20, 2007 14:44:18 GMT -5
Former and Healy:
Ooh, this is fun. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Puer agricola est.
I don't have Vick's contract. So a lot of this is supposition.
I'll also be very specific that the issue is the suspension, with or without pay, and especially a suspension by the Falcons.
An allegation has been made which has yet to be proven. If it's proven, Vick should be suspended, but that will be the least of his problems.
Healy, I agree that Vick would have no legal recourse if Schaub got the starting job. But he's being evaluated there on what he can and can't do on a field. Being accused of a crime does not affect your ability to throw a football and has minimal impact on your ability to lead a team. This is not the Pacman Jones case. Vick has never been convicted of or plead guilty to anything.
The thing that would lead me to treat this differently than the case of allegations being made against a manager at Dunder-Mifflin is that Vick's earning potential is limited to only a few years. If the Falcons hold him out due to non sports-related issues, he'd seem well justified in requesting his release. If I'm accused of a crime and suspended with pay, I can resign and go to work somewhere else (at least in theory). Vick can't join another NFL franchise unless the Falcons release him.
Right now, it appears as though the Falcons' owner has been in constant contact with Vick, but he hasn't suspended him. This seems right.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Jul 20, 2007 14:46:55 GMT -5
CHH:
Pacman did at least have a probation officer, so I assume he's plead guilty to something.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2007 15:53:31 GMT -5
You guys don't need to have a copy of Vick's contract. NFL contracts are form documents. The pertinent part reads:
"15. INTEGRITY OF GAME. Player recognizes the detriment to the League and professional football that would result from impairment of public confidence in the honest and orderly conduct of NFL games or the integrity and good character of NFL players. Player therefore acknowledges his awareness that if he... is guilty of any other form of conduct reasonably judged by the League Commissioner to be detrimental to the League or professional football, the Commissioner will have the right, but only after giving Player the opportunity for a hearing at which he may be represented by counsel of his choice, to fine Player in a reasonable amount; to suspend Player for a period certain or indefinitely; and/or to terminate this contract."
The CBA also states each team can set its own terms and conditions of employment (once approved by the league). If Blank has some sort of good character clause in there, you can bet he can terminate Vick's contract at the drop of a hat once guilty verdicts start flying... hell, there may even be team rules allowing for optional penalties when one is indicted for such a horrible crime.
EDIT: I would also imagine these team-specific terms and conditions would give owners some power to discipline their players in instances such as this without cutting them... suspended with pay or partial pay, something like that. As far as lawsuits go, Vick probably won't have too many avenues of recovery if he's disciplined per the letter of these rules and regs.
But more important is this part of the CBA:
" Article XI. Section 1. League Discipline: Notwithstanding anything stated in Article IX (Non-Injury Grievance):
(a) All disputes involving a fine or suspension imposed upon a player for conduct on the playing field other than as described in Subsection (b) below, or involving action taken against a player by the Commissioner for conduct detrimental to the integrity of, or public confidence in, the game of professional football, will be processed exclusively as follows: the Commissioner will promptly send written notice of his action to the player, with a copy to the NFLPA. Within twenty (20) days following such written notification, the player affected thereby, or the NFLPA with the player’s approval, may appeal in writing to the Commissioner."
The Commish can go ahead and suspend Vick whenever he wants.
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HealyHoya
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Post by HealyHoya on Jul 20, 2007 16:37:46 GMT -5
Former and Healy: Ooh, this is fun. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Puer agricola est. I don't have Vick's contract. So a lot of this is supposition. I'll also be very specific that the issue is the suspension, with or without pay, and especially a suspension by the Falcons. An allegation has been made which has yet to be proven. If it's proven, Vick should be suspended, but that will be the least of his problems. Healy, I agree that Vick would have no legal recourse if Schaub got the starting job. But he's being evaluated there on what he can and can't do on a field. Being accused of a crime does not affect your ability to throw a football and has minimal impact on your ability to lead a team. This is not the Pacman Jones case. Vick has never been convicted of or plead guilty to anything. The thing that would lead me to treat this differently than the case of allegations being made against a manager at Dunder-Mifflin is that Vick's earning potential is limited to only a few years. If the Falcons hold him out due to non sports-related issues, he'd seem well justified in requesting his release. If I'm accused of a crime and suspended with pay, I can resign and go to work somewhere else (at least in theory). Vick can't join another NFL franchise unless the Falcons release him. Right now, it appears as though the Falcons' owner has been in constant contact with Vick, but he hasn't suspended him. This seems right. Exorcist: Ok. First, it seems that you've backtracked a bit in saying that the only issue is the suspension. That doesn't seem to be the gist of your earlier post. I still contend that your Richard Jewell reference, though hilarious, was so out of place my Sony Vaio nearly combusted. Had that occurred, sir, I would have sued. (...sued you that is, and probably Sony). "Being accused of a crime does not affect your ability to throw a football and has minimal impact on your ability to lead a team." Errr...have you ever worked with someone while they're going through a divorce? Ever noticed how, for example, Ripken, Bonds, etc. routinely say they just want to set the record already so the massive distraction from the omnipresent crush of the national/international media goes away and everyone can get back to business as usual. The strain that a federal prosecution will put on Michael Vick the football player, Michael Vick the quarterback, amd/or Michael Vick the leader will be massive, tangible, and nothing but negative. It will affect Michael Vick, his family, his teammates, his coaches, the front office personnel of the Falcons, and, evidently, Richard Jewell. Finally, "If the Falcons hold him out due to non sports-related issues, he'd seem well justified in requesting his release." Yes, he would seem well justified in asking for his release. That would be Vick, or his representatives, acting in his best financial interests. That is exactly why Arthur Blank and the Atlanta Falcons ought to suspend, with some sort of pay, Michael Vick. It is clearly the move in the Falcons best financial interest. That entails serious consideration of mass protests, sponsors bailing, season ticket holders leaving, devaluation of the franchise.... If Blank decides to suspend Vick, maybe Vick files a protest...maybe Vick appeals through the NFLPA...maybe Vick sues...maybe Vick...whatever. The point is, while you may have a valid point in that Vick has a finite professional life and so releasing him might be the kinder thing to do, that is CERTAINLY not going to drive Arthur Blank's ultimate decision. Business concerns will drive his decision. Vick will either be suspended by the Falcons or request a "personal leave of absence" from the team. Whatever. Two different ways of getting to the same place. |
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TigerHoya
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Post by TigerHoya on Jul 23, 2007 14:14:04 GMT -5
AI is defending Vick today according to one report.
Emmitt Smith had some comments too that were more of a mixed bag.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jul 23, 2007 15:12:26 GMT -5
AI never at a loss for the ability to be a jackass...
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Jul 23, 2007 15:54:04 GMT -5
According to this story, AI didn't defend dogfighting or Vick's involvement in it. He did say pro athletes a) are under more scrutiny than the average human being; b) sometimes get taken advantage of by people they grew up with. Really not much of a story, IMO. sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2945919 |
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TigerHoya
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Post by TigerHoya on Jul 23, 2007 16:01:48 GMT -5
Sounds like Emmitt is getting more of the heat today.
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TigerHoya
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Post by TigerHoya on Jul 23, 2007 16:29:31 GMT -5
Vick has hired Billy Martin as his attorney. He also represented Juwan Howard, AI, Monica Lewinsky, Chandra Levy's parents, etc.
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Locker
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Post by Locker on Jul 23, 2007 19:36:21 GMT -5
Vick has hired Billy Martin as his attorney. He also represented Juwan Howard, AI, Monica Lewinsky, Chandra Levy's parents, etc. Martin is buddies with JT2, who helped him build his practice representing pro athletes: " You have a big practice representing basketball players. How’d that come about? Ultimately the person that helped me establish the niche with NBA players was Georgetown Coach John Thompson, a close friend. He introduced me to most of the NBA agents, including David Falk. The agents followed his recommendations and hired me." blogs.wsj.com/law/2007/02/27/law-blog-qa-sutherland-asbills-billy-martin/Glad to see some continuing Hoya connections at my old firm, one of whose name partners (Joe Brennan) was an Irishman from Georgia who sat on the University board way back when. |
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Jul 23, 2007 23:20:34 GMT -5
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Post by albertogonzales on Jul 24, 2007 6:27:41 GMT -5
We in the Justice Department are working dilligently to investigate this matter. Mr. Goodell and fans of the NFL need not concern themselves with our methods or results.
Back to work, Citizens.
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HealyHoya
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Post by HealyHoya on Jul 24, 2007 8:02:47 GMT -5
The beginning of the end for Vick in the ATL. ...as expected. |
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Jul 24, 2007 8:55:57 GMT -5
Am I the only one who sees a little irony in the fact that a network that broadcasts hunting, fishing and horseracing early on saturday and sunday mornings is so outraged by dogfighting. Yep, its really different. How barbaric!
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Jul 24, 2007 9:51:10 GMT -5
Am I the only one who sees a little irony in the fact that a network that broadcasts hunting, fishing and horseracing early on saturday and sunday mornings is so outraged by dogfighting. Yep, its really different. How barbaric! Ted Nugent called. He wants his crossbow back. ;D |
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jul 24, 2007 11:27:04 GMT -5
Am I the only one who sees a little irony in the fact that a network that broadcasts hunting, fishing and horseracing early on saturday and sunday mornings is so outraged by dogfighting. Yep, its really different. How barbaric! Don't forget boxing, the running of the bulls, and the WNBA. Affronts to nature and humanity all. |
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Jul 31, 2007 19:29:34 GMT -5
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