HOYAPLAYA
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
IT'S TIME FOR A RUNNNNNNN!!!!!!
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Post by HOYAPLAYA on Dec 24, 2004 8:21:36 GMT -5
Don't look now, but that same sophomore guard that some of my fellow posters were saying couldn't play on this level is now starting to play and contribute. Per minute, he now leads the team in assists and steals. I'm not saying he's a superstar but he is only a sophomore coming off an injury and playing his eighth game of the season after missing some of last year. Maybe, he'll never be a starter or an All-Big East performer, but he definitely has shown JT III something as the coach has been getting him more minutes and has had nothing but positive things to say about him.
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HoyaFanNY
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Never throw to the venus on a spider 3 Y banana!
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Dec 24, 2004 11:59:33 GMT -5
good to see ray finally contributing and healthy. we need him to spell wallace.
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SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by SirSaxa on Dec 24, 2004 13:17:59 GMT -5
Ray looked very good yesterday. Under control and really quick. essentially, we had a three guard rotation of Wallace, Cook and Reed. At one point, all three were in with Green and Bowman. That was an incredibly quick and athletic line up and it gave Clemson fits.
I didn't see Reed this summer, or earlier this season when people were complaining about him. But he looked really good out here in Hawaii, especailly against Clemson. He seemed to have a really good idea of the offense and defense. Played hard all the time.
The guard issue I would focus on the most is lazy passes by Cook. He has them picked off all the time. I think he just isn't concentrating. He doesn't seem to have as much awareness or peripheral vision as one would expect. Even after getting several picked off, he was still making lackadaisical passes. Other coaches will see this and their kids will be on the lookout for it.
That said, Cook also has a tremendous amount of athletic ability as we all know. Playing him at the two makes him a lot more effective.
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TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
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Post by TBird41 on Dec 25, 2004 0:46:28 GMT -5
My problem w/ Reed has always been the fact that he's out of control most of the time when he's on the court. He has a tendency to drive baseline w/o any idea of what he's planning on doing and then throwing up a wild shot or pass b/c he's run into the big guys. IF, Reed is in control and works within the offense, he has the potential to be a solid contributer. Hopefully, he's turned the corner and has realized what he can and can't get away with at the Division I level.
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dreamhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by dreamhoya on Dec 25, 2004 11:04:51 GMT -5
I tell you one thing, in summer leaque, last year, before ray reed took the court. Many people were like "wow" - he worked so hard and was so quick and could dunk at ease. If you remember, early his freshman year - Esh relied on him to go strong to the hoop and make plays and he made some pretty good ones. in the right situation, he could be all big east, but he def has to work on his mid and long-range game. Can JTIII help him with that?
cw
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Post by Fan Of The Game on Dec 28, 2004 13:30:02 GMT -5
I would love to admit that I'm wrong about Ray Reed, but in the five games in which I've seen him play he was an incredible offensive liability. Not in a Darrell-Owens-not-contributing kind of way but in a taking-things-off-the-table way. I'm glad to hear he picked up his game against Long Beach State and a struggling Clemson team, but I'll need to see a much improved performance in Big East play before I admit that he can play at this level.
Defensively, he's been solid all year, and kudos to him for that. I'll be anxiously watching for him to cross into double digits in steals on the season tonight against Norfolk State.
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FOTP
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by FOTP on Dec 28, 2004 14:07:18 GMT -5
Fan of the Game knows my feeling about Ray...
He excels against teams in the early part of the season because that's his correct level of play. He's not a Big East player...period.
The guy likes to dominate the ball which is the exact opposite of what's needed to run JTIII's offense. Anyone who was at the McDonough game can remember him getting yelled at by his own teammate(Ross) for not running the offense at all.
Ray would be great at a lower level D-1 school where they would give him free reign to turn the ball over and play out of control.
I heard College of Charleston is looking for more Hoyas that were recruited above their playing level by Esherick...
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 28, 2004 14:11:40 GMT -5
FOTP, I think you've gotta give Ray a chance here. He's got a new coach, and he's not one to let him freelance. If Ray isn't BE level, at least in terms of natural tools, then neither is Ashanti, because Ray is quicker. His skills were just a bit behind. I think III can help him there.
Five assists in so few minutes is impressive. He actually drove, which is something our team has been hesitant to do.
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FOTP
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by FOTP on Dec 28, 2004 14:19:39 GMT -5
Ray is not made for this system at all. In addition, he was a throw in recruit who wasn't highly rated .
I'm glad you brought up Ashanti...my other favorite overrated player from the west coast.
For the record: If you recruit a kid in the LA area and UCLA, USC or any number of top D-1 schools aren't recruiting them then we should stay away...period.
Their is a reason why Bowman, Ashanti, Sead and Ray weren't being seriously recruited by schools that could drive down the highway to see them play.
Why were we recruiting in LA to begin with? It's not like Esherick had connections out there...oh wait...I forgot...his law school buddy called him up to tell him how great Sead was...kill me.
At the end of the day the recruiting in the last couple of years of the Esherick era was suspect at best. Let's just move on and realize that we gave scholarships to some kids that frankly didn't deserve them.
JTIII is on the right track and on the right players.
WE need to start guys like Roy and just give him a ton of PT to see if he has what it takes to be a difference maker in the Big East.
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Dec 28, 2004 14:25:11 GMT -5
ill be the first to admit i didnot seeit but was impressed by reeds passing sounded like some great inside passes tothe big guys... some great steals and spark... and sounded not outa control think he even hit some good free throws hope he keeps it up maybe all these guys are playing... and how about jeff all tourney and big east rookie for the second time rudy who go hoyas
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FOTP
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by FOTP on Dec 28, 2004 14:36:17 GMT -5
I'm so confused....I want to provide a comeback to this, but my head just exploded.
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Dec 28, 2004 14:46:11 GMT -5
the bottom line there all playing good even ray and if brandon is consistant watch out is that clear go hoyas
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by hoyarooter on Dec 28, 2004 16:40:49 GMT -5
If III thinks Ray is good enough to play substantial minutes, then I would venture to say that he can't be that bad a fit into III's system. Conversely, if III didn't think Ray could play, Ray probably wouldn't play (see Dizzy and Corny). We need to remember that Ray is just beginning his sophomore year, so it is far too early to characterize him as a hopeless case, particularly coming off what seems to be a very solid performance against a quality opponent.
Also, I think Bowman was recruited by USC.
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Post by Fan Of The Game on Dec 28, 2004 16:53:28 GMT -5
If III thinks Ray is good enough to play substantial minutes, then I would venture to say that he can't be that bad a fit into III's system. Conversely, if III didn't think Ray could play, Ray probably wouldn't play (see Dizzy and Corny). We need to remember that Ray is just beginning his sophomore year, so it is far too early to characterize him as a hopeless case, particularly coming off what seems to be a very solid performance against a quality opponent. Also, I think Bowman was recruited by USC. It's probably also to early to characterize him as "getting substantial minutes". He had 28 minutes in our most recent game with three of our guys starters in foul trouble. If anything it shows me how weak our bench really is. I really do hope he and Owens are able to play better ball come Big East play...our starters cannot all go 40 minutes a game.
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ShimmyJr
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
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Post by ShimmyJr on Dec 28, 2004 18:09:30 GMT -5
wow - FOTP, dead on with the analysis on west coast recruiting...I would go easy on brandon, even though i think he is waaaaaay overrated by members of this Board - this kid is NOT going to the NBA - but he was still highly touted behind hassan adams on that westchester squad...as for ashanti, more questionable.
and with ray and sead, they were absolutely panic-recruits b/c esh had lost some players because he sucked, and no one wanted to come to georgetown apparently because everyone knew that he sucked. we might as well have flushed those schollies down the can in my opinion...but as always i pray that these youngsters prove me wrong...so far it looks like Sead is a TOTAL loss and ray ray is bad brandon x 1000
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TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
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Post by TBird41 on Dec 29, 2004 0:58:00 GMT -5
Reed is a pickup basketball player. You can see it in the way he plays-all those out of control drives have a pretty good shot of working when the defense hasn't been practicing together, working on helping, etc...
Then, every once in a while, he'll make a BASKETBALL play, and display the quickness, vision and skills necessary to be a solid Big East player. One can only hope that under JT3 he develops that-my hope is that by his senior year he's a dependable player (6th man energy type). Right now, he's getting minutes b/c he has potential and b/c there really isn't anyone else.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 29, 2004 2:39:35 GMT -5
Ray had four assists in 20 minutes and only one TO. He leads the team in assists/minute, and is right up there in ratio.
In the last two games, Ray's had nine assists.
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SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by SirSaxa on Dec 29, 2004 3:31:57 GMT -5
Ray Reed has become the #1 guard off the bench because he is playing well. He is physically gifted and is learning to play the game. ON the highlights reel you can see he had a nice drive and dish for a layup.
He is developing and is already a valuable member of the team. Don't judge him by his Kenner league play, watch the kid now.
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Dec 29, 2004 7:23:45 GMT -5
I have to say, in the midst of a couple (or several) scary moments last night, I thought the team looked better most of the time that Ray was manning one of the guard spots. Not as much when the Hoyas were playing a three guard lineup, but when he was manning the point or the two, the offense actually seemed to flow better in many spots -- in large part due to his drive-and-dish ability.
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Jack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by Jack on Dec 29, 2004 9:36:05 GMT -5
For the record: If you recruit a kid in the LA area and UCLA, USC or any number of top D-1 schools aren't recruiting them then we should stay away...period. Sherman Douglas, Mike Smith, Lawrence Moten, and Etan Thomas all say hello. It may prove to be true that Ray is not a top talent and was in fact properly evaluated by the local powers in SoCal, but more than one All-Big East level performer has been ignored by the schools in his backyard and gone on to haunt the coach who did not recognize his potential. Ask Al Skinner whether it was worthwhile to take a chance on Craig Smith or Jared Dudley. Ray is very unlikely to be a player of that caliber, but he has shown something recently to suggest that he is a useful player on this team. He is still out of control at times, but he also does look for passes and he has the defensive ability to stick with quicker guards that Wallace has not shown yet. I agree with the idea of using Ray as the first guard off the bench right now and trying to have 2 of Reed, Cook, and Wallace on the court all the time, with 3 of Bowman, Green, Hibbert, Owens, and Ross taking the rest of the PT. As for the rest of the bench, Crawford and Guibunda need to get better in practice- they look lost in games. AKD can be used when there is foul trouble. Sead probably won't play much, but that is ok too. Just because you have 13 scholarships does not mean everyone has to be potential All-Big East. Sead may have been a "throwaway" recruit, and he was certainly unheralded and last-minute, but he seems to be a nice kid who is very involved with the game on the bench, and maybe he adds something in practice. He is only a sophomore so maybe he contributes in time as well. I would rather have a kid who is happy in his role on the bench and contributing to the life of the university(e.g. Omari Faulkner) than a rotating cast of Jason Burns and Willie Taylors who transfer out when they don't start as freshmen.
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