RDF
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Post by RDF on Nov 2, 2005 23:49:12 GMT -5
After watching the Sixers-Pistons game tonight, I am resigned to the fact that Allen Iverson will never sniff a Playoff Appearance again in that dump. Seriously, that team as constructed will not win 25 games and is an embarrassment to the sport. Let me count the ways they SUCK: 1. Mo Cheeks might be a "Philly Icon" and one heck of a nice man, but he's a bum as a Basketball Coach. The product he puts out there has no idea how to play as a team, doesn't play with any sort of identity, and is saddled by the load of dung better known as C-Webb. 2. Webber's play makes me wish I was blind for the time the game takes to be played--he's that heartless, gutless, awful. He's a load of dog crap that represents what is truly wrong with the sport--intelligent kids who care more about style points then being the best they could be as a player and he is poster boy for what drove many fans away from NBA more then the "target" of everyone--AI. Seriously, Webber wants acclaim/respect but what's he done other than run from responsibility and show up small on big stage? He might have worn long shorts and made the Fab 5 "cool" but I'll take Tyrone Hill and Nazr Mohammed over him. 3. What style are the Sixers going for? Run and Gun or Halfcourt? Swinging offense through Webber or letting Iverson create? It's something that I'd like to hear from Cheeks because he has no clue. 4. Billy King's "death" as a GM should be imminent. He really is the worst thing in Sports in a Front Office. 5. I've seen more emotion from a Tom Osborne/Tony Dungy speaking engagement then what Mo Cheeks shows on bench--he's a clueless bafoon and his team follows suit. 6. Only in Philly would Kevin Ollie, James Thomas, and John Salmons qualify as "help" for a Franchise. That is last game I'll watch of this MUT of a team this year and to be honest unless AI begs to get out of that dump, he'll be another great player wasted and for the love of BASKETBALL GOD, please give him the vision/intelligence to get the hell out of that rat hole. They are doomed as an Organization, they are doomed with Mo Cheeks who I'd like to see replaced by something with more life, like say a CORPSE, and just basically at a point where my favorite NBA player's career is destined to the worst fate of all--insignificance. Anything he does won't matter because he's wasting it. LEAVE PHILLY AI and ASAP!!! Watching this happen to him is hard as he's done all he can for that franchise and their owner only cares about Philadelphia Flyers, so why not at least reward AI with a trade to somewhere/anywhere else and let King and C-Webb show how they can "lead a team without AI hogging the ball/spotlight". That should net them about 12-15 wins and an empty arena, but the product I saw tonight wouldn't be much better and will play to half empty arena, so at least move AI for the good of his career and the game--he's a dynamic/fun player to watch and deserves to play for a team who has a shot to win enough to make Playoffs. Sad day for any Sixer/Iverson fans because this game showed what Mo Cheeks, Billy King, and Webber Era is all about and it leaves me to sickness.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Nov 3, 2005 1:32:43 GMT -5
Who's worse: veteran of the lottery process Elgin Baylor or Billy King? If both of them were running a team at the same time, would the team win a game?
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Nov 3, 2005 1:47:57 GMT -5
;D==your proposed Front Office is a hilarious concept for a new Reality TV show and I'd say that team could accomplish the 0-82 feat and funniest thing is NEITHER would get fired!
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Nov 3, 2005 8:53:44 GMT -5
Who's worse: veteran of the lottery process Elgin Baylor or Billy King? If both of them were running a team at the same time, would the team win a game? In all fairness to Elgin Baylor (a DC Native), he has his hands tied behind his back with his owner. The owner for the Clippers, Sterling, is a cheapskate. Only until recently, he started spending a little money, and that is why you see an upgrade in talent with the Clippers. I know the Sports Guy and others like to rag on Elgin, but there is a reason why he still has had a job for all these years, and not been fired. Sterling, for as bad as the Clippers have been over the years, makes a good profit from the Clippers every year, from his cheap methods. A lot of winning franchises, lose money. I'm not saying he is Joe Dumars or Ernie Grumfeld as a GM, but Elgin is no Billy King. Billy King? Has to be the worst GM. He makes Isiah Thomas look like Jerry West as a GM (pre-Memphis Jerry West, I might add, ;D ). At least Isiah brings in talent to his roster, although they lack intangibles and may not mesh together, they got guys on the roster who can actually run, jump, and score in a basketball game. You know, what NBA-caliber players should at least be able to do. Anytime John Salmons is the first guy off your bench,Kyle Korver is your starting small forward, your power forward who eats your salary cap plays like a heartless 2-guard, your center Dalembert can't score unless he dunks and can't hold onto a ball to save his life yet makes 10-mil a year for the next six years, your only bright spot of a young player SF Iggy is out of postion at 2-guard and still raw offensively,you have a coach in Mo Cheeks who couldn't coach a team WITH talent in Portland,you suck as GM.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Nov 3, 2005 9:05:28 GMT -5
After watching the Sixers-Pistons game tonight, I am resigned to the fact that Allen Iverson will never sniff a Playoff Appearance again in that dump. Seriously, that team as constructed will not win 25 games and is an embarrassment to the sport. Let me count the ways they SUCK: 1. Mo Cheeks might be a "Philly Icon" and one heck of a nice man, but he's a bum as a Basketball Coach. The product he puts out there has no idea how to play as a team, doesn't play with any sort of identity, and is saddled by the load of dung better known as C-Webb. 2. Webber's play makes me wish I was blind for the time the game takes to be played--he's that heartless, gutless, awful. He's a load of dog crap that represents what is truly wrong with the sport--intelligent kids who care more about style points then being the best they could be as a player and he is poster boy for what drove many fans away from NBA more then the "target" of everyone--AI. Seriously, Webber wants acclaim/respect but what's he done other than run from responsibility and show up small on big stage? He might have worn long shorts and made the Fab 5 "cool" but I'll take Tyrone Hill and Nazr Mohammed over him. 3. What style are the Sixers going for? Run and Gun or Halfcourt? Swinging offense through Webber or letting Iverson create? It's something that I'd like to hear from Cheeks because he has no clue. 4. Billy King's "death" as a GM should be imminent. He really is the worst thing in Sports in a Front Office. 5. I've seen more emotion from a Tom Osborne/Tony Dungy speaking engagement then what Mo Cheeks shows on bench--he's a clueless bafoon and his team follows suit. 6. Only in Philly would Kevin Ollie, James Thomas, and John Salmons qualify as "help" for a Franchise. That is last game I'll watch of this MUT of a team this year and to be honest unless AI begs to get out of that dump, he'll be another great player wasted and for the love of BASKETBALL GOD, please give him the vision/intelligence to get the hell out of that rat hole. They are doomed as an Organization, they are doomed with Mo Cheeks who I'd like to see replaced by something with more life, like say a CORPSE, and just basically at a point where my favorite NBA player's career is destined to the worst fate of all--insignificance. Anything he does won't matter because he's wasting it. LEAVE PHILLY AI and ASAP!!! Watching this happen to him is hard as he's done all he can for that franchise and their owner only cares about Philadelphia Flyers, so why not at least reward AI with a trade to somewhere/anywhere else and let King and C-Webb show how they can "lead a team without AI hogging the ball/spotlight". That should net them about 12-15 wins and an empty arena, but the product I saw tonight wouldn't be much better and will play to half empty arena, so at least move AI for the good of his career and the game--he's a dynamic/fun player to watch and deserves to play for a team who has a shot to win enough to make Playoffs. Sad day for any Sixer/Iverson fans because this game showed what Mo Cheeks, Billy King, and Webber Era is all about and it leaves me to sickness. I watched the game yesterday, and I'm not suprised the way they look as a team. Its a shame. Jim O'Brien got the best out of the team he had last year. You know what the major beef of why he got fired was? O'Brien felt this team needed a serious upgrade in talent for them to contend in the Eastern Conference and he told Billy King this to his face in a sit-down meeting. Billy King disagreed and took the side of the players. O'Brien didn't play the young players, cuz they stunk. Yet Billy King fires O'Brien and signs the young players to long-term contracts?The players didn't like O'brien because of his coaching methods. Yet O'Brien got the best out of that team last year by putting the ball in AI's hands, and the team at least squeezed into the playoffs with a talent deficient roster. Don't you know the sixers have the 3rd highest payroll in the NBA. They are still paying off 3 coaches that King fired the last 2 years. Its sad. But the owner for the Philly, likes Billy King. So he ain't going nowhere. Just like Abe Pollin liked Wes Unseld as GM for the Bullets/Wizards during those horrific years. I think AI will get traded this year. Did you see walk off the court last night with his towel over his head? He looked disgusted. And he should be. Oh yeah, Mo Cheeks is a class act. Great guy, but he is a horrible coach. He couldn't coach Portland, that had loads of talent. His game-strategy methods are horrendous. Losing a 7-pt lead in the last minutes of the 4th Quarter to Milwalkee? That is a sign of things to come. The Sixers are Charlotte Bobcat status right now. They may be the worst team in the league. I saw some of the Wizards-Raptors game last night. The Raptors are suppose to be one of the worst teams in the NBA, right? Shoot, the Raptors would run circles around the Sixers. The Sixers stink badly. And oh yeah, Webber? Man is this guy a media darling or what? You would think Webber was an all-world player the way the media thinks he can lift the Sixers to great promise. I saw Webber play in his prime, and he was competitively soft and lacked leadership then. So now things will be different now that he is old, decrepit, and has a 1-inch vertical leap? Get Real. The guy stinks. He and Jermaine O'Neal run neck-and-neck for the softest, overrated, and media loved power forwards in the last 15 years in this league.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Nov 3, 2005 12:03:17 GMT -5
Way, EVERYTHING you said was spot on and I applaud your commentary on the State of the Sixers. It's really sad and if AI has any pride left after this debacle of a team, he should swallow it and DEMAND to get the hell out of that place--they are awful. AI liked O'Brien and I believe Jim O'Brien got the best year out of Iverson that any coach has gotten--he was dominant and carried a mediocre team on his back to the Playoffs when truth be told, they were one of the least talented, awful teams last year as well.
As for the young players, O'Brien did what a good coach does, he utilized their talents and fit a style that could make them effective. By running/open court game he made Iguodala and Korver better players then they actually are and it catered to Dalembert's strength as well--his ability to run the floor.
Once Billy King picked up Webber, the Sixers went downhill and as you said it's dropped to level that they are the WORST team in NBA and it's not even close. I highly doubt that Philly could beat an NBDL team right now. When your answers in offseason are drafting a HS 2G in point guard's body, signing a player who couldn't even make an impact for his college team and GUARANTEEING him a spot on roster (Shavlik Randolph) and the addition of Lee Nailon who is a jump shooting soft, non rebounding/defending PF, you are doomed.
As you said Way, their Payroll is insanely high and it's got nowhere to go but down--Iverson better ask out of there or he's doomed for rest of his career.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Nov 3, 2005 13:38:40 GMT -5
I tend to agree with _way about as often as solar eclipses come around. Therefore, when such an unlikely event occurs, I need to make it known.
I agree with _way's opinion on Elgin Baylor. He has been forced to be the front man for years for all of Donald Sterling's nonsense. I don't know if Elgin would actually be a good gm if given a reasonable opportunity, but I do doubt that he's as bad or as clueless as others make him out to be.
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HoyaChris
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Post by HoyaChris on Nov 3, 2005 14:57:37 GMT -5
I, too, find myself in the extremely uncomfortable position of agreeing with every single word of the_way's post. Let the record reflect my humble concurrence.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2005 16:01:55 GMT -5
I agree with everything people are saying about AI getting out of Philly. But think about what you're saying...
1) Any trade involving AI should bring back a serious amount of talent to the Sixers. 2) All that talent SHOULD make the Sixers better. No one player can replace AI, but the aggregate the pool of players and draft picks brings SHOULD improve them in the long run. 3) Remember, Billy King is the Sixers GM. As such, he's proven incapable of coming up with any sort of plan to improve the Sixers. 4) Ergo, King will not trade Iverson... unless he's somehow offered a package deal including Brian Scalabrini, Keith Van Horn, Penny Hardaway and Vin Baker. THAT sounds like the kind of deal King would swing for... maybe throw in Arthur Agee and William Gates to boot.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Nov 3, 2005 16:45:12 GMT -5
I agree with everything people are saying about AI getting out of Philly. But think about what you're saying... 1) Any trade involving AI should bring back a serious amount of talent to the Sixers. 2) All that talent SHOULD make the Sixers better. No one player can replace AI, but the aggregate the pool of players and draft picks brings SHOULD improve them in the long run. 3) Remember, Billy King is the Sixers GM. As such, he's proven incapable of coming up with any sort of plan to improve the Sixers. 4) Ergo, King will not trade Iverson... unless he's somehow offered a package deal including Brian Scalabrini, Keith Van Horn, Penny Hardaway and Vin Baker. THAT sounds like the kind of deal King would swing for... maybe throw in Arthur Agee and William Gates to boot. I loved O'Brien as the Celts coach...always got the most out of the talent. Hell, anybody who can turn McCarty into a household name deserves mad props. He got a raw deal in Boston.
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Nov 17, 2005 11:08:31 GMT -5
Philly hasn't lost since the last time someone posted on this thread, and now they're 6-3. I don't follow them closely, so I generally defer to other people's opinions. But Webber, Inglodola, and Dalembert is a not too terrible group to stick with AI. The key is Webber and AI figuring out how to make each other better and they seem to be doing that. And Iverson is, as usual, destroying people.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Nov 17, 2005 11:33:28 GMT -5
Philly hasn't lost since the last time someone posted on this thread, and now they're 6-3. I don't follow them closely, so I generally defer to other people's opinions. But Webber, Inglodola, and Dalembert is a not too terrible group to stick with AI. The key is Webber and AI figuring out how to make each other better and they seem to be doing that. And Iverson is, as usual, destroying people. I've been following. Dalembert hasn't played yet. They have had a favorable schedule lately. The played 2 games straight against Toronto, and they have had a long home stand. Its still early. The good teams rise to the top after the all-star break, and the bad ones fade. Iverson is still being Iverson. Webber, surprisingly is playing good, but still has problems in crunch time in the 4ths Quarter, when it matters most. I still think he will fade away, along with the Sixers.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 17, 2005 12:05:35 GMT -5
I do like Igoudala. Webber can be a very good player; he just isn't going to be "the guy." Not sure what Korver's real future is.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Nov 17, 2005 15:11:18 GMT -5
I do like Igoudala. Webber can be a very good player; he just isn't going to be "the guy." Not sure what Korver's real future is. Yeah, Iggy is a stud. He is just raw offensively. Once he becomes that consistent scorer, he is going to be a force. He did a great job guarding Kobe the other night.
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Dec 18, 2005 22:50:41 GMT -5
Watched a couple sixers game recently, and I noticed something interesting. Shavlick Randolph isn't bad. In fact, he's been pretty good. That "bang" you just heard was RDF's head.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Dec 19, 2005 14:12:09 GMT -5
Since this is the AI Doomed Again thread, I thought this should go here. A question and answer from the WP chat today on AI and the Hall of Fame:
Washington, D.C.: Can you answer this debate me and my friend have been having for a while. Is Allen Iveron going to the Hall of Fame?
Michael Wilbon: I think it's still too early to tell even though this is Iverson's 10th season...He's a great, great player but he hasn't won at either level, though he led a team to the Finals once. I realy and truly don't know and would have to ask some Hall of Famers what they think.
Nevada Hoya: I don't think Allen Iveron will be going to the HOF, but I believe Allen Iverson will be, for sure.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Dec 19, 2005 15:14:16 GMT -5
WTF? How is Iverson not a hall of famer? If Clyde Drexler, George Gervin, and Calvin Murphy (to name a few) are in there, why wouldn't Iverson? None of the above won a championship at any level (save for Clyde's hanging on Hakeem's coattails at the end). And I'm sure Iverson has better numbers.
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Dec 19, 2005 15:34:51 GMT -5
That's ridiculous. If AI retired today, he'd have a very good case. Given that he's playing as well as he ever has, he's a mortal lock. Basketballreference.com has a hall of fame index, with over 135 being a likely hall of famer. AI is at 229 TODAY. AI will be a hall of famer, and he will be an inner circle hall of famer, retiring as one of the greatest of all time. Throw in the fact that he's the most popular player in the league (or close to it) and it's a no-brainer. Wilbon doesn't know that of which he speaks.
If AI doesn't make it, Patrick Ewing shouldn't make it, because AI is better. A more interesting question is whether Dikembe should be a hall of famer. He's clearly one of the greatest defensive players ever, but his offensive production probably keeps him out.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Dec 19, 2005 16:08:18 GMT -5
Iverson has the 21st highest HOF index score of all time.
Some other HOF index numbers:
Jordan: 731 Ewing: 156 Zo: 114 Dikembe M.M.M.J.J.W. Mutumbo: 110
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Dec 19, 2005 20:32:25 GMT -5
Iverson is a lock. This isn't even debatable.
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