MLB Offseason Thread - Epstein?!

[Hank Scorpio]

just broke on espn...i'm floored.

[Jack]

You and me both. Lucchino will go down in infamy for this.

[TBird41]

I have to say I'm surprised as well. If you're the Red Sox, you should be practically worshipping this guy--he got you your WS win. But instead it seems like he had some differences w/ the organization--which shouldn't happen b/c he was the GM behind the WS title--you change to him, not the other way around.

Though I have to wonder who they go after now--Beane again? Depo? Someone new, like me? I can take over right now if they want.

[Bahstin]

Eff Larry Lucchino. When the invoice comes for me to renew my 10 game pack this winter, I am going to have to think long and hard about whether I want to give this ownership group more $$.

[SFHoya99]

Some thoughts on Larry from a San Diegan.

1) Don't underestimate the influence Larry has on baseball matters. If you think Theo was a mastermind who did it all on his own, you're crazy.

2) Larry is fantastic at marketing, PR, etc., but he does make baseball mistakes.

3) Larry has had many personality conflicts before. I think you're seeing some of that here.

Theo isn't God, but this isn't surpising.

[Jack]

I don't think Theo did it all on his own, I am pretty sure he had good help from people like Josh Byrnes and Bill James, and I am sure LL and ownership had plenty of input on attempts to dump Manny Ramirez and not to resign Pedro. I just don't give them any credit for the small moves Theo made.

I also recognize Theo had his shortcomings- he has not shown much skill with putting together a bullpen, he signed Renteria to a terrible deal, the Clement deal also looks suspect. I am sure another GM could do the job pretty well too, particularly if he gets the same kind of budget. I am more concerned that the reasons Theo quit are also reasons that the next guy might not be able to be as successful. The ownership group now has to prove it is at least as interested in winning as it is in the bottom line, that one championship is not enough. This whole thing stinks in that respect.

Over the years, I have come to realize that I root for the laundry and the players change, but I saw Theo as a local guy, roughly my age, who had found his (and my) dream job and kicked butt doing it. I thought we were going to grow old together with the team, and that the players would still come and go, but Theo was there to stay. This is yet another stomach punch when it comes to the realities of being a fan.

In the short term, it is also very damaging to have no GM and to have lost the guy who was second in command of baseball ops too, with much of the baseball staff likely to follow Byrnes (or Theo) out the door. With the farm system looking better than it has in years, it is a particularly dangerous time to be losing that kind of institutional knowledge just as free agency and roster decisions need to be made.

[Joe Hoya]

Wow, with TBird running the Red Sox and me running the Phillies (expect an announcement soon), maybe we can do some trade talking in the forum here.

[TC]

sfhoya99 said:

Some thoughts on Larry from a San Diegan.

1) Don't underestimate the influence Larry has on baseball matters. If you think Theo was a mastermind who did it all on his own, you're crazy.

Two years ago the Red Sox ownership and management was on the same page and the common goal of winning the World Series. They put good people in management positions and gave them resources. I remember contrasting it to DeGioia's administration and Esherick as an example of what ownership support (or administration support in the Hoyas case) means to the success of a program.

Today I think they have switched situations. The Hoyas have an administration that put the right person in the job, is letting him do his job, and things seem like they are turning around. On the other hand, the Red Sox have won a World Series and their priorities don't seem to be building towards another - their priorities are dealing Manny Ramirez, internal power struggles, forming a media monopoly, building more seating, and demonizing any player or employee walking out the door.

Theo seemed like a genuinely good guy. The ownership (both Luccino and Henry) are brilliant guys but they don't care who they step on. I think it's only a matter of time until things fall apart (more than they have already).

[DanMcQ]

Once again, The Sports Guy has a compelling take on what may or may not have happened on Yawkey Way (much more believeable than the front-office pleasing spin Peter Gammons is peddling, for instance):

sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=2210441&type=story