kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jun 12, 2007 7:40:30 GMT -5
I feel safe saying that 98% of the people I know well have cable. I can't get on board with your anti-coastal bias here DFW....so much of the media lives on the coasts- where EVERYONE has cable and just about everyone has HBO.....so what? Is this an elitist conspiracy? OK, so there are tens of millions of people who don't have HBO and therefore have not seen any of the best 3 or 4 television shows made on any channel in the last 10 years....I guess they are either not watching tv at all (not likely) or they are just watching very bad tv. At any rate, what's the point? That the coastal entertainment media should stop talking about the Sopranos because lots of people don't watch it? I agree - what's the point? I love the show and I grew up in flyover country and lived in Montana and now Salt Lake City - not key Sopranos markets. It's still a great show and worthy of discussion. Why trot out the East Coast/West Coast bias thing again?
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Jun 12, 2007 9:06:13 GMT -5
Its as clear to me as day now....Nobody at Holstens knows who Tony even is- we are meant to be as paranoid as Tony about who they might be, but they are in fact nobodies....the fade to black is the audience getting whacked. The show has been killed off, we are the ones who don't hear a thing and who go black, not Tony.
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hoya01
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Post by hoya01 on Jun 12, 2007 10:08:16 GMT -5
Has anyone heard if they taped multiple endings in order to keep the finale from leaking?
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Jun 12, 2007 10:45:05 GMT -5
Has anyone heard if they taped multiple endings in order to keep the finale from leaking? I've heard this--and it's a joke because someone on the site "TheChaseLounge.Net" posted the EXACT details of the final on June 7th--so Chase got played if he thought he was not going to let things get out--and out of all of the spoilers and talk--it was the worst ending by far. The person who shared the spoiler even mentioned how his "advanced tape" went blank and he was anxious to see how it ends--because he'd heard a few scenarios to the ending--but he was on point with everything else. As for the "drama" of Tony looking everytime the door opened and someone walked in? Why wouldn't you look up when you are scheduled to meet your family/friends at a restaurant? Isn't that a normal reaction? Didn't find that suspenseful at all--it's a normal reaction--someone opens door-you look to see if it's people you are meeting and it's not like he was looking at people and reaching for a gun everytime the door opened. To me it's LAZY of Chase to end it without a definitive ending. It's not the viewer's job to tie up loose ends--in a SERIES finale--that is the job of the writer/creator and for those saying it's brilliant-how about the fact that a viewer could've made up their own conclusion of the series after watching the initial episode--and not wasted time watching. That is why I take it as a big "BLEEP YOU" to fans--it's an insult and lazy writing. Basically says that Chase had no clue how to end it, where he wanted to go, and he lied when he said he knew how he'd end it after Season 3. He's full of it--and it's a copout way to end something that is of realistic material--and doesn't end well--you either get killed, go to prison, or rat out your associates and go into witness protection program. Too many "artists" get bailed out by critics and fans for being "genius". Genius isn't about leaving things open ended--if it's that easy--then why don't we all fail to finish tasks or stories we tell and label ourselves geniuses.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Jun 12, 2007 11:40:17 GMT -5
I don't understand this general entitlement to have things wrapped up by longtime fans of the show who ought to know better. This has ALWAYS been the M/O of this show, you should have figured out years ago that they don't resolve everything or even most things and abandoned the show then if you didn't like this fresh take, as oppossed to holding out that Chase was going to radically depart from his style at the 85th hour. I didn't find the final scene a cop out at all, I found it tremendously powerful "this is what its like to be Tony" excercise that was more entertaining than any whacking could have been.
I found the rest of the episode lacking however.
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HoyaFanNY
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Jun 12, 2007 12:34:00 GMT -5
look at the lyrics of 'don't stop believin'
'Oh, the movie never ends It goes on and on and on and on'
and that is what the show does. tony soprano's life goes on, only we are not a part of it anymore. those who 'have to have some sort of closure' just don't get it. it would have been an insult to the greatness of this show to have it end with some random hood knocking tony off or tony going to jail 2 minutes after carlo flipped.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Jun 12, 2007 12:44:03 GMT -5
Disagree Bin, the attraction to the show was seeing a Mob Boss balance both of his families--he was a mobster but he had the same problems at home that a lot of people have--he goes to see a Therapist for his problems, etc....that was attraction and what drew many into the show--not just blood and guts, but also this supposed theory that Chase never resolves things--did he not resolve the NY-NJ "war" with Phil getting clipped? He resolved many of the issues with Tony's antagonists--be it Richie Aprile, Ralph, Johnny Sack, and all that I wanted to see as a viewer is how his decision to choose which family he'd be committed to came down--Tony didn't have to get shot or have a shootout to end the show--but nothing was resolved--does he turn to Feds, does he get put in Prison, why was Patsy talking to Feds at end of Season 6A but now it's Carlo who is a rat, and Patsy is going to be Father in Law to Tony's daughter? After reading the interview with Chase, I'm even more convinced the guy had no clue how to end his own show/creation and that is lazy. You think it's genius--enjoy, I just enjoy some sort of resolution to a story/series that I've watched and while I understand not everything wraps up cleanly in life, you don't have resolution in a finale to a show? You owe that to viewers and it doesn't have to be happy or how the viewer wants it--but something must be resolved in a way that rewards those who allowed Chase to share his story. If you leave it as "You decide"--what talent does that take as a writer? Each their own but I just think this show lost it's place the entire Seasons of 6A and 6B. Just silly changes in people who don't change--Mobsters dont' change their personality--they embrace what they are--and for a slimeball like Butch to accept Tony's reaching out at the time NY was wiping New Jersey out--just silly. AJ takes center stage and why would his parents have any reason to believe he'd commit himself to a patriotic cause when he can't commit himself to do anything? Tony Soprano was a fun character to watch--due to his problems and his affiliation with Mafia--but then it turned into a 1960's-1970's love-in and mind altering drugs being glorified as helping Tony "find his calling". Mobsters know their role in life--and they don't find a calling unless it's at one end of a gun or another--you either kill or get killed--go to jail or rat on others, there is no deep meaning to shallow, self centered people and what made the show interesting was you knew this but wanted to see how it would turn out--and instead you get a Boss eating onion rings with his family and waiting for his daughter who can't park a car? I don't see how wanting more from an ending is seen as "missing point of show" when there was no end--it was just more drawn out, off topic crap we all had seen the past season. From Cleaver, to Kevin Finnerty, to the Desert Peyote thing--Chase needs to quit dropping acid and realize he went from telling a great story to trying to be an artist--when you have to try you are NOT one.
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HoyaNyr320
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Post by HoyaNyr320 on Jun 12, 2007 13:07:30 GMT -5
After reading the interview with Chase, I'm even more convinced the guy had no clue how to end his own show/creation and that is lazy. You think it's genius--enjoy, I just enjoy some sort of resolution to a story/series that I've watched and while I understand not everything wraps up cleanly in life, you don't have resolution in a finale to a show? You owe that to viewers and it doesn't have to be happy or how the viewer wants it--but something must be resolved in a way that rewards those who allowed Chase to share his story. If you leave it as "You decide"--what talent does that take as a writer? I agree with you RDF. I wanted the series to end with Tony eating sandwiches and cookies with his cell mate in the A-Block of Sing-Sing prison. I've toured the prison there and I know they make mean sandwiches. I think they give out juice boxes too at lunch time. I can't think of a better way to end a series than with sandwiches and cookies for all.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Jun 12, 2007 13:16:19 GMT -5
Disagree Bin, the attraction to the show was seeing a Mob Boss balance both of his families--he was a mobster but he had the same problems at home that a lot of people have--he goes to see a Therapist for his problems, etc Mobsters dont' change their personality--they embrace what they are--and for a slimeball like Butch to accept Tony's reaching out at the time NY was wiping New Jersey out--just silly... Mobsters know their role in life--and they don't find a calling unless it's at one end of a gun or another--you either kill or get killed--go to jail or rat on others, there is no deep meaning to shallow, self centered people and what made the show interesting was you knew this but wanted to see how it would turn out... In the first point quoted, you are saying that mobsters are complex people with many of the problems that 'regular' people have. In the next 2, you sound like you read too many Hollywood gangster film screenplays. Don't you think those last points are a bit one-dimensional, in addition to being overly dramatic and typecast? I think your first point is much closer to how Chase portrayed Tony Soprano.
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HoyaFanNY
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Jun 12, 2007 13:51:49 GMT -5
phil created the ny-nj war. the other ny families were not involved. that is why they brokered the meeting with tony and butchie. phil went away from the other ny families ordering the hit on tony, sil, and bobby, and he paid for it. stop crying about resolution. paulie got bumped up...resolution. janice is now a single mom and must find a way to make ends meet...resolution. silvio is in a coma....resolution. junior has lost his marbles...resolution. aj has a job...resolution. meadow is getting married...resolution. phil is dead...resolution. carm has a new house to remodel....resolution. carlo flipped...resolution. and the soprano crime family lives on.....RESOLUTION. it wasn't a cop out by chase, it was his way to end the show. the show ends but the soprano family story doesn't.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Jun 12, 2007 15:09:02 GMT -5
Several people have come at me with "well Chase resolved this and that, so why not Tony?" This question makes no sense to me. Its not that Chase would never resolve ANYTHING, its just that he refuses to resolve EVERYTHING. Just like life, some things come to completion, others just fade away when the audience goes black and hears nothing coming because they have been clipped.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jun 12, 2007 15:17:53 GMT -5
look at the lyrics of 'don't stop believin' 'Oh, the movie never ends It goes on and on and on and on' and that is what the show does. tony soprano's life goes on, only we are not a part of it anymore. those who 'have to have some sort of closure' just don't get it. it would have been an insult to the greatness of this show to have it end with some random hood knocking tony off or tony going to jail 2 minutes after carlo flipped. watching it again last night there's a lot of lyrics in the song that match up with what's going on in the scene "Just a small town girl, livin in a lonely world" when Carmela walks in... "Just a city boy" when they go back to Tony... "Strangers waiting, up and down the boulevard" when that Members Only guy comes in ahead of AJ...
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Jun 12, 2007 15:19:03 GMT -5
By the way, I don't think this is as open ended and "you decide" as some people say. I do NOT think Tony was about to be killed, or we have reason to think so after watching the ending 3 or 4 times. We were meant to feel what its like to be Tony for 3 or 4 minutes and boy did we. Upon re-watching, we realize we were just being paranoid, nobody is coming to shoot him that day. The indictment is coming, but not with the onion rings. Life goes on, in mob boss style, with a little too much excitement sometimes.
THat's it. Not you decide....indictments are coming, the mob war has been nipped in the bud, the family members continue on their paths, complete with currently unknown but certain setbacks to be sure. Just like life. Will Tony beat the indictment? Don't know- in Chase's world, things don't stop moving for anyone, not even the audience- the end is not really THE end- not for Tony, its just our end- because WE were the ones who got whacked.
Its a fresh take, has been for 9 years, and the ending was no different.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jun 12, 2007 15:21:25 GMT -5
You have to put those numbers in perspective: NEW YORK (AP) - The 11.9 million viewers who watched "The Sopranos" finale brought HBO to the edge of a historic feat: a show on a pay cable network available in about 30 million homes was more popular last week than all but one show on the far larger world of broadcast television.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Jun 12, 2007 15:40:58 GMT -5
You have to put those numbers in perspective: NEW YORK (AP) - The 11.9 million viewers who watched "The Sopranos" finale brought HBO to the edge of a historic feat: a show on a pay cable network available in about 30 million homes was more popular last week than all but one show on the far larger world of broadcast television. Good point. On the radio, I heard the TV critic for the Philadelphia Inquirer say that in all of his years covering TV he has never seen anything near the kind of response / attention the Sopranos' finale has received.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jun 13, 2007 3:51:36 GMT -5
Has anyone heard if they taped multiple endings in order to keep the finale from leaking? Yes. My sister's friend's cousin's uncle's ex-wife was at 32 Flavors and overheard the whole story. Just kidding. Actually, the real answer is also yes. In this case, I do have it on excellent authority from an inside source that there were 4 separate endings shot so that no one, not even the cast, would know what the real ending would be up until a couple days before it aired. Here's a few things to consider: Will the boxed set of DVDs of this last season include the alternate endings? (you can bet your sweet DVD sales they will). Did Chase want to leave open the possibility of the movie? Absolutely. Did he not know how to end it... so he just stopped? make your own guess. And finally, there was an old TV series called The Fugitive, with David Jansen. Later, it became a movie with Harrison Ford and Tommy Lee Jones (coincidentally, the movie also had Joe Pantoliano -- who later played "Ralphie" on the Sorpranos... until he got wacked, then dismembered in a bathtub by Tony and Chrissy) At any rate, the Fugitive was always looking for the one-armed man who was the real killer of his wife. The final episode of the TV show??? The Fugitive, Dr. Richard Kimble, finds the one-armed man, proves his own innocence, and lives happily ever after. The last episode was a HUGE ratings hit. The problem? After the show was resolved, it absolutely KILLED the syndication market. No one wanted to watch re-runs because the suspense had been eliminated. That was the last time a series was resolved when it ended. I have no idea how much Chase and co. are earning from the re-runs of Sopranos on A&E these days, but it is a LOT!
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jun 13, 2007 3:57:02 GMT -5
One small aspect of the last episode that does NOT have to do with the ending has not gotten much play. THe FBI guy who helps Tony.
He is having an affair with a very pretty sister-agent and after sleeping with her, gets her to reveal the approximate whereabouts of Phil. While she is in the bathroom doing her post coital primping, he calls Tony to give him the info. She must have heard him because she comes out of the bathroom Editeded!
Later, while in his office, a fellow FBI guy enters and shares the news that Phil just got wacked. The FBI guy replies in a very excited voice, "We're gonna win!" His "family", The Sopranos, are going to win the internecine mob war.
OK, not a Huge part of the show, but I got a kick out of it.
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HoyaFanNY
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Jun 13, 2007 5:44:09 GMT -5
the interaction between paulie and the cat was hilarious.
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SaxaCD
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Post by SaxaCD on Jun 13, 2007 6:21:02 GMT -5
By the way, I don't think this is as open ended and "you decide" as some people say. I do NOT think Tony was about to be killed, or we have reason to think so after watching the ending 3 or 4 times. We were meant to feel what its like to be Tony for 3 or 4 minutes and boy did we. Upon re-watching, we realize we were just being paranoid, nobody is coming to shoot him that day. The indictment is coming, but not with the onion rings. Life goes on, in mob boss style, with a little too much excitement sometimes. THat's it. Not you decide....indictments are coming, the mob war has been nipped in the bud, the family members continue on their paths, complete with currently unknown but certain setbacks to be sure. Just like life. Will Tony beat the indictment? Don't know- in Chase's world, things don't stop moving for anyone, not even the audience- the end is not really THE end- not for Tony, its just our end- because WE were the ones who got whacked. Its a fresh take, has been for 9 years, and the ending was no different. I agree -- I sort of have the same feelings about the people complaining about the Sopranos finale as I do about the people who complained so loud to the network about wanting to find out Laura Palmer's killer that David Lynch was pretty much forced to ruin the best show on television at the time, Twin Peaks. Or the people who hated the Seinfeld finale. For some reason, people will watch a cutting-edge show, and then demand a Hollywood-type Disneyfied conclusion. I don't even know how that many people who don't understand the shows to begin with can enjoy it the previous weeks, unless a neighbor told them it was good, so they felt compelled to watch and become a "fan".
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jun 14, 2007 7:18:47 GMT -5
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