T.O.: Turned Off

[Joe Hoya]

Okay, that was bad.

But THIS is good:

"Eagles Boot Owens For Season"

sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2216703

Discuss.

[hoyahoyasaxa]

Great move. TO did this in San Francisco and again in Philadelphia. He's a great talent, but is too much of a distraction. It's one thing to have outside distractions, but when they come into the locker room, they can destroy a team. The question is who will take a gamble on him next? Someone will, but he'll do the same thing again. He'll play great for a year, and then become a distraction. When things are going great, TO is a great player to have on your team. When things start to sour, he's one of the worst to have on your team.

[Joe Hoya]

There's a certain owner of a certain team that "plays" in a certain federal district that likes to spend money on superstars...but if Daniel Snyder tried to sign Terrell Owens I think Joe Gibbs would quit.

Atlanta is an obvious choice, but the second Michael Vick takes off running on 3rd and long...

[SFOHoya]

Da Raida's ?

Moss and TO... wow, on so many levels!

Maybe they dredge Ryan Leaf from whatever hole he's fallen into.

[Joe Hoya]

sfohoya said:

Da Raida's ?

Moss and TO... wow, on so many levels!

Maybe they dredge Ryan Leaf from whatever hole he's fallen into.

I would imagine that it will be hard for Owens to get a long-term deal anywhere. Therefore, there can't be any salary cap machinations to move money around from year to year...and I don't think they can afford both Moss and Owens AND 9 other offensive players.

Not to mention that Oakland isn't big enough for both of their egos. But I'll take Jerry Porter from them, sure.

[FLHoya]

joehoya said:

There's a certain owner of a certain team that "plays" in a certain federal district that likes to spend money on superstars...but if Daniel Snyder tried to sign Terrell Owens I think Joe Gibbs would quit.

Atlanta is an obvious choice, but the second Michael Vick takes off running on 3rd and long...

Atlanta doesn't have the cap room, and if memory serves during his FA year they pretty much went on record saying they didn't want him.

[RDF]

joehoya said:

There's a certain owner of a certain team that "plays" in a certain federal district that likes to spend money on superstars...but if Daniel Snyder tried to sign Terrell Owens I think Joe Gibbs would quit.

Atlanta is an obvious choice, but the second Michael Vick takes off running on 3rd and long...

Atlanta's not going to want him--they've got Gregg Knapp the OC he hated in San Francisco and Mora JR was there too--besides that you have a crappy passing QB who is lost when it comes to throw timing routes and finding open receivers---he gets into trouble and looks for Alge Crumpler or runs and thinks that will win--it won't win a Championship and to be honest I'd rather have Matt Schaub as my QB, but that's my dislike of all run-oriented QB's.

TO will have a home come next season and he'll be a dominant player--which is something Donovan McNabb isn't--he's a good player that has been overhyped as Rush Limbaugh said--but many look at the person who said it and not what he said. In his brief time at ESPN Limbaugh said:

1. Green Bay needed to get away from Brett Favre as focal point and make running game more important around Ahman Green.

2. New England would be fine, win the Super Bowl and Belichick is one of the best Coaches in Football and this was after Lawyer Milloy got cut and they were blown out in Buffalo and in response to Tom Jackson's misguided bashing of Belichick and "He's lost the team" comments.

3. McNabb isn't why Philly wins, it's their DEFENSE (which was 100% on the money) and he's overrated which he is.

Now I'm NOT a fan of Limbaugh's or his politics, but I do agree with everything he said and it was funny to watch how those gutless bafoons at ESPN didn't have the balls to stand up to him (if they were truly offended) and then chose weekend he was no longer there to bash him--Tom Jackson is a moronic bafoon and nothing like when he later tried to suck up to Belichick after Pats won Super Bowl and Bill told him to "F*** Off" and didn't accept his handshake/congrats, I laughed my butt off at that.

Anyway, I think McNabb is as much of a problem in Philly as TO. He's always banged up, hurt, sick when he is terrible and the excuses flow. My favorite aspect of the timing of this decision is that:

1. McNabb sucked last night at the key moments--that ill fated, ignorant play before end of 1st Half and then the crappy play in last drive and INT.

2. Reid and his Staff NOT having Brian Westbrook in game on last 2 plays of the game for Eagles. WHY?

Funny how they decide to use the TO announcement as a way of deflecting the obvious criticism they should've received. But you can't attack the "Faces" of NFL and when guys like McNabb or Manning's screw up, the media ignores it and focuses elsewhere. It's pathetic and lame, but useful for them as these guys are plastered all over the television/ads on Sundays and throughout the season/year in commercials.

[Joe Hoya]

Leave it to RDF to turn a thread about the most distasteful athlete in sports into a rant praising some of Rush Limbaugh's remarks and trashing Donovan McNabb.

If McNabb is healthy, he runs on 2nd & 4 and gets the first down. Then comes the touchdown and overtime. He's hurt, he isn't going to run as often (especially with the game on the line), and in one instance last night it cost the team the game.

I'm just upset that they had almost two minutes, two timeouts, three downs and four yards to go, and didn't even think once of giving the ball to Westbrook or even Lamar Gordon.

That said...11-5. Division champions. NFC Championship Game victory over Atlanta in Philadelphia (again). It can (and hopefully will) still happen.

[RDF]

Well if FACTS bother you Joe, don't read. Seriously, everything stated on Limbaugh's remarks were a fact and McNabb's sensitivity showed there just as it did with Owens. Why do Owens and McNabb have to like each other as long as they produce? McNabb is a very marginal QB--the Eagles were dominant due to defense, not him and that's a fact. If he could've produced more points, they'd have been in at least 3 Super Bowls and remember how many of those NFC Title Games were losses in Philly? Great QB's don't let that happen, but it's impossible to talk with Philly people who see that clown as a "superstar". He's about as injured as I am and only thing he's got hurt is his feelings.

11-5? Do you watch these guys play or do we need to change the meaning of FANTASY Football? What do the Eagles show that makes you think they go 7-1 in 2nd Half of the season? Their defense looks like crap, their offense is Westbrook and LJ Smith who for 3 years now has been hyped as the "future" and I'm still waiting to see the dominance--hell he's 4th best TE in Division, and McNabb supposedly can't run--I highly question the severity of his injury to put it mildly. Most people can't walk with Sports Hernia without pain, and wouldn't a QB at least flinch when throwing ball on run and straining? Oh yeah, he's supposedly got bruised ribs too, right?

How did this effect his poor decision making and Reid not having his best offensive player in the game on 3rd and 4th down? And if you are capable of scrambling around like he did in 1st Half, why not do it when game is on line? I thought Philly fans/people were about NOT making EXCUSES?

Limbaugh's a blowhard but what he stated above is FACT and he was on the money. To me you weigh what he said and look over time. So far he's been proven absolutely right and while I take acception to him limiting the hype to "NFL wants to see Black QBs succeed" as I think they are such clowns they want whomever they HYPE to succeed, he provided more analysis that was correct than Tom Jackson but that's not too popular to say in the PC era we live in.

Facts are facts whether people like it or not and I have nothing invested in this other than to laugh at how Philly chose the timing of discussing Terrell Owen's future (was it not supposed to be decided after a meeting with Reid/Owens later this week?) after the QB and Coach cost them game last night.

[Joe Hoya]

Haven't you accused McNabb of faking or exaggerating injuries in the past? Does this have anything to do with the fact that he went to Syracuse?

I was just wondering how a discussion of Terrell Owens went in the direction of Rush Limbaugh...again, it must be because of some anti-McNabb agenda. Why aren't you pointing out that Michael Vick is overrated? He hasn't won a damn thing, he isn't even a good quarterback, and yet I don't hear you assailing him. What about Peyton Manning? He doesn't get hurt, he puts up great numbers...but he hasn't won anything of any import yet. Would you care to rip him please, for my edification? Just to prove you don't hate McNabb.

As for the meeting between Reid and Owens...Andy talked to T.O. this morning before the press conference. Whether he was just informing Owens of the decision or actually discussing it, I don't know.

As for the rest of the season...well, I've seen every game and I'll guess you've only seen the nationally televised ones, if you've even watched them all (yeah, I'm getting on a soapbox...sue me). With Owens gone, the gameplan will change. But Reggie Brown showed last night that he can catch the football and run with it. Greg Lewis is a solid receiver. Brian Westbrook, when used properly, is as dangerous as anyone in the league. L.J. Smith has been sporadic, and now he has a concussion. If he comes back, he can have 3 catches for 22 yards, or he can go off and have 9 for 143 and 2 TDs. Billy McMullen played well last night too. Last night's game showed that the defense could be turning around in the right direction, and if that's the case...this team will be fine.

The most important thing is the schedule.

After the thrashing they received in Dallas, there is no way the Eagles lose...at home...in prime time...to the Cowboys. I can see them losing to the Giants in New York. Then comes Green Bay. 6-5. Seattle can't win on the road, especially on the East Coast (look at the past few years). Add in the fact that, again, they are at home on a Monday night, where they have a very high level of success, and they go to 7-5. Eli Manning struggles on the road (one career win, in San Fran), and I think, with the season on the line, they will beat one of the leagues worst defenses at home. 8-5. Then they travel to St. Louis, and I'll be honest, I have no idea what will happen. If Jamie Martin is still playing QB for the Rams, the Eagles will win. If Bulger is back...they can still win. If they do, that's 9-5. They end the season in Arizona (10-5) and then at home against the Redskins. They will not lose that game. That's 11-5.

I think the Giants are in trouble over the last six games , when they play four of six on the road. They also host Kansas City in that time, and they could very easily lose that game. I think the Giants could go 12-4, or end up as bad as 8-8. If they end up at 10-6...that's second place.

I know you'll disagree with everything I've said, but I don't really care. Over the rest of the season, the Eagles could go 8-0, or they could go 2-6. We don't know.

And that's why we watch.

[RDF]

Michael Vick is overrated too--and while Peyton Manning is among top QB's in league, he is the "ARod" of NFL for me--I just don't like the guy and kind of enjoy his misery to be honest.

McNabb is jaking it--as he's done in past whenver he sucks--which is often on biggest stage and why he's not a great QB--he's good and in today's NFL that can win, but he's played like a mutt more than a superstar which he's hyped to be by media.

Unless Eagles can run the ball more effectively and their defense plays like it should, this team is going to be in trouble. I love Jim Johnson as a Coach but he's not had a good performance in opening half of season and part of that is due to Reid not running the ball but other part is due to Kearse going MIA, and Trotter being exploited in pass defense. Also, Lito Sheppard is playing like he did at Florida which was crappy in 75% of the games and guy's not that good and will continue to get exploited by good teams.

The way Eagles are playing I could see 9-7, but to me their entire season is on line Monday Night. This entire "I dont' see them losing game" is why you are a fan and why fan is short for fanatic. That's what Patriot fans were saying about game last night--and we all saw that no matter what the team HAS done, there isn't any magic formula to winning--it's who plays better football and it's going to take better football then what I've seen of Philly.

As for your comments on me abusing McNabb--it's because I'm neutral and go by performance, not excuses. I call out guys on teams I like--see ARod, AI when he's out of line, etc.. so it's not as if I'm some homer with an agenda. Watch McNabb play and if he is stinking up the joint, you'll hear all of his ailments and pain, but then watch him fire a missle 65 yards downfield with an injury that has Matt Birk of Minnesota out for the 2nd year in a row and in so much pain he couldn't walk normally--yet McNabb can throw the ball and doesn't wear any padding to protect the area? Sorry for being a skeptic here but I doubt this as Theisman did last night.

For your sake, I hope your team does well and as I said I like Jim Johnson a great deal as a coach, so he could turn it around, but I'm not sure it's going to happen this year.

[Joe Hoya]

As if I needed another reason to hate Syracuse...

www.nbc10.com/eaglesblog/index.html

Apparently, this was started by a STUDENT AT SYRACUSE.

Ugh. Stupid Orange. Gimme back my Super Bowl, you bums!!
::end of rant::

[RDF]

Joe, did you hear about Owens "begging" to return to Eagles today? He and Rosenhaus did a Press Conference and apologized to McNabb, Reid, and Philly Organization and it was truly lame--he's screwed, he knows it, and it'll be interesting to see what Eagles do from here. If he returns, it'll be most comical thing I've seen, but then again, nothing surprises me in today's era of Sports "entertainment". ;D

[Deleted]

T.O. apologizes and asks to come back, but the Eagles say no.

sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2217740

[Joe Hoya]

I saw the press conference.

I'm fairly intelligent, and I know why this was done, and obviously I see through the words to the real motive, the games checks.

But Drew Rosenhaus is an absolute genius. The way he acted out there, he actually managed to make Terrell Owens NOT look like the biggest d-bag on the lawn. Seriously, Owens apaologized, whether genuine or not (and I think maybe it partly was...he knows he has put himself in a corner, and maybe it's actually hit him how bad he has made it for himself and everyone else), and then Rosenhaus kinda went off on everyone. He made Owens look genuinely apologetic, almost to the point where if he fired Rosenhaus I would consider taking him back.

(Wakes up from fantasy world)

Naaaaah.

[RockawayHoya]

I think Rosenhaus served exactly the opposite purpose. TO went out and said his thing, and then Rosenhaus turned around and basically said to the press, "It's not his fault, he didn't deserve the punishment, he should be playing, etc." If he had left it at his own personal statement, I think it would have come off apologetic and contrite. But after Rosenhaus's tirade, it almost seems like the Owens camp still feels THEY were the ones wronged. Which is simply not the case. And are we really supposed to believe Rosenhaus had no part in the content of Owens' statement? We're not that naive.

[Joe Hoya]

Like I said in my last post, I'm smart enough to see through the words. Do you think Owens would be apologizing if it wasn't costing him over $2.5 million (4 games checks at $213K and $1.8M in bonus money that the Eagles are trying to recoup)? There's no need to say anything...his season is over, that's that. Yet the fact that they even held a press conference, instead of just releasing a statement, or saying nothing at all, shows that they were just out for attention...again.

I was just comparing the way Owens acted, almost genuinely sorry it seemed, and the way Rosenhaus acted, like a raving lunatic. He made T.O. look good in comparison. And that is his job as an agent. Unfortunately for them, it's way too little, way too late.

[RDF]

joehoya said:

Haven't you accused McNabb of faking or exaggerating injuries in the past?

Joe, hate to do this to you, but I think McNabb made my case for me in front of the entire nation again tonight. How does the guy play so carefee and without wincing at all, and then after THE PLAY that loses the game, the guy is "Dead".

McNabb does this EVERY game I watch. I had no rooting interest at all--Philly played a great game for 57 minutes and lost just as Dallas did against Skins this year and Seattle this year, but difference is that nobody had the "built in" excuse in case of failure--that is what losers and insecure people do. McNabb can dance in the endzone, he can run/scramble and throw on move and some nice passes too, and then he makes a terrible read and screws up and amazingly comes up "lame". Madden got NFL PR immediately with "He's so hurt, can he play next week or at all?" after 20 minutes earlier proclaiming him to look "great--whatever he's got hurt, he's getting better".

Look, I think you are a great Eagle fan and this might sway your outlook but the FACTS are on the field of play and this is what I'm seeing and repeatedly--he did same thing against Dallas in earlier game this year and he sure jumped off that damn bench quickly when it appeared that Reggie Brown had caught that pass didn't he? Hmmmmmm???

To make you feel better, Michael Vick SUCKED and often SUCKS when he's forced to throw a pass to anyone not named Crumpler, but he's not to the level where they make excuses yet. In basketball terms, I compare McNabb to Vince Carter--media darling, hyped beyond belief, and always has the injury alibi built in should he not perform. Eli Manning also blows--look at the numbers/play--he's a shaky QB even when they win, but media hypes him. It's not Black/White thing, it's a HYPE/NFL "Pet" thing.

Good luck to Eagles rest of year and hopefully Joe, you can have some happy moments, but I just don't see anything happening with McNabb as the "man" there. He's gone as far as he can and Eagles need to revamp the defense--which is main reason they were so dominant in first place.

[Joe Hoya]

Next question.

[Joe Hoya]

I actually had something to say, but I thought quoting Drew Rosenhaus would be funny, and I need a laugh. I feel like someone kicked me in the nuts, took my dog, glued him to the ground, and ran him over. Twice. I have NEVER felt this way about a regular season sporting event - this has passed the Gerry McNamara game from 2004 by miles. This is right up there with postseason stomach punches such as the 1993 World Series (although I was still young and relatively optimistic about things afterward), Game 1 of the 1996 ALCS (Jeffrey Maier), the 2000 NHL Eastern Conference Finals, the 2003/4 NFC Championship Games, and of course Super Bowl XXXIX (just naming all of those, off the top of my head...I'm gonna be sick...)

McNabb did make a mistake, his only one of the game. Same as last week. But don't complain about his injury - as soon as he threw the pick, I though "Who is gonna tackle - oh no, don't do it, he's gonna get wrecked, Donovan don't...dammit!" And he did get wrecked. We'll have to see what the result is, but...I have to say that right now, I'm prepared for the start of the seven-game Mike McMahon Era.

Donovan is capable of great things when he's healthy. Unfortunately, he seems to be affected more by small, nagging things (such as groins and fingers and the like) than most. This is the guy who threw four TDs on a broken leg. I will never question his dedication to winning and his ability to play through pain. But that's why I'm a fan, I guess.