Lebron James: The real thing?

[the_way]

I just have this question. Given all the hype, and given all of the accolades on this young man. Given all of the stats he put up this year. Some things I can't put my finger on yet: Is Lebron one of the great ones to be? Is Lebron going to be better than Jordan? Is Lebron going to be a notch below Jordan,but in the AI, Kobe, T-mac, Tim Duncan level of players. Or is Lebron going to be just a great player in the League but never really displaying the characteristics of that "special" player. I bring this up because I've notice the last 2 years, he has been outshined by his counterparts in the draft. Carmelo in the first year, and Wade in the first and second year. Granted, Carmelo and Wade's team this year were better than Lebron's, but Carmelo led his team to the playoff's with a lame duck coach his rookie year. Wade led his team to the playoffs after a horrendous start in his rookie year. It will be interesting to see. What do you guy's think?

[nychoya3]

Well, Lebron is almost certainly the best 20 year old basketball player ever to set foot on the earth. That's pretty damn good. How will he develop? Will he show the clutch instincts of Jordan? I don't know. He plays very hard, but it's tough to really judge his guts until he has to play in some big playoff games. So, what you have is a high character player, 20 years old, who is probably the most physically gifted guy in the entire league. And he has fantastic court vision. So, no, I don't think he's overhyped. His floor is to be Tracy McGrady, and no quite be able to carry his team to the championship, but putting up some absurd stats (triple double for a season?). His ceiling is to join Jordan, Magic, Bird, Wilt and a couple others on the NBA Mount Rushmore. Pretty good. It's going to be fun to watch.

Oh, and no way have Melo or Wade outshone him. Melo didn't lead anyone anywhere - he was a very good player, but clearly not as good as Lebron. And the gap got a whole lot wider this year. And Wade, well, Wade plays with Shaq. I love Wade, and he will be great in his own right, but he isn't the player Lebron is.

[the_way]

I can see where you are coming from with Carmelo. I brought him up because there were rumblings about why he didn't get Rookie of the year and Lebron did.

But in terms of Wade. I don't know. I think Wade may be better. I don't think that is a stretch. Remember Wade, in his rookie year had shown flashes (no pun intended) of greatness and led his team to the playoffs. He was the best player on his team then. It wasn't like Wade pulled a Damon Jones and all of sudden his game wasn't useless anymore once Shaq came on board. Wade was pretty good from the get go.

All in all, I wouldn't be suprised if James does not surpass Wade in terms of being a better player for a career in the NBA. Now, I wouldn't be surprised if James becomes that "special" player either. However, I'm going to hold my judgement until I see James in some playoff games.

[Deleted]

_way I am not going to get into this with you - and I suggest others follow suit - seeing as how you're clearly projecting a player's performance. This is basketball, not math. Who cares about his stats and his accolades?

Jesus, these guys are two years into what will probably be 15 year plus careers. This is like talking about Harold Miner or any of the other "Next Jordans" after a year or two. Let LeBron be the first LeBron, Wade be the first Wade, all that crap. EVERYONE is a notch below Jordan.

[Deleted]

Curious, _way - what do you consider a "special" player?

Basketball relies too much on your supporting cast to make championships a black and white measure of special. As fans we can look at a team and say "ok, they should go a lot farther if he were a real special player" much like people say with T-Mac and Garnett. LeBron hasn't had a team even CLOSE to that yet. But I'd call him a special player, considering he's done what he's done at 20. Same with Wade. I think 'Melo regressed a bit this year but came on strong so time will tell with him. If LeBron goes from bad team to bad team his whole career, but he's still putting up nasty numbers, dominating his contemporaries when they play head to head... does that preclude him from being special?

[the_way]

Well Buff, I think the jury is still out on Lebron.

To me the "special" players in the NBA are:

Shaq - (beyond special, you are automatically a playoff team with Shaq on your team)

Duncan - obvious

Allen Iverson a.k.a Bubbachuck - without a doubt

Kobe - got beat up this year in the press, but still is
a special player.

T-Mac - many may disagree, but the guy did put a team on his back to the first round of the playoffs a couple times in Orlando. He played with scrubs in Orlando at every position, literal srubs. Anytime Bob Sura, Charlie Ward, and Mike James are the best backourt mate you ever played with this year in Houston in your career, you know you played with some scrubs. He is a diva though.

Those are what I consider special players.

Honorable Mention for a special player would be Ron Artest. Aside from his brain farts (putting it mildy), the guy is a must-have on a team. I think if he is not suspended this year, the Pacers are in the Finals and may have beaten the Spurs.

I don't put KG in that category of "special". KG is above Vince Carter. Both have all the talent in the world, but no mental toughness and no heart, particularly in clutch. I'd take KG over Vince any and every day. KG suffers from the David Robinson syndrome. He will never win a title or make it to the finals when he is the focal point of the team. Although he has franchise talent, he needs another star or person(s) of focus for his teams to do anything significant to really contend for a championship.

Vince on the other hand is a disgrace. Vince has the same amount of talent as Kobe or T-mac, but he has no heart, no courage, just nothing when it comes to a competitive spirit.


Guys who could wind up being special:

Dwayne Wade - if he can stay consistently healthy
Carmelo Anthony - if he gets his head straight
Lebron James - we will see in the next 2 years.

[Deleted]

The problem with LeBron - and its not his problem - is that people are going to measure him directly against Jordan for some reason, so anything less than a handful of rings at the end of his career won't be good enough. Wade and 'Melo won't get that severe treatment, and will likely "pass muster" as special players in a much easier fashion.

To say all 'Melo has to do to be a "special" player is get his head straight, all Wade has to do is stay healthy and then say LeBron has two years to prove it is nuts. They ALL need to prove it. They ALL need to stay healthy. They ALL need to keep their heads straight. I personally think as a pure basketball player, LeBron is the best of the three - I'd like to see him with Shaq or Wade with the Cavs - hell look at Kobe without Shaq. Situations being what they are, all three of these guys have loads of time to prove their "worthiness."

When Jordan was duking it out with 'Nique in dunk contests and neither were winning titles, they were both "special" players... over time, Jordan proved his superiority (to everyone). Who's to say these guys don't evolve that way as well? Who's to say T-Mac doesn't win four titles before he retires? I just think comparing guys THAT YOUNG to the all-time greats on anything other than a purely statistical basis is insane.

[the_way]

Buff, I hear you. Its a young man's game. Lebron skipped high school. He should warrant the criticism.

I think Lebron is good player right now. But, I have seen what Carmelo has done in college and the pros in the playoffs. I have seen the same with Wade. I have seen so-called great players look good in regular season games, and then crap out in the playoffs. That is why we will see with Lebron in a couple of years.

I'm not comparing him to Jordan because I don' t think Lebron will be that good. The closest thing to Jordan is Allen Iverson. Nobody is as good a talent and mentally tough as Iverson since Jordan. Nobody is as good as Iverson. God just didn't bless Iverson with enough height.

[hoyarooter]

LeBron skipped high school? Was he playing Carnegie Hall at age 7? He must be quite the prodigy!

Anyway, I agree. Both LeBron and Wade may prove to be very special players. And so may Dwight Howard prove to be. And Amare Stoudimire is very close.

But when comparing LeBron and Wade, you do have to remember that Wade had the advantage of honing his game in college. I don't think anyone has been as good as LeBron at his age. I don't know where he will end up, but I, for one, am looking forward to enjoying the ride.

[Thomas]

Some of you need to remember that Carmelo Anthony and Lebron James put up similar numbers as rookies. C.Anthony decided to get heavy and act like a CRIMINAL during the summer, while L.James improved his game.

I don't think we should start the talk of Lebron being better at a certain age than Michael Jordan was at the same age. We did that with Kobe Bryant for YEARS and K.Bryant has shown himself to be a FRAUD! The bottom line about Lebron James is he has yet to participate in the playoffs. After a while people will start focusing on that, instead of believing the HYPE MACHINE that has been proclaiming him the next Michael Jordan since the beginning of his senior year in high school.

I've written this before, but I believe L.James is taking a similar career path to Tracy McGrady and Grant Hill. He'll put up BIG numbers and his teams will lose in the first round of the playoffs or not even make the playoffs. Picking up Larry Hughes won't help the Cavs defeat the likes of Miami, Detroit, New Jersey, and Indiana in the playoffs.

[StPetersburgHoya (Inactive)]

IMHO Amare should be added to way's list of special players - when you throw down the numbers that he had in that playoff series on an already special player like Duncan and are responsible for one of the greatest plays in your franchise's history (The Block) then I think you can be reasonably be assumed to be specail - don't forget about his rookie of the year season as well and the fact that his game has drastically improved both years.