CO_Hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,109
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Post by CO_Hoya on Nov 28, 2005 17:24:15 GMT -5
Then there's the other side:
As a Seahawks fan, I was disgusted as Holmgren and Co. were blowing the game. The wife kept asking me to help out with some yard work, so, after Burress caught that pass in OT to set up the 2nd FG attempt, I shut off the game, figuring it was all over.
Didn't know the SeaChickens had won until I read FB's rant last night.
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FormerHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,262
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Post by FormerHoya on Nov 28, 2005 18:31:59 GMT -5
The 2003 ALCS, Game 7. If any of you think there's a worse loss out there, well, try to argue it. I drank myself into a stupor and dumped my girlfriend all because of that game. 2003 NLCS Game 6. Threw my money for the tab on the table and walked out of the bar very quickly. I didn't want my friends to see me cry. |
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Post by RockawayHoya on Nov 28, 2005 22:50:20 GMT -5
If you're going to argue that Eli has a fantastic team around him, you also have to take into account Brees has the luxury of the best RB and best TE in the game on his offense as well. Not to mention one of the greatest blocking fullbacks of all time in Lorenzo Neal.
The 9 home games argument doesn't hold any water because the Giants would have crushed the Saints regardless of where the game was played.
I believe Eli's QB rating in the 4th quarter/OT this year is 117.0, if the statistic I saw during the game was correct. Simply put, the guy gets it done when it matters most and the game is on the line (see Broncos win, tying drive vs. Dallas, tying drive vs. Minnesota, nail in the coffin to Burress vs. Philadelphia, tying drive vs. Seattle). If we had any semblance of a secondary, this team would be 9-1 right now (with the loss to your Chargers being the only legit loss). But in that game, Brees wasn't the difference. Tomlinson was.
Aside from the Minnesota game (a complete abberation both on special teams and QB play), you can make the argument that Eli hasn't cost the Giants a single game this year with poor performance. That's FAR better than just being okay.
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Gold Hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,578
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Post by Gold Hoya on Nov 28, 2005 23:02:29 GMT -5
The 2003 ALCS, Game 7. If any of you think there's a worse loss out there, well, try to argue it. 2003 NLCS, Games 6 and 7. Although none of those baseball games took place on a weekend. To get a weekend we'd have to move back to 1984 NLCS, Game 5. |
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SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 747
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Post by SirSaxa on Nov 28, 2005 23:34:49 GMT -5
Eli is still learning, but his remarkable success in the 4th quarter is an indicator of what is to come. THis kid has a great future in front of him and he is a good guy as well. Ernie Accorsi went out on a limb, and it is going to pay off.
Now the JETS are the NYC team that needs a QB.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,744
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 28, 2005 23:58:49 GMT -5
If you're going to argue that Eli has a fantastic team around him, you also have to take into account Brees has the luxury of the best RB and best TE in the game on his offense as well. Not to mention one of the greatest blocking fullbacks of all time in Lorenzo Neal. The 9 home games argument doesn't hold any water because the Giants would have crushed the Saints regardless of where the game was played. I believe Eli's QB rating in the 4th quarter/OT this year is 117.0, if the statistic I saw during the game was correct. Simply put, the guy gets it done when it matters most and the game is on the line (see Broncos win, tying drive vs. Dallas, tying drive vs. Minnesota, nail in the coffin to Burress vs. Philadelphia, tying drive vs. Seattle). If we had any semblance of a secondary, this team would be 9-1 right now (with the loss to your Chargers being the only legit loss). But in that game, Brees wasn't the difference. Tomlinson was. Aside from the Minnesota game (a complete abberation both on special teams and QB play), you can make the argument that Eli hasn't cost the Giants a single game this year with poor performance. That's FAR better than just being okay. Brees has tons of help. I'm not arguing Drew is great, but he is a good fit for our team and a very good QB -- better than Eli right now and certainly last year. Eli has a ton of talent around him -- a defense that erases his mistakes, better wide receivers as Brees, and a TE/RB that is not as good, but almost there. There's no ifs or asides in football. Eli has lost some games, and will continue to do so. He's learning, but the media hype acts as if he's the reason the Giants are winning. He isn't, and is probably the weakest link on O and the second on the team. As for the fourth quarter thing, that's simply a joke. Instead of lauding the guy, you should ask what he's doing the rest of the game to keep you behind. or maybe, just maybe, he isn't this fourth quarter stud, but rather his stats are a combination of some luck/small sample variation and prevent defenses. |
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Post by RockawayHoya on Nov 29, 2005 0:28:36 GMT -5
I wouldn't say the Giants defense erases Eli's mistakes. Our run defense is exceptional, Alexander held to 40 yards after 3 quarters before they got tired. But our pass defense is awful (one of the worst in the league); Curtis Deloatch and Brent Alexander are two guys who should not be on an NFL roster, much less starting. That is the reason the Giants are always behind, not because Eli has played poorly at the beginning of games.
If you're proud that Brees was better than Eli last year, then I feel sorry for you, considering Eli started half the year and was a rookie who had absolutely no weapons (hurt Toomer, hurt Shockey, no Burress). Brees shot his load last year and probably will never be able to duplicate another year like that. While he is an accurate passer, he's more of the "won't kill you, but can manage a game" mold. Eli has the ability to be a difference maker, and that's the difference between playoff teams and championship teams. Same goes for any other sport at any other level.
And as for sample variations and whatnot, we could get into another trivial debate about playing 8 games a year in the swirling winds of the Meadowlands versus playing 8 games in picture perfect 80 degree and sunny weather at Qualcomm and see if that affects completion percentage at all. Or we could discuss how the Giants throw the ball downfield far more often than the Chargers, which also has a huge impact on completion percentage. Because really, that's all Brees has on Eli right now in terms of statistics. So to dismiss his ability to raise his performance when the game is clearly on the line simply because of luck or how teams play against him is ludicrous.
Is Eli infallible? Hardly. Is he going to lose games for us in the future? I'm positive he will. But he isn't a weak link by any stretch of the imagination. That honor belongs to Mr. False Start, Luke Petitgout.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,744
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 29, 2005 0:47:11 GMT -5
I'm not proud of anything -- this is a football team, not something I've accomplished. Perhaps you're unclear on the concept. I'm just explaining why Drew is a much better fit for the Chargers than Eli. The Chargers made the playoffs for the first time in years last year; they never would have with Eli.
As for your other comments, I really have to wonder how much football you actually watch. We've seen a ton of game managers go to and win Super Bowls -- so yes, I'm fine with game managers. Are you really telling me with a straight face that players like Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Rich Gannon, etc., are better than Drew Brees? How about Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypien? Heck, Elway was a game manager once he made it.
As for "shooting his load," we'll see. He definitely had abnormally low INTs last year, but the guy is only two odd years younger than Eli. It isn't like he's fully mature, either. His arm strength actually improved from last year, and I think Brees has the drive to keep improving.
The weather conditions probably affect four games max -- not all eight, unless you think the meadowlands is hell in September. Add in the abnormally hard schedule this year, and I'll continue to give the edge to Drew.
Brees has a higher yards per attempt, so his "shorter passes" seem to be more effective than all those long Eli passes. Brees has more overall yards this year and a better team. So completion percentage isn't the only stat he's better at.
As for the clutch crap, I'll ask again -- why doesn't Eli try the whole game? Wouldn't be better if he just stepped it up the whole time? Is he sandbagging? Does he pop some greenies before the fourth quarter?
Eli has a stronger arm. And he's got the media behind him. Yet the Chargers ended up with a QB who has performed better in two of the years of Tomlinson's and Gates' prime, Shawne Merriman, and above-average K, and a starting LT that was key in getting us to the playoffs last year. It was a phenomenal trade for the Chargers.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Nov 29, 2005 1:34:18 GMT -5
That's fine, and maybe Brees is a better fit in SD than Eli. But the converse is true; Eli's probably a better fit in NY, and it's doubtful Brees would do as well here.
I've watched a ton of football over my lifetime, and I understand that game managers can win Super Bowls. I never said you couldn't win a Super Bowl with Brees. I just said you couldn't make a claim that Eli was inferior. And if I had to pick, I'd take Johnson and Gannon over Brees in a heartbeat. Dilfer was garbage, we can all agree on that. Hoss was a lifetime backup and you can't compare him to what you consider to be a starter in Brees. Rypien's career was derailed by injuries, he was already a two time Pro-Bowl QB by his 4th year, so it's impossible to say what he could have achieved had he stayed healthy. And to pin the early Super Bowl losses on Elway is wrong; he just simply ran into 2 of the greatest Super Bowl teams ever in the '86 Giants and '90 49ers, and that one quarter against the Skins in '87, that was a complete shot in the dark (and a defensive collapse that had nothing to do with him).
As for the abnormally hard schedule, that's because you made the playoffs last year. Generally, that's how scheduling works. Finish high, play the previous year's contenders. Finish low, play the previous year's bad teams. There's nothing abnormal about that at all. Really, the Colts are the ones who have the abnormal schedule, being playoff-bound last year and having a ridiculously easy schedule.
Brees has less attempts than Eli, and the argument wasn't based on which style of offense was more effective. Because the Giants offense is geared towards longer pass plays, the completion percentage is obviously going to be lower. Yards per completion would probably be a better indicator. And I'm also not sure where you're finding your stats; Eli has more passing yards and rushing yards than Brees.
I'll agree with the 4 games argument pertaining the Meadowlands. But, that's still 1/4th the season. Still pretty significant.
It's not like Eli doesn't try in the 1st 3 quarters. Just goes back to my previous arguments. Our secondary blows; we fall behind, and as a result, we have to pass more in the 4th rather than relying on our normal balanced offense. If we've got Brees under center, there's no way we win the Denver game or Philly game. Being clutch in crunch time DOES count.
I also don't recall saying the Chargers got shafted in the trade. The fact you've mentioned it twice now leads me to believe the animosity you have towards Eli is because he chose to not come to SD.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,744
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 29, 2005 2:12:09 GMT -5
Most of your post is pointless, so I'm going to ignore it (for example, yes, I know why our schedule is hard; the point is it is much harder than the Giants').
As for assigning motivation to me, that pretty much ends the conversation. It is exceedingly arrogant for you to assume anything about my motivations. For the record, I've hated the Mannings ever since Peyton was in college. I have a friend that was at UT with him, and the second hand stories do not paint a flattering picture. Add in the fact that I despise media hype (I hated Kobe long before the rape charges, for example, even though I used to nominally be a Laker fan), and the Mannings just aren't my kind of family.
Eli is the 17th highest rated passer in the NFL. He gets the second or third most amount of media coverage, once you factor out the TO effect on McNabb.
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ptldhoya
Member
Northwest Hoya
Posts: 60
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Post by ptldhoya on Nov 29, 2005 2:45:35 GMT -5
This weekend sucked.
First, the Hoyas lost.
Then, the punk ND football team won, and will take a BCS bowl spot from my football team (Oregon) for no reason other than they are arrogant Notre Dame.
Then, the Raiders lost to eliminate me from my NFL suicide pole and screwed me out of $3000 with only 3 teams surviving.
AGgh!
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kghoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,994
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Post by kghoya on Nov 29, 2005 14:18:27 GMT -5
Then, the punk ND football team won, and will take a BCS bowl spot from my football team (Oregon) for no reason other than they are arrogant Notre Dame. maybe oregon shouldnt have played montana...try and keep it in d1 next year fellas...have fun in the holiday bowl! |
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FormerHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,262
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Post by FormerHoya on Nov 29, 2005 17:34:51 GMT -5
Excuse me, Oregon? The World League called, they want their Uniforms back.
he he
;D
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