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Freeman
Nov 12, 2007 14:46:25 GMT -5
Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Nov 12, 2007 14:46:25 GMT -5
Not that we should chuck the idea of Pat/Vern platooning the starting position at the 4 just yet, but I think that we should move to a smaller line-up with Wallace, Sapp, Freeman, Summers and Hibbert. Freeman did well on defense and will find his shot and a 5th option in this offense.
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Freeman
Nov 12, 2007 15:12:41 GMT -5
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Nov 12, 2007 15:12:41 GMT -5
If pat or vernon doesn't show anything the next couple of games I'll fully support this.
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hoyaboy1
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,346
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Freeman
Nov 12, 2007 15:14:18 GMT -5
Post by hoyaboy1 on Nov 12, 2007 15:14:18 GMT -5
Obviously if Pat and Vernon continue to play like they did on Saturday this may be necessary, but it is a little premature right now. Either way, the lineups should probably be situational depending on the opponent.
I'm a huge Freeman fan and think he is going to be a complete stud, so I'm in favor of anything that will get him minutes. Still, he seemed a little overly cautious (Wright too), and he'll need to be more than a spot-up shooter to maximize his effectiveness. I am completely confident he will do so, but I suppose it may take a bit longer in our offense.
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Freeman
Nov 12, 2007 15:19:48 GMT -5
Post by strummer8526 on Nov 12, 2007 15:19:48 GMT -5
Totally agree. It is very premature, but in two or three games, I might be ready to quit on Vern.
For all I know, in February he may be our 3rd leading scorer and I'll look like an idiot. I think it's more likely that he bounces around the lane and averages 1.3 points a game.
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hoyaboy1
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,346
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Freeman
Nov 12, 2007 15:24:25 GMT -5
Post by hoyaboy1 on Nov 12, 2007 15:24:25 GMT -5
I'd really like feedback from people who saw Vernon in college as to what made him a top prospect. From what I have seen in 2 seasons of Kenner and 1 of college play, he is a good but not great athlete, struggles with both man and help defense, can't block shots, doesn't box out, and is very uncomfortable with his shot. He's a decent offensive rebounder, has a few post moves and is actually a surprisingly good passer, but I really struggle to see the potential that we heard so much about before he got here.
Is he just misplaced in our style of play, or do you think he simply needs more time to show his skills and develop?
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Freeman
Nov 12, 2007 15:38:26 GMT -5
Post by DoubleOhHoya on Nov 12, 2007 15:38:26 GMT -5
Patience, everyone. We knew Vern was raw coming in. He's one game into his sophomore year. Give the guy a chance. I have complete confidence that he'll be a valuable contributor this season.
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SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 747
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Freeman
Nov 12, 2007 15:39:18 GMT -5
Post by SirSaxa on Nov 12, 2007 15:39:18 GMT -5
I hate to think it is necessary for a voice of reason to step in here but -- what the heck are you guys talking about?
One game? First game of year?
Whoa Nellie!
pat Jr. played a crucial role all year in '07, and he got better and better as the year went on. Vernon was a Mickey D AA. He is just now getting a chance to show what he can do. These guys need some time. Remember the early season game last year when Jeff scored two points? The losses to ODU and more?
These guys need our support as JT3 tries his combinations and gets his team together. This is an excellent time to be backing these young kids and cheering them on. And one other thing, as the season progresses, we are going to need Size and up front depth to compete against the really big boys of the Conference and the country.
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dTRAIN
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 189
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Freeman
Nov 12, 2007 15:45:44 GMT -5
Post by dTRAIN on Nov 12, 2007 15:45:44 GMT -5
Support aside, both Pat and Ticket seem to be 'energy-guys'. Some times these guys are best suited coming off the bench. I think a big challenge this year will be mixing these 3 guys in. If Ticket doesn't have a big year, I worry that we 'lose' him.
dTRAIN
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Freeman
Nov 12, 2007 15:45:52 GMT -5
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Nov 12, 2007 15:45:52 GMT -5
No i agree sirsaxa, but if it's december and neither has flourished in the starting roll, I'd be all for moving to a smaller line up with pat coming of the bench. For now we just have to be patient. I'm almost positive that one will make this an unnecessary change.
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
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Freeman
Nov 12, 2007 15:48:46 GMT -5
Post by sleepy on Nov 12, 2007 15:48:46 GMT -5
I expect to see people being extremely critical of Pat and Vern the rest of the season, especially in the beginning. Its like the guard problem from last year, the four position is our "weak" spot. Every time we lose everyone is going to go back to say if Jeff was playing the four we would have been able to do this and do that. I think Pat needs to get used to starting, and I don't expect to start seeing real production from these two until mid-december, because they need to get acclemated to their new roles on this team. They are the only two that have to really re-adjust from last year. Give them time.
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Freeman
Nov 12, 2007 16:23:34 GMT -5
Post by I Bleed Hoya Gray on Nov 12, 2007 16:23:34 GMT -5
Ewing didn't impress me on Sat. But I think Vernon has got potential. He didn't shoot until the last possession, so it's ok he didn't get any points. But there was something about him that made me feel more confident with him in there than last year. He looked more sure of himself or something.
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balla
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,059
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Freeman
Nov 12, 2007 16:29:33 GMT -5
Post by balla on Nov 12, 2007 16:29:33 GMT -5
This thread is funny. Lets try and TRADE Pat and Vern right now, so we can get some value. If not lets just wave them.
With all of the money that Steinbrener has invested into this team, we should dominate the universe.
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nychoya3
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,674
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Freeman
Nov 12, 2007 16:37:30 GMT -5
Post by nychoya3 on Nov 12, 2007 16:37:30 GMT -5
My frustration with Vernon is that he seems to be an average or below defensive rebounder, and not a particularly skilled shotblocker. Given his frame and his length and his, at the very least, adequate physical gifts, you'd think he'd be more effective those areas. And those are precisely what we lack from any other big on the roster right now.
That said, he has a lot going for him and I continue to have high hopes. Maybe we need to just expect different, but also very valuable things out of him.
I love Freeman. I don't know how much he'll actually score this year, but he's a great ballplayer. And lord is he thick. We need to figure out ways to let him use his width to beat the bejeezus out of 2 guards. What was the name of that guy Temple had a couple years back?
It wasn't a great day for Pat, but he's a baller. You know what he gives you.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,899
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Freeman
Nov 12, 2007 17:02:49 GMT -5
Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 12, 2007 17:02:49 GMT -5
One piece of note: our freshman class last year had 11 points over the first three games. They didn't score in the Hartford game.
DaJuan was committing offensive fouls hari-kari until the middle of the BE season and Pat could barely stay on the court. Roy got shut out by Villanova.
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kghoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,046
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Freeman
Nov 12, 2007 17:16:30 GMT -5
Post by kghoya on Nov 12, 2007 17:16:30 GMT -5
Not that we should chuck the idea of Pat/Vern platooning the starting position at the 4 just yet, but I think that we should move to a smaller line-up with Wallace, Sapp, Freeman, Summers and Hibbert. Freeman did well on defense and will find his shot and a 5th option in this offense. this is the lineup that i thought the hoyas would go with...it might still happen remember crawford started last year as.... a starter
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Freeman
Nov 12, 2007 17:37:52 GMT -5
Post by hoyaderm1 on Nov 12, 2007 17:37:52 GMT -5
NYC - I assume you are referring to Marc Karcher, a power shooting guard who scored a lot for Temple. As for Vern...3 blocks in 342 minutes or something last year. Shouldn't a 6'10 freak athlete block a shot on occasion? I've seen nothing that makes me think that they guy can play - not saying he can't play, I just haven't seen it yet. Hopefully he blossoms this year.
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Dhall
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,679
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Freeman
Nov 12, 2007 17:40:34 GMT -5
Post by Dhall on Nov 12, 2007 17:40:34 GMT -5
Jeff Green stunk the beginning of last year. Don't forget that. Also, Vernon played well Saturday on the whole if you were at the game. We know Patrick can play well based on his performances last year. Freeman ... he contributed nothing Saturday other than making one jump shot. Way too early to draw any conclusions on Vernon and Freeman, but Patrick has proven himself a very capable player at Indiana and Georgetown in 3 years of high level basketball. Vernon and Freeman have proven themselves against high school players.
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Nevada Hoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 18,668
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Freeman
Nov 12, 2007 17:45:54 GMT -5
Post by Nevada Hoya on Nov 12, 2007 17:45:54 GMT -5
We could have had Austin start, fed him the ball, and have him get his 32 pts like OJ. But you see the result: a loss by a ranked team to MERCER. With the team we have now we should start the veterans, even if they don't light it up the first game. We have the advantage of developing the freshmen and let them grow into the system. Our goal is down the ROAD, so I am sure JTIII and the other coaches are taking everything in and will make changes accordingly.
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HoyaChris
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,412
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Freeman
Nov 12, 2007 18:38:47 GMT -5
Post by HoyaChris on Nov 12, 2007 18:38:47 GMT -5
Vernon played a little bit with Roy and played on the wing in the zone. His reaction to the ball reversals setting up a william and Mary corner J was excellent and produced two or three bad misses. It reminded me of how Patrick sometimes came out at a jump shoter.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,899
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Freeman
Nov 12, 2007 19:49:50 GMT -5
Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 12, 2007 19:49:50 GMT -5
That's good to hear, Chris. Our defensive results in the second half were outstanding.
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