Harvard drops Early Admissions

[SoCalHoya]

Though our Early Action numbers were not too different than our normal pool, I wonder if we will follow suit. This is a giant leap for Harvard, and I hope our other peer schools move in this direction as well.

www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/09/12/harvard.admissions.ap/index.html

[LizziebethHoya]

I understand why they are doing this, but Early Action is what made my senior year of high school so amazing.

[TBird41]

nyhoya08 said:

I understand why they are doing this, but Early Action is what made my senior year of high school so amazing.

Ditto. My senior slide started the second I heard from Gtown in November. It was glorious

[Jack]

nyhoya08 said:

I understand why they are doing this, but Early Action is what made my senior year of high school so amazing.

And that, in a nutshell, is why it is extremely unlikely Georgetown will drop it's EA program. EA was designed to take a little pressure off of the admissions system several decades ago, giving top students assurance early in the process and allowing them to make fewer applications. It has become perverted by schools using it strategically to force kids to apply early decision to have their best chance of admission.

Harvard's heart is in the right place- this is an admission that their previous EA policy was unfair, something they have steadfastly denied for many years. If they were willing to limit their EA acceptances to their true admit rate and not give any tips at early to legacies, athletes, etc., as Georgetown does, then they could achieve many of the same goals without throwing the entire system into chaos.

Instead, they felt pressure to make a sweeping gesture like this, probably in response to the recent book that focuses on their surreptitious favoritism of children of elite alumni (The Price of Admission, by Daniel Golden of the WSJ). Now they will put more pressure on the system rather than less, as there will be even less certainty and even more top students proliferating multiple applications because they did not have an early option.

[Nevada Hoya]

Speaking of elite applicants, there was a story in the WSJ yesterday about how Duke and Brown cater to the celebrity crowd, even lowering standards if that will insure a nice contribution from mommy or daddy.

[sweetness]

Are we mentioned in this book? I read how Duke gets skewered.

[Jack]

sweetness said:

Are we mentioned in this book? I read how Duke gets skewered.

GU gets a few cursory mentions, but escapes largely unscathed. The book focuses on Duke, Harvard, Brown and ND, which is too bad for them, because they are probably not much more egregious in their behavior than virtually every other top tier school. The book also seems to be pretty unfair, naming names of kids who received advantages and failing to recognize the importance of the philanthropy provided by wealthy donors in allowing these schools to seek and fund students from the lowest socio-economic strata.

[reformation]

I thought the "The Price of Admission" was right on the money: I don't think it would have been as effective, if it had not named the names. GU's favorite nemesis Duke was absolutely skewered by the book. I'd be willing to bet that the timing of Harvard's announcement, at least, was partly a response to the book coming out last week.

I think what was "news" in the book was the prevalence of the favoritism to the rich and other less than fully meritorious constituencies rather than the fact that preferences are given. I obviously realize this is a fact of life; however, I think the universities are fair game for hard hitting criticism on this issue because elite universities generally adopt a somewhat holier than thou moral tone on a lot of social issues, plus go out of their way to maintain how meritocratic and socially conscious their own univ's are as well.

Mentions of GU were relatively few and basically boiled down to one bogus admit of a Bush relative, several instances where strong students without special ties to thier first choice Ivy were rejected and ended up at Gtwn, and a lame statement by GU's men's golf coach. (we basically came out ok--though I suspect that Dan Goldin could have dug up similar dirt at most top univ's, but went after the ones that would get the most popular interest)

[SoCalHoya]

Well, unlike Harvard, GU has been pretty fair to both groups (EA and Regular). Statistically, you don't have that much of an edge at GU doing EA, and many would say there is no edge at all when you take into account the credentials of the EA applicants (generally stronger). Anyhow, that's a roundabout way of saying we don't have to pull a Harvard here, we don't have as many skeletons in our closet. After all, Harvard's Early DECISION program was the biggest target out there since it essentially eroded the applicant's choice and any chance at bargaining for a fair financial aid package (if any). Let's hope this change helps GU in the end!

[EDIT: Yes, that is true, after some pressure, Harvard finally killed its ED program a few years ago.]

[Jack]

To be fair, Harvard does not currently have Early Decision, it merely has single choice Early Action, which does not prevent students from applying to other schools at Regular Decision, even if they are admitted early to Harvard. Of course Harvard can do that because they get such an amazing yield anyway, they know they will lose very few students by allowing them to make other applications, but they are far from the worst users of ED/EA to game their admissions numbers (coughpenncough).

[hoya4ever]

Jack, how could Harvard have known that stuents applied to other schools' Early Action? Is there some kind of list that students are put on? Or, are they just operating on the honor code principle?

[LizziebethHoya]

Its on the honor code.

Its like Gtown says you cant apply here EA if you apply ED somewhere else.

But, i guess if they find out, they have all right to revoke your acceptance

[Jack]

hoya4ever said:

Jack, how could Harvard have known that stuents applied to other schools' Early Action? Is there some kind of list that students are put on? Or, are they just operating on the honor code principle?

It's on your honor, but these things have a way of coming back to bite you. Either a counselor or an interviewer or a jealous classmate will out you and you risk losing your acceptance, maybe at both schools depending on their policies.

[SoCalHoya]

From what I've heard, the "bite" is nearly gone. Folks realize you can't have minors sign away their lives like this. It is unethical, and often not legal.

[JimmyHoya]

So was it bad of me to apply EA to 4 different schools, including G'town?

I really wanted to go to school here, but I didn't mind the others, was encouraged to apply if the app's were done and saw no point in not sending them in.

[Jack]

jimmyhoya said:

So was it bad of me to apply EA to 4 different schools, including G'town?

I really wanted to go to school here, but I didn't mind the others, was encouraged to apply if the app's were done and saw no point in not sending them in.

Nope, that's totally legit, at least as far as GU is concerned. Students may make multiple applications to other non-binding early programs- the only requirement is that they not apply to a binding early decision program. Of course if you applied to Harvard, Yale, or Stanford early in addition to GU you violated their policy, but not Georgetown's.

[hoya4ever]

jack said:

jimmyhoya said:

So was it bad of me to apply EA to 4 different schools, including G'town?

I really wanted to go to school here, but I didn't mind the others, was encouraged to apply if the app's were done and saw no point in not sending them in.

Nope, that's totally legit, at least as far as GU is concerned. Students may make multiple applications to other non-binding early programs- the only requirement is that they not apply to a binding early decision program. Of course if you applied to Harvard, Yale, or Stanford early in addition to GU you violated their policy, but not Georgetown's.

Oooops, oh well, it's not like I really liked all of the above...

[JimmyHoya]

Okay.

Now, what if I said I applied to those 4 schools early and couldnt have given a crap if I was accepted. Would you still approve then?

I mean what do you think about all the kids who apply EA at as many places they can because they are a. impatient, b. just want to be done, c. think it will improve their chances, d. have everything but "oh my goodness if i get in early it'll be a dream come true!" on their mind?

....that was what was on my mind for every school not named Georgetown and somehow that doesn't seem entirely ethically proper. Furthermore, my situation seems, to me at least, to be the reason why EA systems are silly for Harvard, Georgetown, etc. to keep in place. It just helps the kids on the borderline who got deferred intially versus the borderline kid who applied later because "he applied early, so he must REALLY want to come while this regular kid--who knows how high we are on his list..."ED is a huge decision. EA just separates the kids who feel like doing apps before Halloween from the kids who want to do them before Christmas.

[LizziebethHoya]

And Princeton just followed suit.....

www.nytimes.com/2006/09/19/education/19admit.html?ref=education

[TigerHoya]

UVA has done the same now:
www.wtopnews.com/?nid=25&sid=923791