hoyaLS05
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Post by hoyaLS05 on Sept 26, 2007 1:52:21 GMT -5
Last Thursday, a number of Georgetown students, most of whom were African-Americans, united in support of the Jena Six. The HOYA covered it as a brief: www.thehoya.com/news/092107/news9.cfmUpset that the story did not receive more attention, two students wrote letters (http://www.thehoya.com/viewpoint/092507/view8.cfm and www.thehoya.com/viewpoint/092507/view7.cfm) and one wrote a viewpoint (http://www.thehoya.com/viewpoint/092507/view6.cfm). Pierce Nixon, a HOYA columnist also weighed in (http://www.thehoya.com/viewpoint/092507/view3.cfm), arguing that the issue has become too polarizing, while saying in the process, "Anyone who takes a position on issues of race presupposes that there is a qualitative difference between the actions, beliefs and values of people from groups of different colors. That’s dumb." It sounds as though some students, both African-American and not, remain extremely upset about the HOYA's treatment of Jena Six, and are even more enraged about Nixon's column. Thoughts?
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Sept 26, 2007 6:50:47 GMT -5
For Niara Phillips to write "Where is THE HOYA’s coverage of this national issue of injustice?" speaks to a central tenet of The HOYA: to focus on covering campus news, not national news. Maybe this rally, attended by 40 students, will receive more attention in the Voice or Independent where the focus of coverage is, by design, different.
Also, please distingish the issue of news from opinion. Pierce Nixon is writing as a columnist separate and apart from what is on the news page.
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Post by strummer8526 on Sept 26, 2007 7:22:14 GMT -5
Having not yet read the links, I just want to lay out my existing biases and opinions:
Pierce is a great guy, a good writer, and very devoted to a lot of good things at Georgetown. I'll get to is column after I read it, but no matter what I see, I'm certain that it was intended to improve the conversation or unify parts of the community, not the opposite.
As far as race issues go at Georgetown, I personally can't stand it. I was a member of several of the major "Georgetown"-type groups. When you look at campus, you see the major groups: GERMS, Hoya Blue, the Hoya, Dems/Republicans, SCC, Groove Theory, Chimes, Corp, etc. etc. During my time in leadership positions with some of these groups, the organizations themselves and I personally came under attack for essentially being racist. There are constantly complaints that several of the most "Georgetown" institutions are "exclusive." They "alienate" the minority population at the school. There's some kind of rift or divide that leads to an us/them mentality.
My problem is that the us/them mentality on campus is EXCLUSIVELY held on the minority students' side. For one of these groups, we put out apps for specific positions. Receiving 45 apps, we accepted 45 people. The group was accused of not providing a representative sample of Georgetown because there were very few minority students. At that point, I decided that I just don't understand what anyone can do for people who are encouraged to apply, given access to applications, and then choose not to become a part of the organization. Should leaders of major campus organizations go to BSA or SAS meetings and give unique appeals to those members of the student body? To me, that seems racist, and it seems like pandering. "Hey guys. We really want some of YOU." To me, the open processes that every student group uses in selection of its members is already welcoming of minority students. Many simply choose to focus their efforts towards organizations that are focused on their specific ethnicity/race rather than on those groups that are universally "Georgetown." I've always accepted that that's their prerogative, but to then turn around and call the universally Georgetown groups "racist" seems insane. (In this case, where was a black editor or writer for the Hoya to draw greater attention to something that he had a greater knowledge of, interest in, access to, etc.? From my time at the Hoya, I can tell you: he never applied or ever showed interest in student media. The only interest emerges when something the Hoya writes can be construes as racist.)
It wasn't until last year that I found out Georgetown has a Minority Student Orientation, presumably some kind of supplement to everyone's NSO. Again, I respect the rights of any group to meet, organize, share unique and common bonds/experiences, etc. But in my opinion this sort of approach, when dealing with students who have JUST stepped on campus, only serves to tell minority students that they're different, that they do different things, and that there are campus organizations just for "them." Meanwhile, the Hoya, GERMS, the Corp, and Hoya Blue are out looking for anyone, regardless of race or background. I think that this is where a serious racial divide on campus begins, and by the end of senior year, it leaves the minority students feeling as though they've been somehow systematically excluded and white students in leadership roles (such as Pierce) trying to defend institutions that never did anything the slightest bit exclusive of minority students.
After having the third of my major Georgetown commitments called racist last year (this one based on a flag football game), I spent a long time thinking about this issue at Georgetown, and these are my two cents, hopefully written in a thoughtful, honest, and unoffensive way. Now I'll get to reading the specifics from the Hoya.
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Post by mrsparkle12 on Sept 26, 2007 9:18:47 GMT -5
From Hammad Hammad's letter www.thehoya.com/viewpoint/092507/view7.cfm"What's worse is that the news blurb about Ramadan was combined with a description of Jewish student celebrations of the Rosh Hashanah holiday. To combine the story of two different religious traditions and the celebrations of hundreds of students is the equivalent of cheapening each... These are different religions and different cultural traditions. It’s a shame the newspaper cannot distinguish between both." I don't care for this comment. For the same reason that Georgetown welcomes other religious symbols/festivals on its Catholic university campus, I don't see why an article can't combine elements from both celebrations into one article. Sort of a "Happy Holidays" notion instead of a "Merry Christmas" sentiment. Hammad's comment seems more inappropriate than The Hoya's original coverage.
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bubbrubbhoya
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Post by bubbrubbhoya on Sept 26, 2007 9:50:14 GMT -5
For me, the biggest question raised by that letter was whether Mr. Hammad has two first names or two last names. It's still unclear to me.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Sept 26, 2007 15:48:24 GMT -5
i defeintly agree with what's been said on the board. as for nixon's article. yeah i can see how it can easily be misconstrued as racist. I don't know the kid but the article came of kind of pretentious. It constantly came off as " look how clever i'm being" Yes in ideal world we wouldn't look at race as a factor at all. But currently it is, so it can't just be thrown out the door. I think he was saying something along the lines of what you said strummer and i agree with that. People shouldn't inject race into everything and seperate races shouldn't be treated differently. but you can't remove race when it clearly is a factor like in the jena six case. I think the main problem with the article is he was trying to be to clever and failed and ended up looking like a jerk.
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hoyaLS05
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Post by hoyaLS05 on Sept 26, 2007 20:57:26 GMT -5
Someone wrote THE HOYA IS RACIST in chalk in Red Square today; another wrote the same thing on every copy of THE HOYA in Reynolds.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Sept 26, 2007 21:53:42 GMT -5
A long standing pet peeve of mine is that people overuse the term racist and use it in situations where it simply does not apply.
Here are three words which get lumped together (definitions per Wikipedia):
Prejudice: Interpersonal hostility that is directed against individuals based on their membership in a minority group.
Bigotry: Intolerance of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own.
Racism: A belief where members of one race are intrinsically superior or inferior to members of other "races."
The HOYA is not guilty of any of these three terms (though no one gets publicity by yelling "Prejudice! Prejudice!").
Distinguishing statements of racial or ethnic prejudice versus abject bigotry versus true racist views should be standard coursework for the national media but they have all but abandoned it. As such, the word "racism" is a form of cheap heat which sheds zero light on real issues.
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Post by strummer8526 on Sept 26, 2007 22:09:56 GMT -5
Yeah this whole thing seems to be getting bigger. This race issue has been building at Georgetown for a long time, and if this is what it takes to get it out there, then so be it. There's a segment of Georgetown's minority population that refuses to accept that all Georgetown groups I've ever encountered are as inclusive as they know how to be. Some people prefer to remain on the margins in very self-segregated organizations until something like the Jena rally gets under-reported by the Hoya, and suddenly they're up in arms about the coverage the Hoya gives. Where was this passion for responsible campus journalism last week? Instead of writing 200 letters after a mistake like this, why not be a part of the organization in the first place to make sure these problems don't emerge to begin with?
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tal1286
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Post by tal1286 on Sept 27, 2007 11:04:30 GMT -5
I don't want to hijack this thread but I have a legitimate question that seems gets lost in the sensationalism brought about mostly by Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton...
The Jena 6 committed a felony. That case seems pretty much open and shut. They are lucky it wasn't murder. Why is prosecuting them wrong? Why is prosecuting the one who had priors, and should be tried as an adult, as such wrong? I really wonder these things. When did prosecuting people who assaulted and nearly murdered somebody become an issue of race, and wouldn't the same attack be sensationalized as a hate crime if it had been the other way around?
I seriously want answers to these questions. Can somebody enlighten me?
As for the other comments ... Strummer, you've nicely summed up the way I feel, so I'm just going to leave it at that.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Sept 27, 2007 11:21:48 GMT -5
From what i understand the qualm is that they're not being held to the same standard of past cases of simillar events. For instance a black kid was beat up a little while before at a white party and there was no punishment at all. and I'm jsut assuming that passt cases were charged as assault where the jena 6 were immediately charged with attempted murder. That's the sense i get, that the DA levied heavier charges agaisnt these six black students than what had been levied in the past for similar crimes. I beleive that's people's problem's but i'm not positive.
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Sept 27, 2007 13:14:09 GMT -5
There's also the incident where a white kid pulled a shotgun on a group of black kids. The black kids were able to wrestle the gun away, and were promptly charged with firearm theft. The white kid got nothing.
I think "Free the Jena 6" is just a rallying cry; the real demand is that there be some parity between the sentences for all kids involved, both white and black, rather than the white kids getting off easy and the black kids being charged with attempted murder.
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bubbrubbhoya
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Post by bubbrubbhoya on Sept 27, 2007 13:54:44 GMT -5
There's also the incident where a white kid pulled a shotgun on a group of black kids. The black kids were able to wrestle the gun away, and were promptly charged with firearm theft. The white kid got nothing. I think "Free the Jena 6" is just a rallying cry; the real demand is that there be some parity between the sentences for all kids involved, both white and black, rather than the white kids getting off easy and the black kids being charged with attempted murder. I think that clarifying that this is the focus would allow the Jena 6 campaign to gain much more traction nationwide and across racial barriers. At the moment, a lot of people are not sympathetic to the protests because people don't like to endorse letting people off for their crimes. If "Free the Jena 6" was replaced by "Equal Justice for the Jena 6," perhaps, then people would get behind the campaign.
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Post by strummer8526 on Sept 27, 2007 14:57:38 GMT -5
Definitely agree. This town made a lot of mistakes in its treatment of everyone involved. It's a very unfair situation, and it's unfortunate that miscommunication over it is spilling into Red Square and Leavey.
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Post by bridget311 on Sept 28, 2007 4:11:48 GMT -5
Bando- couldn't have said it better myself. And although I really don't like Al Sharpton, he sums the issue up nicely: "Let America know -- we are not fighting for the right to fight in school. We're not fighting for the right for kids to beat each other. We're fighting to say that there must be one level of justice for everybody. And you cannot have adult attempted murder for some, and a fine for others, and call that equal protection under the law. Two wrongs don't make one civil right." www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/09/27/jena.six/index.html?iref=newssearchAnd tal- the Jena 6 did not "nearly murder" somebody. From what I've heard and doing a little research now, the boy received a concussion and was in the hospital for a few hours, and even went to some "social gathering" of some sort that night. I've just looked up a few articles, and this espn one seems to have a pretty good account of what has happened. sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=3030458It was a schoolyard fight, and it was bloody, but I went to public school and witnessed worse. (One frosh spent 3 days in the hospital and his pool of blood left behind wasn't easy to get rid of.) Not that I am excusing any violence, just that Barker was not nearing death. There's also a larger issue here concerning the way race is perceived by the different races. While I completely see your point and often wonder about the self segregation, strummer, you also need to take a step back and look at it from the other side. I'm white, and I never felt race problems existed in my high school. And yet my black cousins who attended a nearby high school, one that was very similar in make up to mine, couldn't walk down a hallway alone without being attacked by the local latino gang. When the black students started walking together through the halls in groups of 4 or 5, the white student dean stepped in and accused THEM of gang activity, and essentially told my cousins no more than 3 black students could loiter/walk together. I am not sure if this is the best example, but I am just trying to prove that living in the US as a minority is a very different experience than the one most of us have had. And many minorities have experienced some form of racism before they get to georgetown, so it makes sense to want to hang out and join groups of people that have had the same experiences as you and won't put you through those awful and humiliating incidents, kind of like a subconcious safe-haven. Sorry for being long-winded, but I can offer another, non-race example. (Hope you guys like knowing my whole life story by the end of this.) I receive a ton of financial aid and my family definitely belongs to the working class. And when I look at my friends here at GU, none of them belong to the upper class, despite the high number of upper class students at gtown. This is a less obvious example of self-segregation, but it exists. Simply put, it is hard for me to relate to people with gobs of money because I can't always go out to eat at the places they do or shop at the expensive boutiques on M st. There are basic connections I cannot make with them because I cannot share in the same life experience. I'm not being a sob story, but I think you're a little too accusatory when talking about self segregation. Think about your friends from college, chances are most are like you when it comes to race, class, status. It's your comfort zone. We all do it. All of this is not say that self segregation is perfectly acceptable and groups are allowed to step in when it's convenient to accuse other groups or racism or sexism, whatever, but we are viewing the issue from two completely different angles. For someone who has had to deal with race issues their entire life, they will of course be hypersensitive to remarks that might be construed as racist. It's like how the crazy gtown basketball fans will freak out over the smallest comment Greg Monroe said about another program, and how does that relate to GU, and he clearly isn't showing interest in us anymore or maybe he's just leading the other schools on but really loves us.....while people not as in tune with bball with just take the comment at face value. (And that example is by no means downplaying the seriousness of race issues in our country, just trying to give a scenario we all understand.) I'm not sure if I made any semblance of an arguement here, but I didn't really want to, i just want everyone to use a different paradigm for a moment or two. The whole point is that you have to cut some slack. As a white person, I can't even begin to understand what it feels like to be a minority, to constantly feel like I'm fighting a battle that I was born into, didn't choose and which often seems like a losing one.
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Post by hoya3416 on Sept 28, 2007 11:29:49 GMT -5
It's absolutely ludicrous to be labeling The Hoya as racist. For what transgression? (1) Possibly under-reporting a story about a rally for the Jena 6 and (2) allowing a student to write that he was afraid to write about race/Jena because he would be labeled a racist if his beliefs didn't conform to the politically correct view (he proceeded to write about race, and was labeled a racist, proving his point).
Today there are a series of letters responding to Pierce Nixon's viewpoint, including those who would like to have had his viewpoint censored.
The problem here isn't The Hoya, though, as happens from time to time, it will be easier to attack the messenger than to engage the message. The real issue is that it seems most Georgetown students don't care about the Jena 6 protest, but they do care about their alcohol policies (and the idiotic defense of those alcohol "rights" were derided in a Hoya editorial last week). The Hoya's coverage reflected the campus' priorities. It's much easier to get mad at The Hoya, and use the R-word, about the apathy towards the Jena 6, and the simmering racial tension on campus. And it's perfectly OK to debate news priorities -- as a former editor, it's something I think the newspaper would welcome. But when you accuse the newspaper of having an intentional bias -- and start playing the name-calling game -- there's no way to have a constructive debate.
And it's especially cowardly to call for the censorship of controversial ideas that Pierce brought up. Nothing he said was truly racist. He said that he was afraid of talking about race because if you don't say the right thing, your critics can easily slap you with the racist label. Like a good columnist, Pierce has sparked a long overdue dialogue about race, about the priorities of the campus media, and those are important matters worth debating. But you can't debate them if people are going to be labeled racists for doing so -- that was exactly, it seems, his argument to begin with.
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Oct 1, 2007 18:20:39 GMT -5
100%, DFW. A long standing pet peeve of mine is that people overuse the term racist and use it in situations where it simply does not apply. Here are three words which get lumped together (definitions per Wikipedia): Prejudice: Interpersonal hostility that is directed against individuals based on their membership in a minority group. Bigotry: Intolerance of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own. Racism: A belief where members of one race are intrinsically superior or inferior to members of other "races." The HOYA is not guilty of any of these three terms (though no one gets publicity by yelling "Prejudice! Prejudice!"). Distinguishing statements of racial or ethnic prejudice versus abject bigotry versus true racist views should be standard coursework for the national media but they have all but abandoned it. As such, the word "racism" is a form of cheap heat which sheds zero light on real issues.
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tal1286
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Post by tal1286 on Oct 8, 2007 9:13:51 GMT -5
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Post by strummer8526 on Oct 8, 2007 9:44:48 GMT -5
That's a really great find, tal. It always seemed like there were discrepancies in the news stories. I guess when something gets discussed in such generalities, details get left out...like that they've combined 3 Justins into 1 kid. I hope it's accurate, or at least that WHATEVER the real story is eventually gets out.
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tal1286
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Post by tal1286 on Oct 8, 2007 15:25:37 GMT -5
And tal- the Jena 6 did not "nearly murder" somebody. From what I've heard and doing a little research now, the boy received a concussion and was in the hospital for a few hours, and even went to some "social gathering" of some sort that night. I've just looked up a few articles, and this espn one seems to have a pretty good account of what has happened. sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=3030458It was a schoolyard fight, and it was bloody, but I went to public school and witnessed worse. (One frosh spent 3 days in the hospital and his pool of blood left behind wasn't easy to get rid of.) Not that I am excusing any violence, just that Barker was not nearing death. You really should read the article I linked to. If you still believe that his injuries weren't that bad and the reason he left the hospital is that his injuries weren't severe. If you still believe that this so called "social gathering" as the media is so quick to call it was some sort of random party, you need to read the article. The mass media has painted a picture of the case that is so different from what actually happened that it's kinda ridiculous.
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