World Cup

[thebin]

I agree the Boston shot was sorta random, but they really just trying to pull out all the stops to push soccer in America, so don't see why it would Edited you off if you are a fan of the Cup. I am guessing that was the biggest public viewing in the US. Lame? Yeah, I guess. But the motivation isn't that we need Northeastern approval, its to try and make it look like a real deal even in the States. Is it a trick for the weak-minded? Sure, but not sure why it invokes wrath.

On the other hand, Ital Americans rooting for Italy over the US? That is infuriating. Unless you were born in Italy or lived there for SEVERAL years, that's friggen inexcusable. Of course you can support the azzuri as well, but over the US? Spineless guidos. Can we have a public naming of these losers? Come forward and be counted.

[RDF]

thebin said:

I agree the Boston shot was sorta random, but they really just trying to pull out all the stops to push soccer in America, so don't see why it would Edited you off if you are a fan of the Cup. I am guessing that was the biggest public viewing in the US. Lame? Yeah, I guess. But the motivation isn't that we need Northeastern approval, its to try and make it look like a real deal even in the States. Is it a trick for the weak-minded? Sure, but not sure why it invokes wrath.

On the other hand, Ital Americans rooting for Italy over the US? That is infuriating. Unless you were born in Italy or lived there for SEVERAL years, that's friggen inexcusable. Of course you can support the azzuri as well, but over the US? Spineless guidos. Can we have a public naming of these losers? Come forward and be counted.

Completely disagree--I pulled for Brazil--mainly because I enjoy the style of play and free flowing game they play and I love being an American but when it comes to Sport, I pull for the team that captures my interest/I enjoy watching.

For instance, I hate the Dream Teams that have followed the initial one and often root against US in these competitions--especially with the "Tar Heel Mafia" Karl and Brown gooning up things--and now Coach K--I will pull for Argentina or anyone else out of my dislike of him. I know that seems unpatriotic, but it's also narrow minded to think if you live in a certain area of country or certain country you HAVE to pull for that team. I love the Hoyas and grew up/live in Midwest and tire of hearing "you like Georgetown and live in Minnesota? You are a traitor". WTF is that about? Like/follow who you want.

Do appreciate the response to why it was shown and didn't know that--which maybe would've made sense if ABC passed the info you guys did--which isn't to be expected from someone covering an event is it? -I'd rather have seen Italy/France crowd shots as we saw after the game was concluded.

And why do I get flashbacks to John Starks head butting of Reggie Miller with the event that happened today?

[Nevada Hoya]

ZZ=thug (blows to the chest have been known to cause heart attacks). Fine way to end his career!

Refs pulled a make up call when they did not call a PK on the "real" foul in the box, making up for the fake foul they called that allowed France to lead.

Buffon=no cafone

And in my phonetic spelling on the state of Italy right now: e chu da batz!

[RusskyHoya]

As for what set Zidane off, I'm willing to bet that it was a racial comment, directed at either Zidane (Algerian/Arab) or the black players on the French side.

[AustinHoya03]

hoyasincebirth said:

I love zidane
WOW that head butt was awesome one of the craziest things i've seen on a soccer pitch.
And that pk he took how guts was that to pull a stunt like that in the world cup final to chip in the goal like that when it's so easy to miss that way.
Was hopping for a france win, but oh well. a good entertaining game.

I am glad someone else actually liked the headbutt. ABC/ESPN kept using the word "vicious" to describe Zidane's actions. These guys need to watch a Premier League game. Want to kill MLS ratings, ESPN? Keep talking about how sticking up for yourself when you're a legend and some pansy diver from Trieste is talking about your mother is unacceptable in soccer. That kind of heart is exactly the type of stuff American audiences want to see on the pitch. The only way it would have been better would be if the Italian had stood up and fought back instead of lying on the grass. Saying "this will be Zidane's legacy now" (Eric Wynalda) isn't true and furthers the myth in America that soccer is merely a game for 5 year olds. Is it football season yet?

I'll admit, the headbutt merited a red card. But let's not act like Zidane went all Last Boyscout out there on the pitch.

[SFHoya99]

He should have been sent off, but the headbutt was hardly as bad as it looked with the usual flop of the Italian player.

I can't believe I agree with the bin. I can understand some of the dream team sentiment, but I think it is ridiculous to root for another country over your own, esp. given how much benefit you get simply from being born American/

[SoCal Hoya85]

austinhoya03 said:

hoyasincebirth said:

I love zidane
WOW that head butt was awesome one of the craziest things i've seen on a soccer pitch.
And that pk he took how guts was that to pull a stunt like that in the world cup final to chip in the goal like that when it's so easy to miss that way.
Was hopping for a france win, but oh well. a good entertaining game.

I am glad someone else actually liked the headbutt. ABC/ESPN kept using the word "vicious" to describe Zidane's actions. These guys need to watch a Premier League game. Want to kill MLS ratings, ESPN? Keep talking about how sticking up for yourself when you're a legend and some pansy diver from Trieste is talking about your mother is unacceptable in soccer. That kind of heart is exactly the type of stuff American audiences want to see on the pitch. The only way it would have been better would be if the Italian had stood up and fought back instead of lying on the grass. Saying "this will be Zidane's legacy now" (Eric Wynalda) isn't true and furthers the myth in America that soccer is merely a game for 5 year olds. Is it football season yet?

I'll admit, the headbutt merited a red card. But let's not act like Zidane went all Last Boyscout out there on the pitch.

What Zidane did was classless and inexcusable. I don't know how anyone can justify sucker headbutting someone on the pitch. I don't care what the Italian said to him, violence was not the appropriate response. Its sad to see that lack of sportsmanship actually celebrated, it wasn't cool, manly, or showed heart- it was selfish and stupid. I would disown him as a fan. What a punk.

When your a legend you don't stick up for yourself by headbutting a trash talker, you talk right back as you score the winning goal MJ style. I for one don't want to see that kind of 'heart' in soccer, I want less diving.

[afirth]

I'm too angry and upset right now to comment on the result of today's game, but I can comment on people out there who are criticizing people born in the US for rooting for other countries. I think 007 said it best awhile ago:

"As for rooting for Poland, anyone who gives me crap can continue to do so and I honestly don't care.

My mom was born and grew up in Poland, she moved to the US when she was 19. She is the single most influential person in my life by a long shot. I may have been born and grew up in the US, but I've been travelling to Poland since I was 9 months old. I've been there about 15 times and have spent most of my summers there. My mom started speaking to me in Polish as a baby and I knew more Polish than English when I first started speaking. I still pretty much only talk to my mom in Polish, I have tons of friends and family in Poland, I am a Polish citizen and have an incredible love for the country. I could go on with more reasons why I root for Poland but the point is that I love the country and will always root for Poland over the US if they are competing.

This is not to say that I don't love the US too, I think I feel much the same way that miamihoya does and its hard for people to understand this unless they are in a similar situation."


That is exactly how I feel about France. I like America and I don't take it for granted, but my French heritage is an important part of who I am and who my family is. I grew up watching French football because my family raised me with it; I grew up liking the French team. Growing up I spent my summers in Quebec, and being in Montreal in '98 when France won is one of the best memories of my life. I didn't hop on some bandwagon because I'm 1/8th the nationality and felt like it would be cool to root for a European team.

So if anyone wants to have a public naming of me as a "loser," go right ahead.

[SFHoya99]

I don't consider you a loser, I just consider it ungrateful. It's not like I hate you or 007 or anything. I realize that people often don't pick their teams; their teams pick them. And maybe I shouldn't tie sports and other parts of life. But for 99% of the Americans rooting for other teams because of heritage, that other country has never done anything for them, and frankly, they do it subconsciously because a) the US sucks and has sucked and b) rooting for a different team is a way to differentiate yourself, whether they know it or not.

What annoys me is people who "love" another country, constantly criticize the US, but still live here because the life is better.

[Nitrorebel]

First off, Zizzzzzzzzzzzzoooooooooouuuuuuuuuuu!!! Oh my God, what happened?! I have hardly ever rooted harder for a non-Bayern player in a game, and then this?! Interesting take Russky that it may have been a racial comment that set him off. Italian football is full of racist and right-wing pricks in the game. Either way, it's inexcusable, and more than that it's so tragic it happened in the biggest game and his final one at that.

Zidane is one of the all-time greats; he's a Pele, Beckenbauer, Cruyff legend. Oh well, everyone's human, even a legend.

France was the better team, and losing on penalties sucks. Esp. when the miss was so close.

Congrats to the Italians for battling all the adversity and overcoming the lack of talent in midfield and attack with passion and teamwork.

Finally, I'm with RDF on the national team thing. I was happy Germany did well, but I support those teams that are helping football by playing a fun and clean game. Germany and Argentina were those teams for me this World Cup. Now if we're talking clubs... I'll give you a head-butt worse than Zidane's if you say something against Bayern

[washingtonhoya]

Zidane's headbutt was a shameful act no matter the context of what was said to him, but I can't say he's a punk for headbutting Materazzi in the chest. SoCalHoya85, watch some of Materazzi's career "highlights" of him going cleats up into someone's knee and tell me Zidane's the punk. Materazzi's a thug who finally had someone refuse to take his b.s. and stand up to him. Materazzi's a symbol of everything wrong with Italian soccer: A dirty player who is hailed as a hero at Inter by the same violent cavemen you'll see in Milan, but also at Lazio, Roma, Juve, etc. This damages Zizou's legacy surely, but it's not as if he were hailed as an angel before this incident, esp. given his previous red card for a headbutt against SV Hamburger when he was with Juve in the 01 CL. Still one of the top 10 players to ever play the sport, and when he refuses to take crap from an Italian thug like so many referees, other players, and corrupt Italian soccer authorities willingly do, he earns a modicum more respect from me. I know it seems like I'm defending a pretty classless act, but he couldn't have headbutted a better guy.

[afirth]

I guess that's an interesting way to put it, but I still don't consider it "ungrateful" that I support France in this one particular sport. For the record, I don't hate America. I like visiting Quebec and France and staying with my family there, but I do not plan on living there when I'm older. I'm well aware of the better opportunities where I am. I also support the USA in most other sporting endeavours - like the Olympics, for instance.

It's just that the France football team SPECIFICALLY is the team that I have been raised to love. When you spend summers in a French-speaking province, especially World Cup summers, you can't really imagine rooting for anyone else. It's almost more of a family thing for me than a French-pride thing. And it certainly has nothing to do with anti-American sentiment.

Additionally, the US being bad at football in no way affects my opinion of the team. As for rooting for a different team to differentiate yourself, I personally feel that, given my background, I'd actually be differentiating myself if I rooted for team USA (and incurring a lot of family wrath).


As for Zidane, of course I'm disappointed that he ended his career this way, but I do not think his career is tarnished by this, and I still find him to be the greatest footballer of his generation. That is not to say I am upset by his choice, but I will not disown him as a fan, and I don't blame France's loss on him. Of course, I'm not really in a rational state of mind right now, so maybe I should not elaborate on this until later.

[RusskyHoya]

sfhoya99 said:

I don't consider you a loser, I just consider it ungrateful. It's not like I hate you or 007 or anything. I realize that people often don't pick their teams; their teams pick them. And maybe I shouldn't tie sports and other parts of life. But for 99% of the Americans rooting for other teams because of heritage, that other country has never done anything for them, and frankly, they do it subconsciously because a) the US stinks and has sucked and b) rooting for a different team is a way to differentiate yourself, whether they know it or not.

What annoys me is people who "love" another country, constantly criticize the US, but still live here because the life is better.

Um yes, of course people do it to differentiate themselves. We're a nation of immigrants - what constitutes an American is so wide-ranging that it's really rather difficult for many people to feel solidarity with "all Americans" and the U.S. as one big unit. When people speak about "middle America" and "American values," they're generally not thinking about Asians/Hispanics/Muslims/Arabs/etc. Those groups are always aware of the fact that they don't fit the standard American mold, so they look to their roots for solidarity. Even groups that are more accepted now, but weren't in the past (Italians and Irish come to mind) follow this pattern. And when they're called ethnic slurs ("spineless guidos" comes to mind), this only confirms the notion that no matter how officially American they are, they'll also be Italian/Irish/Mexican/whatever.

It goes back to the very idea of a nation. At its root, you're cheering for a particular country because its yours and its players share a common language/culture/heritage with you. That doesn't hold anywhere near as strong for America, particularly the non-WASP segment, so it's not surprising that people will turn to their roots for solidarity.

[SoCal Hoya85]

washingtonhoya said:

Zidane's headbutt was a shameful act no matter the context of what was said to him, but I can't say he's a punk for headbutting Materazzi in the chest. SoCalHoya85, watch some of Materazzi's career "highlights" of him going cleats up into someone's knee and tell me Zidane's the punk. Materazzi's a thug who finally had someone refuse to take his b.s. and stand up to him. Materazzi's a symbol of everything wrong with Italian soccer: A dirty player who is hailed as a hero at Inter by the same violent cavemen you'll see in Milan, but also at Lazio, Roma, Juve, etc. This damages Zizou's legacy surely, but it's not as if he were hailed as an angel before this incident, esp. given his previous red card for a headbutt against SV Hamburger when he was with Juve in the 01 CL. Still one of the top 10 players to ever play the sport, and when he refuses to take crap from an Italian thug like so many referees, other players, and corrupt Italian soccer authorities willingly do, he earns a modicum more respect from me. I know it seems like I'm defending a pretty classless act, but he couldn't have headbutted a better guy.

Which of course still doesn't make it right.

[washingtonhoya]

True. It was classless and unnecessary regardless of what the provocation may have been. It's just a shame that Materazzi might come off as the victim in this incident when he has done worse in the past. It's unfortunate that Italy has players like Materazzi who counteract the classy players on the team; personally I have a good deal of respect for Gattuso and Cannavaro, to name two.

[SFHoya99]

Interesting perspectives, afirth and Russky. In retrospect, I think I probably take international sporting events too seriously . And maybe I simply don't understand it because I am so much of a mutt, personally.

[FLHoya]

thebin said:

I agree the Boston shot was sorta random, but they really just trying to pull out all the stops to push soccer in America, so don't see why it would Edited you off if you are a fan of the Cup. I am guessing that was the biggest public viewing in the US. Lame? Yeah, I guess. But the motivation isn't that we need Northeastern approval, its to try and make it look like a real deal even in the States. Is it a trick for the weak-minded? Sure, but not sure why it invokes wrath.

I don't really think it has anything to do with trying to "promote" soccer in the USA.

Basically, everyone who's televising the World Cup is working off the same "world feed"--there's a common pool of cameras in every stadium transmitting the action/replays around to every network. If you toggle between ESPN/ABC and Univision for example, you'll notice they use the same replays/angles in the same order. Same deal for Champions League matches. You'll note a lot of times that the commentators aren't very smooth going to a replay, b/c they don't have the ESPN guy whispering in their ear what's coming up. The most common flub in this area seems to be when the World Feed will show a 20-minute old replay of a goal from another angle and DoB and Balboa will be kinda dumbstruck for a second.

The whole point of this is...ABC/ESPN don't really have to do much with their manpower. So they can set up cameras somewhere to do little "cut in" shots of fans watching around the world. They try to make it appropriate to the countries playing. There were shots of people on a beach in Australia, the Circo Massimo in Rome (although that was done through another network's feed), the Champs Elysees, that pub in Wimbeldon, that random French place in TORONTO (what?) this afternoon.

Sometimes they do it in the US just to give the flavor of people watching it on the homefront here--after all...nation of immigrants...the best example of this is for the South Korea games they do the cut away to a packed red-clad, thunderstick clanging house at the Staples Center in LA. ABC prob. wanted to show some USA viewing action and given that there's not really "French" communities in many major US cities, they went with Italians. And Boston's not a bad place. Heck, they SHOULD have just stuck the camera near Wisconsin and M Street. Sooooooo many Vespas on the way home tonight....

Don't think it's "promotion" on ABC's part, just a little extra for the broadcast that was convenient b/c there was a well-represented ethnic group in the US at play.

This being said, the lack of USA fans during those cutaways to Times Square was just sad.

[FLHoya]

For me, it's a pretty appropriate legacy that this World Cup concluded with a game that was decided on PK's, and included an atrociously botched PK call (karma anyone?) as well as a red card for a hideous attack that was probably motivated by equally hideous insults thrown at Zidane.

Italy seems like the perfect champion for this WC for me too. The one team in the world I respect for their ability to dominate/control games in their style but I find impossible to like on about 1 billion different levels. There's not a single Italian player I can say I like...the "exception" being Buffon, who's my absolute #1 "player I hate with a passion but respect the hell out of cause he's incredible at what he does." Except...today...at guessing correctly on PK's (0 for 5) ;D .

Playing the Eric Wynalda role here (let's analyze this puppy before "Stand Up for the Champions" is even done playing!), I think ultimately this WC's legacy is going to be the record setting number of cards given out, questionable officiating, diving, very low scoring games (I'm sure it's still second-lowest goals per game to Italia 90), and the small saving grace that pretty much every big name soccer power stuck around until the Quarters and there were a few scintillating finishes (for various reasons) in the knockout phases. Of course, Korea/Japan was allegedly great because of all the upsets, so figure that out.

It's like the 2000 Final Four.* The right team definitely won, they deserve a ton of credit, but they often resorted to a boring style, the whole thing seemed at times like a train wreck, and it left a nappy taste in your mouth at the end.

Fortunately, FIFA's throwing us another Wild Card with 2010 in South Africa.

(*This is appropriate b/c in my predictions for this World Cup, I analogized Italy to Michigan State. I also picked them to finish third in their group.)

[AustinHoya03]

socalhoya85 said:

What Zidane did was classless and inexcusable. I don't know how anyone can justify sucker headbutting someone on the pitch. I don't care what the Italian said to him, violence was not the appropriate response. Its sad to see that lack of sportsmanship actually celebrated, it wasn't cool, manly, or showed heart- it was selfish and stupid. I would disown him as a fan. What a punk.

When your a legend you don't stick up for yourself by headbutting a trash talker, you talk right back as you score the winning goal MJ style. I for one don't want to see that kind of 'heart' in soccer, I want less diving.

It's not right to hit someone with a pitch in baseball either. But at a point in the not-so-distant past, when A-Rod said "come on" to Varitek, and Varitek shoved him, was the shove inexcusable? Soccer does not have to be all hugs and kisses, and frankly I like it better when it isn't.

Can any of us even imagine the emotion involved in a championship game? Are we really in a position to paint Zidane's actions as black-and-white Wrong? To call the head-butt "vicious" or "inexcusable" is a bit like calling Fred Brown's pass "idiotic."

[SEAHoya]

Re: calling Zidane's action inexcusable...


It's funny, because after the shock subsided this is what crossed my mind as well. On the one hand, personally I've never even been involved in any sort of championship game, but I have done hot-headed things that I regret. So in a way I can understand how an individual can do something out of character in the heat of the moment. However, on the other, when you are the veteran captain of your team in the most important sporting event in the world, with the score tied you simply have to know better! This is not making an instantaneous decision to pass in a bball game, this was a reaction to a provocation, he made the conscious decision to turn around and take a few steps to do it. All in all, I found it really disappointing, because he was by far the most cultured and exciting player on the pitch.