McNabb kills Eagles and gets Credit??

[RDF]

McNabb throws 2 INTS for TD's, a pass short of endzone in last 9 seconds of 1st Half and with no timeouts which costs his team a shot at FG and the Eagles lose to Bucs by 2 points on a 62 yard FG in a game they outgain them 501 yards to 197. So what does the media do? They talk about how "VALIANT" and "GUTTY" McNabb was--are you kidding me? Look I know he's the guy they like more then T.O. in the ongoing feud of prima donnas, but can't we just call it like it is--the QB lost the game for the Eagles yesterday. A game is 60 minutes long and despite Brian Westbrook's efforts to help the team win the game--that last TD was all Westbrook and nothing of McNabb's doing, the QB put them in position to lose.

I think McNabb's done a fine job this year and really been in contention for MVP at this point--but you have to call it like it is and he lost that game yesterday with some poor play--it happens to everyone and yet the Announcers/Media skip over it like it's nothing--now if he were Aaron Brooks and did this or Drew Bledsoe, things would be different. I just wonder if it's a rule you can't criticize McNabb, Favre, Manning, or Brady at any cost? I know a lot of media/talking heads are Syracuse alums but my goodness this was beyond odd when discussing yesterday's game. And it also brings more credibility to the Eagle players who mentioned he was dry heaving during last drive of Super Bowl--which everyone swept under the rug.

As a guy who isn't a McNabb/Eagle fan, I like to think I'm at least impartial here--when he plays great game, I give him all the credit and he's been fantastic the opening half of the season, but yesterday was as BAD OF A LOSS as you can have in a game you should win by at least 2 TD's and he gets "credit". This is where media loses all respect. If it were Terrell Owens who puked on field or fumbled 2 times and cost his team the game, we'd definately be hearing about it--just wish these guys would be more objective and consistent in reporting and less of a "fan/cheerleader". McNabb yesterday reached the "Favre zone" where you ignore all ignorant throws/plays and just praise because of the name on back of jersey and fact he's a "Good Guy".

Feel bad for Joe Hoya knowing he's a big Eagle fan and that one had to be a tough one to swallow--and down the line this game could haunt the Eagles in their chances for Division and Playoff Hunt.

[TBird41]

Considering he was puking on the sidelines yesterday, I'd say that he was probably doing so during the Super Bowl.

deadspin.com/sports/nfl/donovan-mcnabb-has-a-weak-constitution-209400.php

[BeantownHoya]

Brady has never done anything wrong. : )

[hifigator]

One of the pick 6's by Rhonde Barber was great individual effort, much like the lead taking late TD from Westbrook. I don't think McNabb deserves a lot of cretit or criticism for either. His guttiness was shown in leading his team to a lead after being down 17-0 late in the third quarter. Of course some of that was his own doing. Still, not "giving up" and putting leading your team back to at least a shot at a win from such a deficit is admiarable.

[RDF]

Hifi, you just don't get it about sports do you? The Eagles are a superior team, and McNabb stunk all day--you don't get credit for being the better team and "leading your team back" when you put them in the position to lose in first place. It was an AWFUL GAME from him--not season, not from lack of effort, but he stunk yesterday and for whatever reason the media turned into "Donovan did all he could"--well no he didn't-he caused this team to lose this game with his poor play-again for a GAME, and they still don't criticize the guy. I'm just tired of certain people being teflon with the media and others seen as the Bin Laden of Sports World--facts are facts and McNabb stunk yesterday and yet the NFL Media refuses to ever criticize certain players in that league and it's pathetic. Total lack of credibility on their part.

As for "not giving up"--what the hell do you think this is? Florida? You are NOT supposed to give up and I know that's hard to believe when you are used to seeing Gators play football and they have no heart--at least the majority of players and I'll get to another prime example of Gators being stiffs in a minute. Barber had a gift on the first pick six and on the second, he broke on ball and McNabb is nowhere to be found and it wasn't like a 10 yard return--heck Westbrook almost caught Barber from behind and McNabb is where? The guy can play a bad game--everyone can but it'd be nice to hear Favre, Manning, McNabb etc... didn't get it done instead of making excuses or ignoring reality as the "Talking Heads" love to do.

As for the latest example of cowardly UF alums--I point to Mr. Darrell Jackson of the Seahawks-who in a span of 15 plays in 2nd Half:

1. Dropped a TD Pass from Seneca Wallace
2. Had Alligator Arms on a pass and my personal favorite

3---On a 3rd and 8, Jackson runs a dig pattern and has ball at first down marker with Antione Winfield trailing which is by a good 5 feet and what does Jackson do?? He dives BACKWARDS to cost his team the first down and avoid getting hit and Winfield would've never gotten close to tackling him-if Jackson dives forward he gets 1st Down with ease--why he dove at all is beyond me, but he dives backwards, costs his team the 1st Down and then gives the "sheepish" MY BAD and smiles--what a testosterone-less queen. I mean seriously, this is up there with Chad Jacksons' Peach Bowl Play or any Chris Leak run.

If I were Holmgren, Wallace, or any Seahawk, I'd have taken him by the facemask and made him use the Dental Plan in the NFL. COWARDLY or should it be "GATORLY" from here on out?? They are the masters of being cowards and it's just amazing.

So I take back what I said Hifi--I can see where you would say that about McNabb's game yesterday--when you are used to "competitors" like the UF Football program produces, I can see why you would commend a Pro for his "effort" and not "quitting".

[hifigator]

Obviously my tone didn't come through at all. I wasn't intending to praise McNabb in the slightest. In fact I saw very little of the game since our lake house is "zoned" for Miami and Jacksonville. The good old fashioned rabbit ears were making it rather difficult to focus on the Bucs game.

My only point was that often players reap too much praise for stats and the opposite happens as well. Of the limited action that I saw, both Barber and Westbrook made big plays and deserve credit. Yes, you could praise or criticize McNabb for his roles on either play, but in my opinion the attention is more warranted in other directions. Accordingly, several Bucs missed tackles on Westbrook's late TD, most notably All-Pro Derrick Brooks -- who by the way is a Seminole and therefore not by any means one of my "boys." I am just pointing out that both praise and credit often falls where it doesn't belong. Your very point was that McNabb is getting all of this "praise" and then you mention the dominance in statistics that the Eagles had. I am agreeing with you that McNabb didn't deserve much of the "praise" he was getting. Accordingly, one criticism which sould be lofted in his direction is a bit deceiving as well, and Barber deserves credit for making a big time play ... just like Westbrook did late in the game. Great running and vision .... maybe. Bad/poor tackling ... probably ... but there is a degree of grey area don't you think?

I expect Brooks to make that tackle and if he does the whole game would have been different. Maybe the Eagles never take the lead ... or maybe it takes just enough longer that Bryant never gets a shot at the 62 yarder ... who knows.


In any case, I wasn't trying to praise McNabb and in looking back I can see how you would have thought that. My mistake for not finishing the thought. Dang customers came in and bothered me before I was done ...

[miamihoya]

I hate the way the media treats Donovan Mcnabb...its come to the point that even when he is doing very good (as he had all season), i still detest him because of how overrated he has been at other points in his career. I'm not sure where it comes from (well i have some ideas), but there is definatley a bias when it comes to McNabb, as opposed to other qbs who put up similar numbers.

[hifigator]

Incidentally, I wouldn't argue that the Eagles are a better team right now than the Bucs. But I would point out that the Bucs are not nearly as bad as they have shown. They did a tremendous upgrade when they decided on Gradkowski. Why they kept Sims instead of Griese in the first place is beyond me. In any case, they have been playing a lot better ball since they benched Sims. They really should have beaten the Saint in New Orleans and would have were it not for late game heroics by Reggie Bush. And since then they have won two tough games. I kind of wish I had been in town so I could have watched that game instead. The Jaguars stunk up the joint like they alwasy do at least once per season againt the Texans and the Dolphins made Brett look like the Favre of old ... not that it bothers me since I am not a Dolphin fan in the least ... Still would rather have seen the Bucs-Eagles game.

[TBird41]

miamihoya said:

I hate the way the media treats Donovan Mcnabb...its come to the point that even when he is doing very good (as he had all season), i still detest him because of how overrated he has been at other points in his career. I'm not sure where it comes from (well i have some ideas), but there is definatley a bias when it comes to McNabb, as opposed to other qbs who put up similar numbers.

It's what I like to call the "Brett Farve" treatement

[EasyEd]

Rush Limbaugh got thrown off of Monday Night football for saying what some of you are implying.

[RockawayHoya]

Why are we wasting time talking about McNabb and the Eagles? The real NFC East threats are playing tonight...

[Joe Hoya]

First of all, I did not see anything after the first quarter because I had to work. It is the first game I have missed since GU got DirecTV and NFL Sunday Ticket in the Alumni Lounge. Afterwards, I refuse to watch any of it because I might McNabb all over my television.

RDF, you are far from impartial. I have never seen you praise Donovan, only hammer him when things go wrong (Super Puke, last year's hernia/groin/Owens-gate, time management issues both real and perceived, and now this). If you do not like #5, that's fine; God knows nobody else in THIS town does.

I do not see how Donovan is overrated. He is head and shoulders above everyone else in the NFC as far as ability. The only thing he HASN'T done is win a Super Bowl. Neither has Peyton Manning. Neither has Eli Manning. Neither has (insert great quarterback not named Brady, Favre, or Roethlisberger). The only time I ever hear anyone talk positively about him is when I put on ESPN and hear Wilbon praise him (and as a Chicago guy I would expect that).

In Philadelphia, Donovan McNabb is #5, but he is Public Enemy #1. Why? I have no idea. Is it because he's black? I don't know. Randall Cunningham got a similar treatment, so unfortunately, there might be something to that. Is it because he throws up every now and then? It could be. Near as I figure, he has played in twelve playoff games, won seven of them, been knocked out of one of them with cracked ribs, and has dry-heaved in one of them. Granted, that one was the biggest of them all, but still...this perceived track record of honking big games is just that. They lost a playoff game against the Giants in 2000 (who went to the Super Bowl) when NY was the best team in the conference by far. They lost to the Rams when they were still the Greatest Show on Turf. They lost to Tampa Bay when the defense decided that tackling was overrated. They lost to Carolina when Koy Detmer played most of the game. They lost to New England when the coaches thought they could score a ten-point touchdown by holding the ball for six minutes. McNabb did not play well against Tampa, but he was in his second game back from a broken leg. He wasn't all that great against Atlanta the week before, but the Falcons weren't really all that good so he didn't need to be. He didn't play too well against New England, but still kept them in a position to win the game if they managed the clock better, and then he most likely got a concussion and felt the effects of it down the stretch (he will never admit it, but you could tell, if you watched the team all season, that something wasn't right at the end).

That's the other thing I don't get with the McNabb-bashing. He is NOT a prima donna, he NEVER takes a play off, and will NEVER admit to the fact that in reality, he should not have been on the field for the biggest drive in the biggest game of his life because he was hurt. Some (like RDF) like to point to the 2004 NFC Championship, when he hurt his ribs. When it's 25 degrees out, and you've cracked your ribs, throw a football. Go ahead, try it. Not something you should be doing, not something you even CAN do. Sure, he hurt his team with three interceptions (two of them were tipped balls by awful receivers but nevermind), but when he literally COULD NOT PLAY, it was Koy Detmer time. Last season, he was injured in the first game of the season. He was injured on a LATE, LEADING-WITH-THE-HELMET hit. The referees did not see fit to throw a flag, which was unfortunate because the interception that ensued led to a Falcons touchdown, which ended up being the difference in a 17-14 loss. Now, I can legitimately point to this because the punk who did it was fined the next day by the league. The NFL doesn't fine you for solid play. My point, I think, is that Donovan McNabb is not "soft," he is not a "prima donna," and he will never give less than everything he's got. He wants to win, he wants to win badly, and he wants to do it here, in this town, with this coach, with this team, for these fans. And instead of loving him for it, they treat him like he wears a blue star on his helmet. It makes me sick.

If you want to talk about truly overrated quarterbacks who have never won anything and do not deserve the massive slurping they constantly get, there's one guy I have in mind. He wears number 7 for the Atlanta Falcons, and occasionally uses the alias "Mexico."

(Yes, I realize this is probably not a very good comparison to make in light of the performance of both of these players yesterday...but it's a point worth making nonetheless.)

Lest you all think I'm a shameless, unabashed Philadelphiapologist, I agree the pass at the end of the half (again, that I have only read about) was something of a brain fart. I also think Bob Clarke's resignation is about six years overdue. I also agree that Charlie Manuel should be retained as the Phillies' manager, but only because he did something right (for the first time ever) between July and September. And the Sixers...well, the less said about them, the better. I just feel that I know more about the Eagles than anyone else on here, and as the self-appointed HoyaTalk Eagle Pundit, when you go after my guys, I'm going to defend them, and probably use more examples and evidence than anyone cares to read.

[Joe Hoya]

rockawayhoya said:

Why are we wasting time talking about McNabb and the Eagles? The real NFC East threats are playing tonight...

The Eagles will win this division, likely by at least two games. Dallas is going to implode soon, and the Giants aren't anywhere near as good as the Eagles. Yes, they won that game in Week 2, but if you honestly believe for one second that the Giants were the better team on the field, then my friend, let's hope no drug-sniffing dogs happen to pass you on the street.

FACT: The Eagles are 4-3.
ALSO FACT: The Eagles have trailed with :01 remaining in the fourth quarter of ZERO games this season.

I know..."SCOREBOARD!"...but still, it warrants mentioning.

[hoyaboy1]

I have 2 quick points -

First, I haven't seen much praise of McNabb's overall game at all. He is getting credit for leading a great comeback effort, but I don't see anybody saying he played a great game.

Second, sorry RDF, but McNabb didn't "stink all day." He made two bad passes, and 1 pick that wasn't totally his fault. Now, those were huge, huge mistakes. But for the rets of the time he played great football, moving the ball at will against the Bucs. Gradkowski stunk all day. McNabb was generally very good, but unfortunately had 3 huge mistakes.

I know this is one of your pet issues, but I think this is a case of you seeing only what you want to see.

[FLHoya]

joehoya said:

If you want to talk about truly overrated quarterbacks who have never won anything and do not deserve the massive slurping they constantly get, there's one guy I have in mind. He wears number 7 for the Atlanta Falcons, and occasionally uses the alias "Mexico."

(Yes, I realize this is probably not a very good comparison to make in light of the performance of both of these players yesterday...but it's a point worth making nonetheless.)

That and the fact that one of the big ESPN analysis pieces that was up on the front page all week was about how Atlanta was wasting its running game...which they then followed up with one of their smarter offensive playbooks in a long time that happened to be very pass-happy.

I think if you watched more Falcons games and read more articles lately, you'd conclude that most commentators have "figured out" Vick...I really don't see the slurping thing any more. I guess if you could show me some examples, but I don't read many magazines and newspapers placing him in the top 10 or even top 20 NFL QB's sometimes. Even in his breakout season, the praise of Vick was always done in the context of him being a great athlete (which he is) rather than a great QB (which he isn't).

But awesome non sequiter nonetheless.

[Filo]

joehoya said:

In Philadelphia, Donovan McNabb is #5, but he is Public Enemy #1. Why? I have no idea. Is it because he's black? I don't know. Randall Cunningham got a similar treatment, so unfortunately, there might be something to that.

Unfortunately, there is probably a bit of that, but I don't really see that as the issue. In Philadelphia, it is not so much the race of the player as the limelight the player is in (remember Mike Schmidt? Well maybe not, but you have read about him, right? ;D).

Anyway, I am not a fan of McNabb. And not all of his teammates are either. (Also - his hands were far from clean in the whole TO debacle.)

[Joe Hoya]

The people in this town have been on him since the second he was drafted. When he started, he ran too much, he needed to settle down and throw. Now, he's "scared to run" because he might get hurt. Before, he was too inaccurate, too many bad picks. The truth is, he has thrown an interception once every 45 passes. Only one man, the stellar Neil O'Donnell, has a better ratio (1 in 47). Whatever he does...he cannot win with these people. This makes me sad.

Michael Vick is overrated. Until he lifts a Lombardi Trophy, or hell, the George Halas Trophy, I will not entertain arguments to the contrary. Sorry, bud.

And yes, I remember Mike Schmidt. I was born the night he hit a home run to beat the Dodgers 1-0 in game one of the '83 NLCS. My mother missed the game, and I don't think she's forgiven me since.

[PhillyHoya]

joehoya said:

Michael Vick is overrated. Until he lifts a Lombardi Trophy, or hell, the George Halas Trophy, I will not entertain arguments to the contrary. Sorry, bud.

Well, maybe other weeks that applies but let's look at what happened this week:

Michael Vick - threw 3TD passes to Alge Crumpler.
Donovan McNabb - threw 2TD passes to...Ronde Barber.

Enjoy third place Iggles. GO GIANTS! GO BIG BLUE!

[RDF]

joehoya said:

First of all, I did not see anything after the first quarter because I had to work. It is the first game I have missed since GU got DirecTV and NFL Sunday Ticket in the Alumni Lounge. Afterwards, I refuse to watch any of it because I might McNabb all over my television.

RDF, you are far from impartial. I have never seen you praise Donovan, only hammer him when things go wrong (Super Puke, last year's hernia/groin/Owens-gate, time management issues both real and perceived, and now this). If you do not like #5, that's fine; God knows nobody else in THIS town does.

I do not see how Donovan is overrated. He is head and shoulders above everyone else in the NFC as far as ability. The only thing he HASN'T done is win a Super Bowl. Neither has Peyton Manning. Neither has Eli Manning. Neither has (insert great quarterback not named Brady, Favre, or Roethlisberger). The only time I ever hear anyone talk positively about him is when I put on ESPN and hear Wilbon praise him (and as a Chicago guy I would expect that).

In Philadelphia, Donovan McNabb is #5, but he is Public Enemy #1. Why? I have no idea. Is it because he's black? I don't know. Randall Cunningham got a similar treatment, so unfortunately, there might be something to that. Is it because he throws up every now and then? It could be. Near as I figure, he has played in twelve playoff games, won seven of them, been knocked out of one of them with cracked ribs, and has dry-heaved in one of them. Granted, that one was the biggest of them all, but still...this perceived track record of honking big games is just that. They lost a playoff game against the Giants in 2000 (who went to the Super Bowl) when NY was the best team in the conference by far. They lost to the Rams when they were still the Greatest Show on Turf. They lost to Tampa Bay when the defense decided that tackling was overrated. They lost to Carolina when Koy Detmer played most of the game. They lost to New England when the coaches thought they could score a ten-point touchdown by holding the ball for six minutes. McNabb did not play well against Tampa, but he was in his second game back from a broken leg. He wasn't all that great against Atlanta the week before, but the Falcons weren't really all that good so he didn't need to be. He didn't play too well against New England, but still kept them in a position to win the game if they managed the clock better, and then he most likely got a concussion and felt the effects of it down the stretch (he will never admit it, but you could tell, if you watched the team all season, that something wasn't right at the end).

That's the other thing I don't get with the McNabb-bashing. He is NOT a prima donna, he NEVER takes a play off, and will NEVER admit to the fact that in reality, he should not have been on the field for the biggest drive in the biggest game of his life because he was hurt. Some (like RDF) like to point to the 2004 NFC Championship, when he hurt his ribs. When it's 25 degrees out, and you've cracked your ribs, throw a football. Go ahead, try it. Not something you should be doing, not something you even CAN do. Sure, he hurt his team with three interceptions (two of them were tipped balls by awful receivers but nevermind), but when he literally COULD NOT PLAY, it was Koy Detmer time. Last season, he was injured in the first game of the season. He was injured on a LATE, LEADING-WITH-THE-HELMET hit. The referees did not see fit to throw a flag, which was unfortunate because the interception that ensued led to a Falcons touchdown, which ended up being the difference in a 17-14 loss. Now, I can legitimately point to this because the punk who did it was fined the next day by the league. The NFL doesn't fine you for solid play. My point, I think, is that Donovan McNabb is not "soft," he is not a "prima donna," and he will never give less than everything he's got. He wants to win, he wants to win badly, and he wants to do it here, in this town, with this coach, with this team, for these fans. And instead of loving him for it, they treat him like he wears a blue star on his helmet. It makes me sick.

If you want to talk about truly overrated quarterbacks who have never won anything and do not deserve the massive slurping they constantly get, there's one guy I have in mind. He wears number 7 for the Atlanta Falcons, and occasionally uses the alias "Mexico."

(Yes, I realize this is probably not a very good comparison to make in light of the performance of both of these players yesterday...but it's a point worth making nonetheless.)

Lest you all think I'm a shameless, unabashed Philadelphiapologist, I agree the pass at the end of the half (again, that I have only read about) was something of a brain fart. I also think Bob Clarke's resignation is about six years overdue. I also agree that Charlie Manuel should be retained as the Phillies' manager, but only because he did something right (for the first time ever) between July and September. And the Sixers...well, the less said about them, the better. I just feel that I know more about the Eagles than anyone else on here, and as the self-appointed HoyaTalk Eagle Pundit, when you go after my guys, I'm going to defend them, and probably use more examples and evidence than anyone cares to read.

Joe--get some new knee pads for that slurp job pal--that was beyond pathetic. I gave the guy credit and I'm impartial--I just call it as I see it and not having any emotional tie, the guy stunk yesterday and was given credit--and for the poster who said "he only made two bad throws"--yeah--and how many points did it cost his team?? They are 4-3 and have played 2 decent teams-not good--but decent in Giants and New Orleans--the schedule will get more difficult and they have found ways to lose games--which is just being honest.

If you read the post and title of it, it's talking about the MEDIA Joe--not McNabb. I also admit to not caring for McNabb, but praised his play this season and didn't bring up the fact he hasn't had a fine season. I think he's done all you can ask of a QB this year and is by far the best QB in the NFC at this point in the season.

As for the past Eagle teams--their defense carried them and they haven't been same since they got the new CB's--who are good and overrated in the "great" praise. Smaller/less physical players then Vincent/Taylor who made the Eagle defense special.

You can whine about McNabb "hating" all you want--but ask yourself this--if you gave a lot of other Hall of Fame/Great QB's homefield as many times as McNabb has had it in his career already--you think they are not getting to the Super Bowl more then once--and against the overrated Michael Vick which I am in agreement with you on. I think many players in that league are overrated as well--not just those guys as it really started with Favre lovefests during his ignorant plays and it was shown tonight in the Dallas-NYG game--do you think Favre gets blasted for making the stupid plays that Bledsoe/Romo made tonight? Heck no and it's why I am bringing up the ignorance of them and how they ignore poor performances from certain players in this league.

I'm all for praise when it's deserved but when a guy plays a game where he costs you at least 17 pts--with his 2 INT for TD's and failure to get the ball to endzone or throw it away to set up FG before the Half--he didn't play a good game for a guy who has had a great year--and all you hear is "He was valiant in defeat" Give me a break.

Philly fans are better than that--you are better than that Joe--read the post--it's not about McNabb--it's about the treatment of him/other players in this league when they don't play a great game. I'm all for praising McNabb's performance in the other 6 games but he killed them yesterday.

[Joe Hoya]

phillyhoya said:

joehoya said:

Michael Vick is overrated. Until he lifts a Lombardi Trophy, or hell, the George Halas Trophy, I will not entertain arguments to the contrary. Sorry, bud.

Well, maybe other weeks that applies but let's look at what happened this week:

Michael Vick - threw 3TD passes to Alge Crumpler.
Donovan McNabb - threw 2TD passes to...Ronde Barber.

Enjoy third place Iggles. GO GIANTS! GO BIG BLUE!

Two things:

First, I said this week was not the best time to make the statement, but I was standing by it. Although, when you throw more than two TDs for the first time in four seasons, I guess people will think you are the second coming.

Second, when only one team is ahead of you (by a half game no less) in the standings, you are in second place. I know they don't stress math in the SFS but geez...