|
Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Feb 6, 2006 19:30:12 GMT -5
This is something that has been happening all year but its starting to really make me mad. In the past years Metro police and the University have taken different stands on how to deal with security off campus in Burlieth and East Georgetown on weekend nights (Friday and Saturday) when a lot of students are out between 10pm and 2am. This year's policy has been enfuriating. For example, Metro Police sent 4 cruisers and 1 police van to the Prospect Street side of Village A - which ISN'T EVEN IN THEIR JURISDICTION according to their agreement with DPS and started arresting students for minor in possession, fake ID, and open container violations. I'm not arguing that these aren't crimes. But where were these same officers from the Idaho Street Precinct when two students were robbed 4 blocks up Prospect Street at the same time they were arresting students? The same events repeated themselves on Saturday when Metro officers made another show of force without DPS present. This time two students were robbed in East Georgetown by assailants with semi-automatic weapons. One of the students was shot in the arm. The University has tried to free up Metro to do regular patrols and tried to lessen the burden on these officers in terms of protecting students walking back from parties and M Street by instituting a very smart Safe Rides shuttle, a DPS escort program, and extending the area of DPS partrolls. However, Metro seems to be intent on arresting students and not those who are making students like myself feel insecure when walking off campus on Friday and Saturday nights. This is absolutely rediculous - what is more important - scaring some college kids from out of state with a bunch of squad cars or stopping more serious crimes from happening to the same students leaving the same parties? What is it going to take for Metro to realize that Georgetown students deserve protection when walking back from bars and parties? A fatal shooting? I know the Burlieth and Georgetown ANC would like us to believe that the real issue is the students going to the bars in the first place - but that is the stupidest argument that I have ever heard. The Georgetown Current actually ran an article opposing the Safe Rides program two weeks ago. What more can the University do to protect its students when the neighborhood and Metro are content to see these robberies as being the student's fault or as a statistic?
|
|
|
Post by joehoya07 on Feb 6, 2006 20:36:07 GMT -5
The priorities of Metro and DPS are absolutely ridiculous. However, it's not hard to figure out why they focus on open containers and fake IDs. Rich Georgetown residents (who apparently moved to the neighborhood in 1788) constantly complain about noise and other college related nuisances. Metro is under great pressure from these snobs to do something about the crazy college kids. Maybe when someone is actually murdered by these thugs on Prospect Street, the cops will change their priorities. I would tend to doubt it though.
|
|
|
Post by RockawayHoya on Feb 6, 2006 21:06:50 GMT -5
I'll weigh in.
Having just graduated, I'm well aware of the "priorities" of Metro. What you've described, SPH, has been going on for far longer than a year. Actually, it's been going on as long as I can remember being associated with GU. Metro cops literally feel like they have nothing better to do than to come down hard on some drunken students who might be making a little too much noise for their neighbors' liking. And you're absolutely dead on; I remember getting emails just about weekly from DPS containing police blotters detailing some assaults/harrassments/thefts near or on campus. And I'd always laugh because I'd bet any sum of money the majority of those "real" crimes could have been avoided if Metro got their priorities straight.
I'll give you one example. I used to live in Burleith myself (for 2 years). One time, we decided to throw a party for my roommate's birthday. The party was supposed to start around 10:30-11ish (as most GU parties do). There were about 9 people at our house around 9:30 when FIVE (yes, that's FIVE) Metro cops showed up at our door. They claimed to have gotten an anonymous phone call from somebody complaining about the noise, and slapped us with a $300 fine for disturbing the peace (which, interestingly enough, was never formally filed at the police station and so we ended up not having to pay it). Why Metro felt compelled to send FIVE Metro officers to break up a party of 9 people (without music at that point) is still beyond me to this day (we joked later that Georgetown might be the only school in the nation where the student to police ratio at parties is less than 2 to 1). One of the people at our house muttered, "Shouldn't four of you be out fighting real crime?," and quickly shut up when the officer asked him to repeat what he said. Looking back on it, that was pretty funny. But at the time, we were incensed, and rightfully so.
Here's what I think students should do. In my four years at GU, I saw countless students who were interested enough in a cause to protest (whether it be about politics, rights of certain groups, workers wages, etc.) Many of them were willing to face being arrested, fines, even starvation (I know many of us remember the tent out in Red Square last year). I don't doubt that if some students made this a more publicized issue and launched a full-scale protest about Metro's priorities, they could possibly at least get some form of media to report it and make it a public issue. My take is this: if GU students are willing to fight and protest for the rights and well-being of others, they should be willing to do the same for themselves. I'd strongly encourage the current students to take some action with regards to this issue, because this isn't about whether or not underage drinking and fake IDs is against the law, it's about a threat to your safety because of police negligence.
|
|
Nevada Hoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 18,459
|
Post by Nevada Hoya on Feb 6, 2006 21:45:30 GMT -5
Sorry to hear about the crime in the area. It seems as if the Georgetown Neighbors ASSn is being a big pain, especially for interlopers. Some people, who come into an area and live there for a couple of years seem to have an entitlement to the area. I can understand the problem with serious noise, but to send that many officers, while other crimes are being committed, seems like wrong priorities.
|
|
RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,134
|
Post by RBHoya on Feb 6, 2006 21:57:36 GMT -5
Y'all probably know a lot more about this than I do. But I think the implication that these guys care more about breaking up students fun than people getting assaulted or robbed is unfair and over-the-top. Nobody in their right mind would priortize in that manner. Bad things like assaults and robberies are going to happen in a place like DC, but overall I think that our neighborhood is pretty safe, and the instances of serious crime to students are few and far between.
The fact that people get mugged in our end of town every so often doesn't mean that students can expect to carry around open containers, fake id, or whatever else and get away with it. If it's against the law, they have every right to bust students for it.
|
|
|
Post by RockawayHoya on Feb 6, 2006 22:08:36 GMT -5
RB, I totally agree with you that underage drinking and fake IDs are still against the law and if students get busted for it, that's their fault and they should face the consequences for their actions.
But, at the same time, there are just far too many incidents which I'm aware of in the past where too much attention was paid to busting parties, especially on days when muggings were committed. The fact of the matter is that it's far safer and more convenient for Metro cops to bust parties than it is to go after criminals (some which may be possibly armed). If I were a cop, I'd much rather bust a party than go after some guy on the street who might have a gun. But, we don't pay taxes so our police forces can live a life of convenience. Keeping neighborhoods safe and stopping violent crimes are their job, and should be their highest priority at all times. There should be no debate about that.
|
|
|
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Feb 6, 2006 23:04:04 GMT -5
I think one of the main problems is the crappy bunch of neighbors we have. The Area around the college should be zoned to allow for a certain level of noise that is higher than the normal standards. Even if not legally it should be in practice this way. The neighbors call the cops for absolutely anything. People will be inside watching TV or playing video games and will have metro show up at their door because a neighbor complained. I can't believe that residents act so surprised and offended that their are drunk college kids out roaming the streets on Friday and Saturday nights. It's a college people and whether they like it or not while not officially part of our campus these places might as well be for all purposes. The metro gets a lot more complaints about drunk noisy college students then it does about muggings. If someone calls they have to respond which takes them away from their more important duties.
|
|
CTHoya08
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Bring back Izzo!
Posts: 2,870
|
Post by CTHoya08 on Feb 6, 2006 23:27:13 GMT -5
While I think it's a little annoying to have Metro breaking up parties, which DPS seems perfectly capable of doing, it is reasonable for them to respond to a complaint from a neighbor. What bothers me, however, is how much time and effort they put into busting kids for these minor violations. Last year, one of my friends was arrested for an open container violation on 37th Street. As soon as he stepped off campus, an undercover Metro officer arrested him. ("I'm just walking along, and a guy in a hoodie pops out of nowhere and cuffs me.") He was taken down to the police station, where his roommate had to bail him out for...
$10.
Then nothing ever came of it afterward. I just don't understand the need to put such energy into arresting someone if you have no intention of prosecuting him, especially in a city where (violent) crime has been such salient problem.
|
|
Cambridge
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Canes Pugnaces
Posts: 5,303
|
Post by Cambridge on Feb 7, 2006 1:23:10 GMT -5
I believe there is a statute in DC (at least there was when I was there 1998-2002) that prohibits arrest for possession of alcohol by a minor. Not only this, but there are many court cases in recent years in DC on this issue. The basic gist...it is unconstitutional for the DC police to make a custodial arrest for a minor in possession of alcohol because the maximum penalty is a fine.
They are only allowed to write a ticket UNLESS they reasonably believe that the minor is in such a state as to cause himself or others harm.
This is the equivalent of jailing someone who broke the speed limit by 5-15 mph. I would seriously advise any students who have been arrested to contact the GULAW center or any lawyer to clear this up...as in there is probably a civil suit that could be levied against the DC police department.
I think this is a despicable attempt to intimidate students who are unaware or ignorant of their legal rights.
I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't spurned on by some grant to the DC police department by some well-intentioned federal govt agency...requiring a certain number of arrests to ensure a future grant. If so, this is highly questionable.
I reiterate, contact a lawyer and perhaps the GULAW center as I feel like any crim pro professor worth his salt would love to tackle to have a few law students tackle a problem like this as part of some externship.
|
|
Cambridge
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Canes Pugnaces
Posts: 5,303
|
Post by Cambridge on Feb 7, 2006 1:28:56 GMT -5
Y'all probably know a lot more about this than I do. But I think the implication that these guys care more about breaking up students fun than people getting assaulted or robbed is unfair and over-the-top. Nobody in their right mind would priortize in that manner. Bad things like assaults and robberies are going to happen in a place like DC, but overall I think that our neighborhood is pretty safe, and the instances of serious crime to students are few and far between. The fact that people get mugged in our end of town every so often doesn't mean that students can expect to carry around open containers, fake id, or whatever else and get away with it. If it's against the law, they have every right to bust students for it. You are right RB, it is against the law, however that does not condone the potentially illegal activities of the DC police. At first blush I think they have overstepped their constitutional bounds.
|
|
|
Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Feb 7, 2006 2:49:55 GMT -5
Here's a story that involves the Constitution and me. I had a party last year off campus in Burlieth. I had some kegs and invited about 200 of my closest friends. The beer was quickly consumed and the party that started at 10:30pm was over before midnight (volume selling people, that's what its all about). There was a group of 7 or 8 people in the house watching TV and listening to music when a cop appeared in our living room. He says "what is the theme of this party? Darkness?" (we were watching a movie at the time).
The officer takes me outside and starts writing a citation. He asks me if I know I broke the law. I ask him if he knows he broke the law (very respectfully). He says yes he knows he did and that his son actually has bigger parties than anything at GU with his buddies at UMCP and he's only there because of the neighbors. Long story short I fought the citation and I am 1-0 in DC District Court.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2006 9:00:54 GMT -5
My two cents...
... this has been going on since I was a freshman almost a decade ago. One of the reasons I despise a certain member of the Athletic Department stems from a time when I was forced to work community service and chose to do so with Sports Info. But WHY I had to work community service is pertinent here.
I'm walking home to Henle 12 from an address on R Street. Seriously, two blocks. I'm all alone. It is around 2am. I'm minding my own business (no joke), finishing off a Gatorade I stole from my buddy's fridge (he was having a party). I'm in the alley between R and Resevoir, two houses from 37th, when three Metro cruisers pull into the alley.
They get out and form a nice little half circle around me, my back to a garage. Then the questions start. "What's in the bottle?" I thought I was done so I said "Nothing." The cop chirps back, "So if I look in that bottle there's nothing in there?" At this point I decide to actually look at it and notice half a sip left. "Oh... there's some Gatorade left." And then things go downhill. "Oh, so you're LYING to me!" It goes on. He keeps acting like a total hard ass, trying to strong arm me into doing something stupid. Eventually he asks for my drivers license. I reply "I don't have that one me." He presses... "So you're telling me you have no ID on you?" I'm a bit Editeded at this point, so I say "I didn't say that, I have my college ID just not my license."
Then he gets Editeded... "OH SO YOU"RE LYING TO ME AGAIN!!! TURN AROUND" So I turn around and another cop pats me down, does that thing. When he's done I turn around and start to put my hands in my pockets as they examine my ID and call it in to DoPS. A cop to my left... who I hadn't even SEEN to this point, yells at me "SIR, TAKE YOUR HANDS OUT OF YOUR POCKETS NOW!" I look at him and he's... no lie... got his hand on his gun and is pointing at me with his other hand. I just shut up from there. DoPS showed up, took me "into custody," and wrote me up for "public lewdness" based on what the cops said. Ridiculous.
I kind of wish they'd arrested me, though. Why, you ask? Because a month or so earlier was the first Trinidad-De La Hoya fight at the same house for one of my buddy's b-days. It was pre-party, there were about 10 of us. Cops showed up and came in, but sat down and watched six or so rounds with us! Little did they know, my friend VIDEO TAPED the whole thing. Hehehe. That would have made for some sweet viewing in the courthouse alongside the video this same friend took of these six cops busting my balls.
|
|
|
Post by RockawayHoya on Feb 7, 2006 11:34:11 GMT -5
I believe there is a statute in DC (at least there was when I was there 1998-2002) that prohibits arrest for possession of alcohol by a minor. Not only this, but there are many court cases in recent years in DC on this issue. The basic gist...it is unconstitutional for the DC police to make a custodial arrest for a minor in possession of alcohol because the maximum penalty is a fine. They are only allowed to write a ticket UNLESS they reasonably believe that the minor is in such a state as to cause himself or others harm. Bridge, all I can say is I wish I knew of this around April 2002 . While we're on the subject of crappy neighbors: while living in Burleith, we lived next to the most unreasonable couple (who have since moved back to France, BTW) ever. One time the guy came over our house and threatened to call the cops on us because he was disturbed by our smoke detector going off. I still find it curious how he was disturbed and our neighbors on the other side didn't hear it all, considering the smoke detector was located on the wall adjacent to our non-complaining neighbors. I'm still convinced he's the same guy who phoned in that "anonymous" phone call to stop my roommate's birthday party before it even got started... and the worst thing about that is that we specifically went over his house the day before throwing the party to ask for permission to throw the party in the first place.
|
|
|
Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Feb 7, 2006 13:44:16 GMT -5
One of my neighbors also called the cops on my roommate celebrating Rosh Hashana (i know i'm butchering that, but I'm not Jewish so give me a break) with JSA. The cops came to the door and met Rabbi White, they left shortly afterwards. Ridiculous.
|
|
|
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Feb 7, 2006 14:08:30 GMT -5
|
|
watsonry
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 314
|
Post by watsonry on Feb 7, 2006 14:12:37 GMT -5
Best quote from article:
As police search for the suspects, they will be ramping up a “high visibility campaign,” said Metropolitan Police Department Lt. Felcia Lucas. But, she warned, police are often tied up dealing with rowdy students.
“If our people weren’t taken away dealing with large parties and drinking all the time, we could have high-visibility patrols and try to deter some of serious problems that go on,” she said
--yeah, it is called priorties you stupid b!tch....students are actually getting shot and you use it as an excuse to "call out" rowdy students...please
|
|
CTHoya08
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Bring back Izzo!
Posts: 2,870
|
Post by CTHoya08 on Feb 7, 2006 14:23:37 GMT -5
If they let DPS handle the parties, they would be free to do more important things.
|
|
CAHoya07
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,598
|
Post by CAHoya07 on Feb 7, 2006 20:49:59 GMT -5
Best quote from article: As police search for the suspects, they will be ramping up a “high visibility campaign,” said Metropolitan Police Department Lt. Felcia Lucas. But, she warned, police are often tied up dealing with rowdy students. “If our people weren’t taken away dealing with large parties and drinking all the time, we could have high-visibility patrols and try to deter some of serious problems that go on,” she said --yeah, it is called priorties you stupid b!tch....students are actually getting shot and you use it as an excuse to "call out" rowdy students...please Yeah, that quote really jumped out at me too. I mean, what's more important - busting parties and arresting students for open containers of alcohol, or ensuring the neighborhood's (not just the students', but the NEIGHBORHOOD's) safety by having cops that patrol the area to deter muggings and shootings? I mean, yes, both are against the law, but shouldn't the safety of the neighborhood ALWAYS take priority? It's really sad because I feel that someone has to die before Metro gets its priorities straight. I mean, the article makes it sound as if we're a huge, out of control state school. We're not. Our parties don't get that out of hand. It seems as if Metro has to arrest X number of college kids (I was one of them last year) for open container of alcohol (which is different from minor in possession, that's what makes it legal for them to arrest, I found out) to prove to neighborhood residents that they're doing something to combat the "noise" problem. I also remember reading about residents being "shocked" at the instution of an expanded Safe Ride program. Shocked? At what? Trying to protect our students and keep the campus and surrounding areas safer? I don't understand how a group could oppose such a thing. I'd really like to hear the other side of the story, because I just don't see it. The residents do have a right to complain about noise at 2am when they have famliies that are trying to sleep, but too many times it seems they are stepping outside of their bounds and have too much power. I could go on for longer, but I won't because most has already been said. There is Safety Town Hall meeting tomorrow night at 7pm in Sellinger. If students want to do something about this, I suggest they attend this meeting.
|
|
Jack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,411
|
Post by Jack on Feb 7, 2006 21:15:05 GMT -5
There is Safety Town Hall meeting tomorrow night at 7pm in Sellinger. If students want to do something about this, I suggest they attend this meeting. Although the notice I got for the town hall indicated that the only authority figures who are going to be there are GU administrators. They are certainly important, but I would prefer to have Metro and resident groups there to answer a few questions. That quote from The Hoya article is appalling.
|
|
Gold Hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,578
|
Post by Gold Hoya on Feb 8, 2006 1:33:59 GMT -5
One of my neighbors also called the cops on my roommate celebrating Rosh Hashana (i know i'm butchering that, but I'm not Jewish so give me a break) with JSA. The cops came to the door and met Rabbi White, they left shortly afterwards. Ridiculous. the great thing about spelling out Hebrew words in English is that you can't spell them wrong, since they're Hebrew words. Anything close is perfectly fine.
|
|