SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jul 26, 2005 0:16:00 GMT -5
This is most hopeless argument ever, because there are so many different ways to define an athlete. That was my point. Lance is a freak of nature, though. Someone like Jordan was a great athlete, but, say, Dominique Wilkins was pretty comparable from an athletic standpoint. No one in cycling compares to Lance.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jul 26, 2005 9:35:20 GMT -5
140 beats per second? Man, that's pretty fast!
;D
As for the debate, I don't care all that much if people disagree on this issue. There are still lots of people who think that Jordan is not the greatest basektball player ever. I'd disagree with that, but I'm not going to say they don't have a case.
My case for him being the greatest "athlete" of my generation? It's really a combination of both athleticism and accomplishment.
In my opinion, the sport Armstrong excels in is more physically grueling than basketball, or hockey, or certainly golf. Again, disagree if you like, but that's my opinion.
As for marathoners or decathletes, well, I'd say maybe they should run 21 marathons, or compete in 21 decathalons, in three weeks and then we'll see.
Maybe that's too harsh. But OK. Is there a marathoner (really, I don't know) who's won, say, the Boston Marathon 7 years in a row? Is there a decathlete who's won seven national or world competitions in a row? I don't follow these sports, so I don't know, but my guess is probably no. I'll be happy to admit being wrong if anyone knows better.
The longevity of Armstrong's accomplishment is amazing. There's a reason no one has won more than 5 before. It's virtually impossible to maintain that level of excellence, in any sport, for such a long time. Jordan did it. Gretzky did it. I can't name too many others. (please don't say Tiger; I am in awe of his golf skill, and he is a fit athlete, but golf is just not in the same league).
Anyway, that's why. I won't get all riled up if anyone disagrees, just as long as your not a moron like Skip Bayless when you do it. Skip's case - in part - is that cycling does not require all-around body fitness like, say, basketball. All you need, basically, are good lungs and strong legs. This might be one of the most ignorant arguments I've ever read. I suggest Skip spend about 30 miles on a bike and then tell me how his arms, back, neck and shoulders feel. Let alone his legs.
He also goes on to say that Armstrong has no clutch moments, like Jordan did. This is simply someone who has never seen a bike race from start to finish. Hey, news flash: Clutch moments don't just happen at the buzzer, Skip. And Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods would probably be the first to tell you so.
Well, I don't know why I'm wasting my time with this idiot. He just Editedes me off, as he has for his whole career. I don't mind that he has different opinions. I mind that his seem to be based on nothing of substance.
As for the Tour itself, yes, it will drop off the radar for a while. I'm pretty sure OLN will still cover it for years to come (what else they got? Survivor reruns and BBQ competitions? ). I will continue to watch, because I like more cyclists than just Lance Armstrong. I imagine many people won't. That's OK. There will be another American who wins before too many years go by. Not 7 or even 5 or 3 in a row, but it will happen. Not right away. Leipheimer, Julich, Zabriskie, those guys probably can't do it, but another will come along before too long. There's a pretty good American on Discovery right now, Tom Danielson, who might have a chance in several years. He's riding in minor tours now, but he'll probably be on Discovery's Tour de France team within a couple years.
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hoyahoyasaxa
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Sead Dizdarezvic doesn't write term papers. The words rearrange themselves out of fear.
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Post by hoyahoyasaxa on Jul 26, 2005 11:22:34 GMT -5
All of his columns for ESPN are controversial on purpose, so I usually don't pay much attention to them.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Jul 26, 2005 12:45:20 GMT -5
140 beats per second? Man, that's pretty fast! I have a hard time getting my heart beat up to 120! Of course, at 60 years old, my max should be 220-60=160. 140 represents about 75% for Lance if you figure his age in. Maybe that's too harsh. But OK. Is there a marathoner (really, I don't know) who's won, say, the Boston Marathon 7 years in a row? Is there a decathlete who's won seven national or world competitions in a row? I don't follow these sports, so I don't know, but my guess is probably no. I'll be happy to admit being wrong if anyone knows better.[/quote] Grete Waitz won the New York City Marathon nine times; I am not sure how many times in a row. The current hotshot in distance running, Kenenisa Bekele, has won the short and the long XC Champs at least three times in a row, and he is only about 24. But Lance's seven is all the more impressive, because he did not have an injury or sickness in those seven years that cause him to miss a stage. That in itself is remarkable. And to go on and win each year is mindboggling. Anyway, that's why. I won't get all riled up if anyone disagrees, just as long as your not a moron like Skip Bayless when you do it. Skip's case - in part - is that cycling does not require all-around body fitness like, say, basketball. All you need, basically, are good lungs and strong legs. This might be one of the most ignorant arguments I've ever read. I suggest Skip spend about 30 miles on a bike and then tell me how his arms, back, neck and shoulders feel. Let alone his legs. [/quote] I don't ride (oh, I do some stationary bike riding on a recumbent with a big seat), but I took a spin class recently. I did not have cycling shorts, so after about 15 minutes, my butt, etc. were so sore that I almost called it quits.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Jul 26, 2005 12:53:14 GMT -5
I heard Lance's coach on Rome's show yesterday. Rome asked him how many Tours Lance would have won had he not had the bout with cancer. The coach said probably none, as the bout with cancer gave him a blueprint for the dedication that would be required to win the Tour. Interesting stuff.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jul 26, 2005 13:52:44 GMT -5
Armstrong was a pretty undisciplined rider early in his career. He had success in other races and events, but wasn't consistent enough to be a Tour contender.
Maybe it was just youth and he would have learned the discipline anyway, maybe not. For sure, I think the amount of work and dedication required for him to again become a world-class rider during his cancer recovery were definitely lessons he carried forward in the ensuing years. Kind of like Jerry Rice, virtually everyone acknowledges that no one in cycling trains like Lance Armstrong does...or did, I guess.
And I stand corrected on the marathon. Nine times, consecutive or not, pretty damn impressive. I don't know if I could WALK 26 miles.
(as for the heart rate, I was just making a joke aobut a typo - I don't even think Tony Montana snorting a mountain of cocaine could get up to 140 beats per second - beats per minute is what was meant, I think)
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Jul 27, 2005 11:13:19 GMT -5
Boz, didn't even catch that 140 bps. LOL!
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