Vick Indicted

[vcjack]

I'll post the story, but if you miss it just turn on ESPN at any time 'caus we are going to here about it every minute for the rest of the summer

sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2940065

[TigerHoya]

Making me look really prescient now when I called for trading him and seeing how Schaub could do early in the Mora tenure. Too bad Schaub isn't an option now.

Daunte Culpepper did get released today though didn't he?

[AustinHoya03]

Here's the indictment. Looks like the government is still building the case, but there's a good amount of information contained in the indictment. If the allegations contained therein are true, it looks like Vick wasn't the central figure in this scheme but was certainly an active participant.

assets.espn.go.com/media/pdf/070717/vick_indictment.pdf

Anyone out there familiar with plea deals in federal court? I would guess any offer to Vick and his co-defendants would include at least 1 year of jail time.

[Deleted]

To piggy-back on what Austin mentioned, the FBI informant who spoke with his face and voice digitally altered on Outside the Lines or Real Sports mentioned that while the property may indeed have been Vick's, he was just known as a guy who would bring a dog or two to a fight and throw down massive bets.

This guy - who supposedly has inside information on the dog fighting world in that area of the country - seemed to think Vick was an active participant in the dog fighting world, but not some evil criminal mastermind plotting fights and training thousands of dogs in his spare time.

For what its worth.

EDIT: Oh, and you'd think the Falcons would be calling Culpepper pretty soon. I can't imagine the guy is washed up after one bad year in Miami behind a horrible offensive line and a rushed-back-too-soon surgically repaired leg.

[StPetersburgHoya (Inactive)]

A tribute:

[vcjack]

stpetersburghoya said:

A tribute:

"I finally threw my dog a bone, yeah, I underthrew my dog a bone"
;D ;D ;D ;D

[HoyaFanNY]

if true, vick is more of a massive scumbag than i originally thought. killing dogs by hanging and drowning if they didn't perform well is sickening.

[ColumbiaHeightsHoya]

They need stiffer fines and longer jail times. I would recommend electrocution or slamming him to the ground repeatedly until he dies. Something is clearly not right in someones head who condones this type of behavior. Unfortunately, I see it in my neighborhood all the time as the pit is often used to compensate for the owners shortcomings. This is pathetic! He has money so he will get out of this, but I hope his career is shortened by it and he never gets another endorsement dollar.

[EasyEd]

A man is innocent until ...................................
Signed: Duke Lacrosse Team

[hifigator]

ed said:

A man is innocent until ...................................
Signed: Duke Lacrosse Team

That's true Ed, but the difference here is that this is a federal indictment, not some two bit schmuck in Carolina looking to get elected ... or to steal a line from Fletch ... "Peckerhead Hannerhan bucking for a promotion."

In any case, the statistic I heard is that just over 90% of all federal indictments are settled before trial by plea bargain and of the remaining cases, there is a 95% conviction rate.

The feds don't make these charges whimsically. They already have their testimony. They already have cell phone and financial records. They already have forensic and lab results. Basically, they are ready to go to trial and win before they get the indictment.

[hifigator]

vcjack said:

I'll post the story, but if you miss it just turn on ESPN at any time 'caus we are going to here about it every minute for the rest of the summer

sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2940065

Right you are sir. Whether it is T.O. or Ben Roethlisberger's motorcycle accident or the Duke Lacrosse team, they will latch onto one story and badger us with it relentlessly.

[HealyHoya]

Yeah, Vick is screwed on a number of fronts here.

First, as Hifi notes, the three-ring circus orchestrated by Nifong in the Duke lacrosse fiasco has no instructive value for Vick's impending problems. Indictment by a federal grand jury is a precursor to one of two outcomes: a guilty plea to fewer and/or lesser charges or conviction and jail time.

Second, the conspiracy charge is essentially a legal catch-all. It suggests to any competent defense attorney that the prosecution believes they can establish that the accused's level of participation, knowledge, and involvement in the scheme was so thorough, so complete that the actions of any of the other accused individuals can be attributed to Vick. In other words, for those saying that this indictment DOES NOT mean the federal government is preparing to represent Michael Vick as the "criminal mastermind" behind this dog-fighting ring, think again. Conspiracy indicates evidence of financial facilitation of illegal activities, direct and indirect participation in illegal activities, control and/or influence over the illegal activities, etc.

Third, you can expect -- if it hasn't already happened -- that every other defendant in this case and co-conspirator in related actions, will flip on Vick.

Vick is innocent until proven guilty.

I'd sign Culpepper tomorrow.

[EasyEd]

"That's true Ed, but the difference here is that this is a federal indictment, not some two bit schmuck in Carolina looking to get elected ... or to steal a line from Fletch ... "Peckerhead Hannerhan bucking for a promotion."

Or, perhaps, they will find there was no crime committed by him but will get Vick under oath and find him guilty of lying under oath or obstruction of justice.
Signed: Special Investigator Fitzgerald.

[StPetersburgHoya (Inactive)]

healyhoya said:

Yeah, Vick is screwed on a number of fronts here.

First, as Hifi notes, the three-ring circus orchestrated by Nifong in the Duke lacrosse fiasco has no instructive value for Vick's impending problems. Indictment by a federal grand jury is a precursor to one of two outcomes: a guilty plea to fewer and/or lesser charges or conviction and jail time.

Second, the conspiracy charge is essentially a legal catch-all. It suggests to any competent defense attorney that the prosecution believes they can establish that the accused's level of participation, knowledge, and involvement in the scheme was so thorough, so complete that the actions of any of the other accused individuals can be attributed to Vick. In other words, for those saying that this indictment DOES NOT mean the federal government is preparing to represent Michael Vick as the "criminal mastermind" behind this dog-fighting ring, think again. Conspiracy indicates evidence of financial facilitation of illegal activities, direct and indirect participation in illegal activities, control and/or influence over the illegal activities, etc.

Third, you can expect -- if it hasn't already happened -- that every other defendant in this case and co-conspirator in related actions, will flip on Vick.

Vick is innocent until proven guilty.

I'd sign Culpepper tomorrow.

More importantly, if he's allowed to play the season in any way and his trial isn't going on during the season (both pretty likely in IMO), the first time he walks off the sideline with "Who Let the Dogs Out" blaring on the stadium's speakers is going to be magical.

[Deleted]

hifigator said:

In any case, the statistic I heard is that just over 90% of all federal indictments are settled before trial by plea bargain and of the remaining cases, there is a 95% conviction rate.

The feds don't make these charges whimsically. They already have their testimony. They already have cell phone and financial records. They already have forensic and lab results. Basically, they are ready to go to trial and win before they get the indictment.

You should probably throw in some form of citation there, hifi... after all, 99.99% of that post is lifted directly from Cowturd's rants this morning.

As for whether or not Vick is the mastermind, I don't think it will matter much what role he played in terms of the day-to-day operations of Bad Newz - as Healy mentioned, he cut the checks. It was his property. He paid for the secondary structures behind the house to be built, signed the contracts to put up fences, etc. He may not have been the Boris Badenov of the operation, but he was certainly the money man... and that's all its going to take to ruin him in court.

Especially when, as Healy pointed out, you can bet your ass his at least ONE of his buddies involved in this is going to be rolling on him.

From a football standpoint, do the Falcons cut him now? Wait for an outcome in the court case? Does The Commish crush him like a fly now, or wait for a resolution (I say yes, especially since Vick apparently lied right to his face)? Can Vick ever recover enough from this P.R. hit for an NFL team to want him in the future?

[hifigator]

ed said:

"That's true Ed, but the difference here is that this is a federal indictment, not some two bit schmuck in Carolina looking to get elected ... or to steal a line from Fletch ... "Peckerhead Hannerhan bucking for a promotion."

Or, perhaps, they will find there was no crime committed by him but will get Vick under oath and find him guilty of lying under oath or obstruction of justice.
Signed: Special Investigator Fitzgerald.

I don't know the level of your sarcasm here. In any case, that just doesn't happen. If the statistics I referenced earlier are accurate, then a whopping 99.5% of all indictments result in guilty pleas or conviction.

[ExcitableBoy]

I was shocked to see that "if convicted of all the charges, Vick and the others could face up to six years in prison, $350,000 in fines and restitution."

Six years? That's it? The stuff alleged in the indictment is simply repulsive and he faces only six years in prison?

[Deleted]

ed said:

Or, perhaps, they will find there was no crime committed by him but will get Vick under oath and find him guilty of lying under oath or obstruction of justice.
Signed: Special Investigator Fitzgerald. Ken Starr

[hifigator]

Buff, actually I didn't hear a lot of Colin this morning because I was driving in from the lake. Until I get within about 14 or 15 miles, I can't get our local AM station. I had it on, but for all intents and purposes, it was unlistenable until I was about 15 minutes from the store. I did go to the ESPN webiste though and check out a few articles and interviews.

What did Colin say about Vick? Was he cutting him any slack and mentioning things like the Duke lacrosse team or was he throwing him under the bus? He is generally pretty slow to jump on a bandwagon. He has been a supporter of Kobe, T.O. and Bonds as long as I can remember. I could see him taking either angle on this one right now, but regardless of what he says now, after it all shakes out he will claim to have been on the right side all along.

[AustinHoya03]

healyhoya said:

Second, the conspiracy charge is essentially a legal catch-all. It suggests to any competent defense attorney that the prosecution believes they can establish that the accused's level of participation, knowledge, and involvement in the scheme was so thorough, so complete that the actions of any of the other accused individuals can be attributed to Vick. In other words, for those saying that this indictment DOES NOT mean the federal government is preparing to represent Michael Vick as the "criminal mastermind" behind this dog-fighting ring, think again. Conspiracy indicates evidence of financial facilitation of illegal activities, direct and indirect participation in illegal activities, control and/or influence over the illegal activities, etc.

Clarification of my earlier comments:

The charges are all the same, but details in the indictment may affect the offer each co-defendant receives. If an armed bank robber and the driver of the getaway car are both charged with conspiracy and robbery, it wouldn't be out of the question for the driver to receive a slightly more generous plea deal than the dude who stuck a gun in the teller's mouth.

Here, Vick did put up the money, but that is less abhorrent to most people than some of the other allegations contained in the indictment (although Vick is accused of killing dogs as well). If the case goes to trial, the defendants will be tried separately, and then of course the United States will paint Vick as the chief enabler in this scheme. But we're a long way from a trial.