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Post by AustinHoya03 on Oct 12, 2005 1:34:42 GMT -5
With the Hoya gridders traveling to Ithaca this weekend to face the school with one of the more ludicrous fight songs in the Union, thought I'd bring up the subject of Georgetown's fight song.
School fight songs become school fight songs once they are embraced by students. I'd bet Cornell's "Give My Regards to Davy," about a student kicked off campus for over-boozing, wasn't embraced by the turn-of-the-century Cornell administration, but it stuck. Similarly, not many Texas Aggies know the first verse of their fight song, which was rejected by students because they thought it sounded too much like an Ivy League fight song. Today's Texas A&M students sing the second verse twice.
Which brings me to my point. One could argue convincingly that the Georgetown fight song has been rejected to some extent by the student body.
Don't get me wrong, I know all the words and have belted them at the top of my lungs on many occasions. I love Georgetown and its history, and am proud to be a Hoya. But I'd guess at least 1/3 of my graduating class never learned the words to the fight song (other than Hoya! Hoya! Saxa!). A 2004 viewpoint in The Hoya encouraging student attendance at basketball games actually suggests it's okay to not know all the words:
"Now, I’ve heard people moan about [singing the fight song], saying, “It’s too long” or “It doesn’t get me pumped up.” I say, no matter what, it’s still our fight song, and we should all know it. At the very least, when our band plays it, clap along from start to finish, sing the parts you know, and yell “Hoya Saxa!” as loud as you can."
A 2003 sports column suggesting atmosphere improvements at MCI also bemoans the lack of singing:
"[The band] need to play the fight song more (and when they do, everyone needs to sing along)"
(Full Disclosure: The results of my quick search of The Hoya's archives included some articles which mention the fight song in a positive light as well. Oddly, most of them mention the singing of the fight song in non-athletic-event settings.)
So what's wrong with the fight song? Is it time to axe it and write something new? Is the real problem a general disinterest in sporting events among the student body (being turned around rapidly by the new HB leadership)? Would a new fight song be even more unpopular?
Side note for discussion: Another funny thing about the fight song I noticed recently while looking over old records: the story goes that we sing about "those loyal fellas up at Yale" and "the sons of Harvard" in the final verse because back in the day those schools were our traditional football rivals. However, according to the official records Georgetown has played Yale and Harvard a total of zero times. We've played Navy 19 times, Cornell once (the first game was in 2003), Holy Cross 17 times, and Princeton 5. Not exactly your Lehigh-Lafayette type rivalries. So how did these schools get into the fight song? On the other hand, it's easy to see how Virginia got into the original version of what is now the first verse: GU defeated UVA for 4 consecutive years between 1910 and 1913, and hoyasaxa.com lists the song as being written circa 1914. Interestingly, 1913 is the last time the two schools met on the football field.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Oct 12, 2005 1:46:42 GMT -5
It's long, it's hard to learn (but c'mon, its crap that people at Georgetown don't know it--you're at Gtown b/c you're smart--you can learn a 4 verse song) and the pep band insists on playing it at random times and at times when there's no way in hell they're going to be able to finish it (like starting it after the Hoyas scored the touchdown, stopping when the Hoyas kicked the extra point and then picking up where they left off after the refs signalled the kick good).
But it's our fight song. True its random. But its ours. I think the lack of people embracing it is because its hard to learn (which is HB's job to teach--ESCAPE also does a decent job of teaching it as well) and it's not cool to like it.
Kind of like its not cool to cheer at games. I think that its ours and it should stay. And I think that if HB teaches it, emphasizes it and the pep band could figure out when to play it and when not to (seriously, its really, really obnoxious having to keep singing it 5 minutes into the 2nd half instead of cheering for a Bowman dunk/Wallace trey b/c the pep band decided to play it during the first TV timeout but had to cut it short once play resumed) that it won't be rejected, but instead embraced.
And also, I doubt that anything would replace it so much as we just wouldn't have a fight song. Then we'd be like Providence, which, to the best of my sophmore Friar brother's knowledge, is just the song "when the saints go marching in" with Friars replacing Saints. And that's just stupid.
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FormerHoya
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Post by FormerHoya on Oct 12, 2005 8:57:32 GMT -5
I like the fight song. I like that it is long and weird. Its ours, and there isn't another one like it. I especially liked the acapella rendition by some slightly overserved gentlemen at my wedding. That may be my favorite picture in the wedding album.
On another note, just wait for the Marquette hoops game this year, you'll hear a truly inane fight song then...
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CAHoya07
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Post by CAHoya07 on Oct 12, 2005 9:47:42 GMT -5
A 2004 viewpoint in The Hoya encouraging student attendance at basketball games actually suggests it's okay to not know all the words: "Now, I’ve heard people moan about [singing the fight song], saying, “It’s too long” or “It doesn’t get me pumped up.” I say, no matter what, it’s still our fight song, and we should all know it. At the very least, when our band plays it, clap along from start to finish, sing the parts you know, and yell “Hoya Saxa!” as loud as you can." OK, I was the person that wrote this viewpoint. First of all, I never suggested that it's OK not to know all the words. See where I wrote, "we all should know it"? I'm just asking those unfortunate saps that don't to be enthusiastic about it and do their best. For the record, and you could probably tell from the article, I don't really like our fight song for the above reasons. I don't have much experience in fight songs, I was a Stanford fan before I came here and their fight song was Free's "It's All Right Now." But a fight song should be a great unifier, at times our fight song is and at times it isn't. Nevertheless, I'm with TBird, no matter what you think about it, it's OUR fight song, and we should know it and be proud of it. It should be sung and promoted as much as it is already at games, during NSO, during Escape, etc. There's a lot of tradition in it, and I don't really think it should be changed unless we can find something as steeped in tradition but with much more, I don't know, fight.
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Oct 12, 2005 10:27:46 GMT -5
Our fight song is too long; many people never even attempt to learn it because of this. I sat down and memorized it in the first 48 hours after moving in, but that's because it high school, it was imperative that every freshman learn the fight song by the end of our half day orientation, so I figured it would be important to know. Most people I know never tried to learn the GU fight song. That being said, it is our fight song, and I think trying to replace it would only make the situation worse. Increasing efforts to teach the song to freshmen would probably be the best solution to the problem.
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FormerHoya
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Post by FormerHoya on Oct 12, 2005 10:32:15 GMT -5
Look on the bright side, imagine if one of the football players made an NFL squad (not likely, I know, but bear with me). Imagine the hilarity of lockerroom hazing when he was made to sing his school's fight song and it ran for 6 minutes. I'd laugh.
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tgo
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Post by tgo on Oct 12, 2005 11:17:12 GMT -5
i love the fight song and take every chance i get to sing it and i still mess it up on occasion since it is so long. at alumni events alums of every generation sit back, mouth agape, when anyone attempts to sing the song, since 95% of those at the event dont even know the "hoya hoya saxa" part. there should be some agreed upon quick 1 verse version that is the standard so that it isnt always an all day event singing the song and then you just bring out the 4 verse version when the situation merits. and that should be printed on everything freshmen get during orientation.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Oct 12, 2005 11:51:49 GMT -5
Remember, the present fight song is not just one song but three different songs patched together. Perhaps just getting people to memorize the first ("There Goes Old Georgetown") may be a start.
Ths post above correctly identifies Cornell as having a catchy fight song (and probably the only one which salutes a student getting thrown out of the school). Not many fight songs can sing about a coach (David Foy), a dean (T.F. Crane) and a bar (Theodore Zinck's) and get it to work; of course, it also helps to have had George M. Cohan write the music:
"Give my regards to Davy, Remember me to Tee Fee Crane, Tell all the pikers on the hill, That I'll be back again! Tell them just how I busted, Lapping up the high, high-ball. We'll all have drinks at Theodore Zinck's, When I get back next fall!"
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Oct 12, 2005 12:49:11 GMT -5
DFW, what explanation for the mention of all the fine eastern universities that have never been athletic rivals (or at least football rivals) in the fight song?
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Oct 12, 2005 13:12:32 GMT -5
Well, so far we've got multiple references to "our" fight song in this thread. To what group of people does "our" refer to? Hoyatalkers? Hoya Blue board members? Alumni? Clearly not the current undergraduate population, since a good chunk of them haven't taken the time to learn the song. And that's my real problem. I haven't disparaged the fight song's length, or it's tune, or the lyrics. I don't want to kill "our fight song." I just want everyone to sing it. Simply saying it's "ours," when that pronoun doesn't encompass the entire GU campus, isn't going to get students singing along. I like the fight song, sang all the words at games when I was a student, and if everyone else knew the words and sang along too I wouldn't have brought this subject up. If something could be done to get everyone to sing it, or any other song Georgetown could call its own, I would be highly pleased. Maybe that something is shortening it up, as tgo suggested. Maybe that something is simpler: say, getting students more interested in athletic events via HB's efforts and a successful 2005-06 basketball season. I don't really have the answers. I just think it's weird/sad that some of my classmates are proud of their university but don't know the words to the fight song. One other related comment: this web link says GU sings the first 1/2 of the fight song after a TD, the rest after the PAT. Apparently nobody told the band. www.1122productions.com/fightsongs/g.html
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Post by SoCal Hoya85 on Oct 12, 2005 13:24:26 GMT -5
I love our fight song, it has a good melody, its poetic "ere the sun has sunk to rest in the cradle of the west," and we manage to say how much better we are than a half dozen other schools. I wouldn't change one single line. I also think that more freshman know it than last year, and thats a trend i see continuing. While it isnt easy to keep a whole fan base pumped through a four verse fight song, acomplishing it just shows how damn spirited us Hoyas are. If anything we should add a verse, preferebly a tribute to Roy's grace or Thompson's wisdom
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nodak89
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Post by nodak89 on Oct 12, 2005 13:33:18 GMT -5
Don't change it. Just learn it.
I think it is absolutely essential that we have this obscurely esoteric and eclectic fight song. I mean even our team name is mysterious and cloaked in legends of Greek and Latin.
Why would we have an ordinary Big State U fight song?
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Oct 12, 2005 13:36:45 GMT -5
Austin:
I tried to convey the fact that the song itself is unwieldy, but it has the tradition. It's the fight song. I could maybe see shortening it to help w/ learning it (I think that it's unnecessary though), but I think the key is to teach it (NSO, ESCAPE, Hoya Blue) at every opportunity (we've put it on every cheer sheet so far) and to get people pumped and into the games. If you don't care about the sports teams or don't care to cheer at the games, then you don't care about the fight song.
That being said, I've had many random people join in w/ me and my friends when we're singing the fight song walking back from the fountain or on the bus back from basketball games. The fight song will be popular if cheering at games is popular. And when I say "our" fight song I'm talking about the group that goes and cheers and has school spirit--the more people we get to feel a part of that group, the more people that "our" includes (and I think that as Hoya Blue takes off, so will the fight song's popularity).
And 2 verses before the extra point and 2 verses after part must have been what the band was doing at the Duquesne game. Somebody told them, but nobody told Hoya Blue. This will be corrected on the cheer sheet for Homecoming.
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nodak89
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Post by nodak89 on Oct 12, 2005 13:58:38 GMT -5
One of my favorite memories of graduation on Healy Lawn was singing the Fight Song (all of it) as we marched in with our caps and gowns.
That and sitting on John Carroll's lap. I have had that picture in my office forever.
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FormerHoya
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Post by FormerHoya on Oct 12, 2005 14:12:15 GMT -5
I have a "Double Domer" friend who not only loves our fight song, but will break out into it with regularity when he's been in his cups. Including at ND tailgates when all you can hear is the (possibly best "fight song" ever) Victory March all around.
If he can know it, I say all GU students should know it.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Oct 12, 2005 14:49:10 GMT -5
TBird:
Good points. I think you're probably right that the fight song's popularity is chained to attendance/participation at GU sporting events, and that the fight song will be more popular as athletic events become more popular through the good work HB is doing.
I went to the GU football games as a student and really don't remember the band breaking up the fight song that way, so probably nobody ever told us, either. Glad you're getting it on the cheer sheets and maybe this info can be passed on during next year's NSO fight song lessons as well.
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CAHoya07
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Post by CAHoya07 on Oct 12, 2005 16:27:34 GMT -5
During NSO, the fight song is omnipresent, with constant questions of "How long's it been?" going back and forth. I remember one OA telling me she had sung the fight song approximately 42 times over three days. Also, as previously mentioned, the fight song is a staple of ESCAPE, a two-day retreat attended by many first-year students. That's when I learned it, on the bus ride back when it was sung continuously for the last half hour or so.
Hoya Blue should promote the fight song too, and we have been, by putting it on cheer sheets and making it a big part of the NSO rally, which included a fight song singing contest. I think we're on the right track with it, and I have noticed more people knowing it and singing it. I just hope it can be the big unifier that I'm honestly not sure it can be.
A couple things: Austin asked whose fight song is it? It's Georgetown's fight song. Whether you know it or not, like it or not, if you're a student, alumni, or even a fan, it's your fight song. Just like if I'm a Ohio State student but I don't know the fight song, that doesn't mean that it's not my fight song. Know it and love it.
Finally, anybody know when this version of the fight song was created, and when people started singing it? I know it's three separate songs put together, but when did people start singing it in this format? Calling DFW...
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Oct 12, 2005 18:38:03 GMT -5
I went to the GU football games as a student and really don't remember the band breaking up the fight song that way, so probably nobody ever told us, either. Glad you're getting it on the cheer sheets and maybe this info can be passed on during next year's NSO fight song lessons as well. The band's done the Fight Song that was as long as I've been going to football games (since 2000-2001)--unless I'm crazy or forgetful. Of course the thing is, how many students were really there TO NOTICE in the first place. And it's not like the atmosphere at our football games has ever gotten to the point of "people doing stuff or singing stuff". Lots of great points in this thread. I agree with everything TBird said especially...although I wonder if anybody's thought to notice how often (or not) students read the cheer sheets HB's put out at games over the years.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Oct 12, 2005 20:59:55 GMT -5
Remember, the present fight song is not just one song but three different songs patched together. Perhaps just getting people to memorize the first ("There Goes Old Georgetown") may be a start. Ths post above correctly identifies Cornell as having a catchy fight song (and probably the only one which salutes a student getting thrown out of the school). Not many fight songs can sing about a coach (David Foy), a dean (T.F. Crane) and a bar (Theodore Zinck's) and get it to work; of course, it also helps to have had George M. Cohan write the music: "Give my regards to Davy, Remember me to Tee Fee Crane, Tell all the pikers on the hill, That I'll be back again! Tell them just how I busted, Lapping up the high, high-ball. We'll all have drinks at Theodore Zinck's, When I get back next fall!"Just got my invitation to Zinck's night at one of the local bars (in my capacity as a Cornell alumnus). My wife and I went once, nobody talked to us, so we are not going back. Go HOYAS!!!
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Oct 13, 2005 0:45:41 GMT -5
Ladies and gentlemen, the Georgetown Voice... www.georgetownvoice.com/media/paper246/news/2005/10/13/Sports/Rah-Rah.Huh-1019335.shtml?mkey=92441...right on time or 24 hours too late depending on your perspective And just for the heck of it, "Quotes from the Georgetown Voice that will Edited off DFW, Part 23,498": "Furthermore, it seems as though, in the first part of the song, at least, the sport of focus is football. Georgetown football sucks, always has sucked and always will suck. We are not a school known for our football team. To be perfectly honest, the only thing that generally makes those games even remotely interesting is the Georgetown Band."
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