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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2005 12:27:30 GMT -5
So apparently the NHL and the PA are close to a CBA... for real this time (despite league and union statements to the contrary).
Some provisions:
- Hard cap linked to 54% of league revenues - 24% rollback of existing player salaries - cap around $37-$40 million - no medical or dental benefits NOR pension payments - no All-Star game in the coming year to let players play in the Olympics
Combine that with a few rules changes:
- Smaller goalie equipment - Touch-Up offsides - Alleged strict interpretation of the obstruction rules - maybe "Open-Flow" hockey (red line becomes line to hold once gaining offensive zone) - SHOOTOUTS!
Sportsguy likes to say over on Page 2 how Stern crushed the NBA union, well compared to the deal they offered back in January, its apparent Bettman has DEMOLISHED Goodenow and the NHLPA. IF all of these changes go through - and that's a big IF - then I think the NHL has righted the ship. It will then be up to them to market the game better, push young stars the way the NBA did when they came back from the dead with Magic, Larry, etc.
I also like the no All-Star game thing. Although the NHL Skills Competition is better than anything any other all-star weekend has going for it, the Olympics will be a much better marketing tool in the long run.
I also like that last week they quietly announced they are legitimizing the "Shannahan Commission" by creating a player-GM-owner competition committee. This will REALLY help the game as it evolves, I believe. Rather than a bunch of GM's making rules changes, players will have an equal - if not greater - say. And they all want more scoring, faster paced games like the rest of us.
I know most people on the board aren't puckheads like myself and Boz and CT, but it probably is the best sport to see live, advances in and the expanding use of HDTV is going to make it much more TV-friendly (I've seen OHL games in HD... UNREAL! So much better than hockey on traditional TV... that plus if you see games on Canadian TV, its obvious the American camera men and producers are just plain stupid), there are a plethora of young marketable stars coming into their own in the league (Iginla is sick plus he's a minority, Sidney Crosby is about as highly touted in hockey circles as any prospect can be in his respective sports, plus you've got Kovalchuk, the Sedin twins, Vanek dominated the AHL this year and will be on my beloved Sabres come the fall, the list goes onnnn), and for good or bad they are going to have a lot of attention on them when they start up again.
"It's a Whole New Game." It better be... and they better make sure everyone sees it that way. But they shouldn't fall into the early 90's trap that killed the sport in the end - trying to make it as big and bad as the NBA used to be during that time. Its a niche sport, much like NASCAR. If they can follow a similar marketing plan, build local bases, get casual fans generally invovled, they'll be set and as health as they were when they were rockin' in the late 80's and early 90's.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Jul 7, 2005 12:35:06 GMT -5
What is the NHL? And does it exist?
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Jul 7, 2005 14:13:42 GMT -5
Well said _way. Btw, Buffalo the NHL had a pretty interesting season this year - to bad it was played in Russia.
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Jul 7, 2005 18:46:16 GMT -5
Maybe a hard cap could prevent my Rangers for paying aging one way players giant slaries and actually force them to ealuate talent and try to win. But it probably won't. I'm glad they're bringing the tag-up back, that's the way I played in youth hockey and it's what high schools use, and it is a much better rule than the one the NHL had been using.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jul 8, 2005 11:17:37 GMT -5
They make good video games out of it. So its got that going for it, which is nice.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Jul 9, 2005 13:35:36 GMT -5
I missed playoff hockey. Regular season hockey I've never really been able to get into, but I LOVE watching playoff hockey. I can't wait for it to be back.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jul 9, 2005 13:52:08 GMT -5
Question for the true believers out there--can the NHL really make it staying with 30 teams (about 14 more than they need) and no substantive TV contract? ESPN isn't coming back, the networks aren't biting, and maybe the Fox regional networks could pick some of it up, but there's no "Hockey Night In America" that will ever stir up viewers for Tampa Bay and Atlanta, much less Dallas-Anaheim or Nashville-Columbus.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Jul 9, 2005 16:45:50 GMT -5
You have hit on it DFW, the league over-extended itself after Gretzky at the expense of its Canadian base of supporters the damage that Winnepeg and Quebec leaving for Phoenix and Colorado respectively did to hockey in Canada has often been understated. In addtition the league should have realized it was over-extended when Columbus edged out a Tulsa-Oklahoma City combo team - that's going way beyond the bounds of normal professional sports markets and very far away from the real base of hockey. In addition, the game needs to become more exciting for the duration of its season - which is why I think the rules changes will be a positive step - having 0-0 ties in the season makes the fan at the game wonder "what did I just spend 3 hours doing?"
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jul 11, 2005 14:08:26 GMT -5
Well, first of all, isn't THIS a breath of fresh air!
Me and my friend Jeremy Roenick have a few choice words for those who'd like to continue to mock the NHL, but I'll leave that alone for now. J.R. won't be elected to any public office anytime soon.
As for the financial aspects of the agreement, I'm not really an expert on those, but having played hockey, I know that hockey players are better at torturous hazing than almost any other athletes (with the possible exception of Texas high school football players). So, it seems safe to say that Mr. Goodenow will not come through the next few months with his jubblies intact.
I do think a network will come calling. Not right away, and certainly not with the sweetest of deals by any means, but I think it'll happen. I've resigned to have to pay a lot this next season to watch games (and apparently, I need to get myself an HDTV), but I'd probably do that anyway. For the average fan, it will be harder to see games, so it will be a longer road back more than just a season, certainly, but it will happen.
Did hockey overexpand (and expand away from its true fan base)? Yes, most certainly. There are as many teams in the South as there are in Canada. As Buff alluded, sure NASCAR has races in California and the Northeast, but that's not where they're focused. It's a little bit of toothpaste back in the tube kind of thing, though, getting rid of teams, but I wouldn't mind cutting back by a couple in each conference.
Anyway, I'm not too concerned with that (though I still have a hard time saying Nashville and hockey in the same sentence). Of the dozen or so proposed rule changes right now, I like most of them, except I'd prefer eliminating the red line completely. Two-line passes? I hate that call more than most any other. I'd also like to see bigger ice, but I'm not sure if that's possible, given the various arenas. However, if you eliminate the red line, you could accomplish somewhat of the same goal by moving the goal line and blue lines further toward center ice. This would create more space behind the net without reducing the size of the offensive zone.
I don't like shootouts, but I recognize a tie after a full game and overtime is a little anticlimactic. I don't see it as a "what were the last three+ hours for ? " situation, but I am probably the exception, not the rule. I think shootouts in the regular season can work, they have in the minors, but the losing team should get one point for the tie. That's not on the table now, but it probably will be what they end up with. I really don't like the idea of one 4-on-4 OT followed by a 3-on-3 OT, THEN a shootout, that's just gimmicky. If you're really going to try to open up play with the other rules, then just have a regular sudden death OT and then have the shootout.
Everything else, I like. However, Buff, what is this nonsense about listing young stars, and no discussion of Joe Thronton or Sergei Samsonov? Not to mention Andrew Raycroft or Patrice Bergeron.
OK, OK, I won't belabor it. Boston fans are the worst kinds of fans, I know, so I'll try not to be one of them. (besides, those players haven't really performed yet when it counts). Yes, I am a Bruins fan, the only team in the entire New England area that I do like. But hockey for me is like football. As long as there is a good game on, I'll be watching it, no matter who is playing. And as long as the Rangers suck, I'm a happy man. (seriously though, while it would put a damper on my own spirits, the Rangers getting their act together and putting a winner out on the ice would probably be a pretty good boost for the league as well)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2005 15:10:43 GMT -5
Yeah, Boz. Those choke artists on the Bruins were left off for a reason. And in order to preserve our on-line friendship and any level of civility, I'll refrain from going after Cam Neeley as well The NHL does not need to go down to 12 teams or whatever some people suggest. They CAN exist with the 30 they have as it will be just like the NASCAR point you made: focus is in one area, with a few reaches in others. The fact of the matter is, expansion/moving has been solid in Denver, Dallas, Columbus and San Jose. It has yet to pan out in Anaheim, Miami, Atlanta (of course, Miami and Atlanta are reputed as the worst sports cities in America anyway), and Nashville. Phoenix will be an interesting case study because they've gotten progressively more popular each year in the league (or so my friends and family in Phoenix tell me). Plus now they have a shiny new rink so we'll see. I think no more two-line pass is part of the package, Boz. Its all but gone. I REALLY like the "open flow" idea or whatever its called. My dad's golfing buddy Scotty Bowman seems to love it, and who are we to argue with him?! Seriously though, I watched footage from that camp they had outside Toronto a month or so ago where they tried everything out... it looks AMAZING. When you only have to hold center ice once you reach your opponents zone, things are opened WAY up. I can imagine lots of teams running set plays now, getting guys heads of steam towards the nets... should be great. The Sabres minor league team the Rochester Amerks played a few games in Buffalo this past year with some of these rule changes. It was noticeable. But I went to a game in Crotch-chester and saw a shootout... the place was going nuts. Its going to be great for hockey... as will dumping the All-Star game this year and replacing it with the Olympics - where the best in the world go NUTS for a couple weeks. I agree - Goodenow lost his job. They shoulda taken the February offer, had a truncated season where every game would have counted and then had a mad dash playoffs. And hockey playoffs, for anyone who's watched, are so much better game for game than baseball, football (and I love football), and that horrible, horrible ugly, disgusting thing called the NBA playoffs. I'm ready for the new season. Should be fantastic. Just so long as they follow through on all of this stuff! Shrink those goalies!
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jul 11, 2005 16:34:07 GMT -5
Now, now. Behave. I grew up in Rochester. (Actually I worked for the Amerks for 2 years in high school; Van Boxmeer used to yell at me all the time between periods if they were losing. . .good times!)
Rochester's got a lot going for it. Hmmm. Well, maybe not, but still. It's my hometown, gotta' stick by it.
You might be wondering why I'm not a Bills & Sabres fan growing up there. My answer to that usually is, "Well, I grew up near Syracuse too and I hate those bastards!"
Actually, my affiliation with the B's is directly related to playing. I wanted to be a good defenseman (I wasn't; I more or less sucked), so who better to "hero-worship" than the greatest defenseman of all time? I started liking the Bruins as soon as I knew how to spell the name Bobby Orr, even though he was done well before I learned to even tie a skate lace. It just grew from there. I am indifferent to and/or hate most other New England teams.
Back to the topic, no I'd hate to see the NHL cut back too much, but like you said, they took things too far from the houge popularity surge in '94. I can live without a lot of the teams in the South, but yes, they should keep Dallas, one Florida team, one LA team, maybe Phoenix. Cut or relocate the others (and bring back the Whalers!).
I haven't seen the rule changes in action that you have, so I'll take your word for it on the center line issue for now. It makes me a little nervous is all. Yes, it would also eliminate the two-line pass, and it would create wide open opportunities for offense. On the other hand, while I like the idea of a more open game, I don't want to change it completely. I worry that eliminating the neutral zone altogether might go a little too far. I will admit being very much intrigued though.
And I will leave you with the words every Cam Neely fan says to huimself or out loud at least once a season:
ULF SAMUELSSON MUST DIE!
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jul 11, 2005 17:19:19 GMT -5
I understand SOME of the hatred of shootouts in sports. Namely that it isn't "real" hockey or soccer/football. And yes, they play a really long time to have it come down to so little.
But I'm with Buff. Is there ANYTHING more tense, exciting, than a shootout? It's like the last possession in basketball, a last second FG attempt in football or a 3-2 count in the bottom of the ninth in baseball.
And as long as the NHL is primarily American-based, screw the point system. You lose the shootout, you lose the game. Wins and losses, baby. Ties are for Europeans.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jul 12, 2005 9:03:31 GMT -5
I kind of dispute the notion that shootouts are the most exciting thing, or could be the most exciting thing, about sports or hockey.
It's not that they're not "real," or part of the game. Hockey has penalty shots that are earned in the course of a game, as does soccer. Those are exciting moments, to be sure. But your analogy is pretty apt. It's like a 3-2 count, or waiting for a last second field goal. You get all that anticipation and tension, but that's not really what makes hockey great for me. The best part about hockey (and again, this is all my opinion), is that the excitement and action is non-stop. Waiting for a single moment is why people like baseball. Watching fast-moving, constantly flowing motion is why people like hockey. There's no way anyone will ever convince me that the tension of a shootout can even remotely compare to the excitement of sudden death overtime.
Now, having said that, you can't have endless overtimes in the regular season. It just wouldn't work, unless you shortened the season to 30 games or so. So, I do recognize shootouts as a viable option for determining winners in the regular season. A good option even; they've worked before, they can work again. And, obviously, no one is proposing them for the post-season.
And, yes, while I am as red state American as anyone, and don't like doing anything that Europeans do ;D the idea of straight wins and losses and no point system will never sell in the NHL. I can virtually guarantee that the shootout system will not be adopted unless it comes with a consolation prize for the loser.
A compromise might be available. Say, if a team wins in the overtime period, nothing for the loser, but if it goes to a shootout, at least one point for both teams that get that far.
But you know what? They could decide games in the regular season with windsprints for all I care. I just want the game back.
And by the way, Mr. Roenick. Get your buddies Drury, Deadmarsh, Guerin, Rolston, Tkachuk & company geared up for next February, as long as you're riling everyone else up. A strong performance (to wit: making the gold medal game) by Team USA in the Olympics will be invaluable in terms of winning back American fans. And don't trash your hotel rooms!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2005 10:49:20 GMT -5
Here's my take on the shootout: love it or hate it, gotta have it. Ties are so rare in the NFL, it isn't a problem - but if they occured as often as they do in hockey, you can get your sweet ass they'd fix that right quick. Hockey needs to fix the tie "problem" - especially when people watch the Olympics and go NUTS for the shootouts. I say this - any type of win gets you 2 points, any OT or shootout loss gets you 1 point. That should appease everyone to a certain extent - at this point hockey purists don't got no leg to stand on.
I'm with you on the tension of sudden death OT, though, Boz. Even if it ain't the Sabres in a playoff OT game, I'm on the edge of my seat (mostly because in ANY matchup I can pick a team I'd rather have win... unless it was the Bruins vs. the Leafs in which case I'd root for a meteor).
Here's my problem though - I'm wondering if the NHL - once it adopts shootouts, and it will - should even bother keeping the 4-on-4 overtime period. Why not guarantee the excitement of one by going right from regulation to a 5-man shootout. Shortens the games a bit and gets everybody hyped up right away, rather than having to sit through the 4-on-4 and any Zamboni time that may come up. I vote dump the regular season OT period completely and go right to shootouts. That's what people want to see anyway, especially more than 4-on-4, which most people don't even realize they are using to begin with.
The Olympics are going to be SICK this year - better than the last two, I think, simply because all teams involved are going to be significantly younger (unless Canada does decide to bring Mess, Lemieux, Stevie Y and the rest of those geezers back).
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jul 12, 2005 15:49:42 GMT -5
Sudden death overtime rocks -- and should stay for the playoffs. But you need something there in the rather common case of no scoring in OT.
While I'm a huge baseball fan (#1 sport for me), I like hockey as well. Unfortunately, I've been cripple by the lack of a home team. I'm very much a homer - that's what gets me into a sport -- so living in SF and SD and DC...the only time I've really followed was whilst in DC.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jul 13, 2005 12:21:50 GMT -5
Woo-hoo? Well, I suppose at least "woo" is in order today, if not full-blown "woo-hoo". sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=2106776This should be interesting now. Forget the rule changes. Just the signing period should be pretty crazy. It's entirely possible the Bruins will start next season with a team of nobodies, but I hope not. Still, they've got a LOT of players to sign. Maybe they'll win the lottery and get Crosby.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2005 13:41:48 GMT -5
The draft lottery is going to be nuts. If the Rangers get #1, this'll be worse than the Knicks getting the rights to pick who would later be Ewing. I personally hope he goes to the Blackhawks. Big market, worst owner in the game, would force them to get their act together. Plus I hate the Rangers. And the Bruins. The only thing I'm not a fan of is this talk of 10 teams per conference in the playoffs? Two-thirds of the league makes the playoffs? That would be acceptable only if you reduced the length of the regular season a good bit. But I haven't seen talk of that. We'll see. I can't wait to print out (on the company's printer and paper, of course) this 600-page monster of a document, see if I can't find any loopholes myself... market myself to a team in need of some young blood ! We'll have to keep this thread alive for when the lottery plays out as well as the draft and INSANE singning period.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Jul 13, 2005 14:08:40 GMT -5
Um, Mr. Buffalo...as a gift from the God fearing gang over on the MLB boards, I'd like to present you with this model horse, crafted from eighty four kegs of Molson Ice. Consider it a peace offering...how bout we just roll it right in here...that's right...smack in the middle of your clubhouse. Alright, enjoy!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2005 14:23:33 GMT -5
Man, why does everyone think I hate baseball? I love baseball! I just think they could do better to level the playing field for all teams and in turn make the league a whole lot better (the NFL, to wit), and that this world tournament is kinda dumb - its scheduling specifically. Leave me alone, you baseball bullies! I just wanna join the club!
As for this Molson Horse you've presented me with, I accept it with great honor and respect, sir. I shall place it in our clubhouse overnight, sleep soundly without any interruptions, and awake in the morning to drink all 84 one by one with my puckhead chums.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jul 13, 2005 15:58:36 GMT -5
They could be confusing you with me. I've been known for quite a few anti-baseball rants on the previous incarnation of this board.
I don't really bother anymore. Baseball fans can have all the threads they want, now that there is a board for them. I don't have to pay attention to those posts anymore.
I have my sport back, that's all I care about. Baseball fans can enjoy our national 'it-passed-the-time' to their heart's content.
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