Thread to discuss the pulling of the sports pool.

[MEGAFAN]

This is what I wrote to the admin regarding my sportspool thread being pulled:


"Is this the case when all money is being donated to a non-profit. Basically, all we're doing is collectively donating money to the Hoya Hoop Club. This is why I set up this way, without making it so that people get half, and the school the rest, or whatever. I understand the caution with which you would like to approach this matter, but we are not officially affiliated with Georgetown and/or the NCAA, so with all due respect, I think you are taking a level of caution that is unecessary.

Of course, this is your board, and you have the right to regulate it as you see fit, but I am worried that you may not have considered the details of this arrangement, which, from my perspective, would not even be frowned upon by Georgetown. It's like saying: "How about we all donate a big chunk of money to the hoop club, but rather than us each giving $20 and receiving no benefits, why don't we get 10 people together, draw straws, and we'll donate $200 under that persons name, so at least the $200 can go towards getting season tickets, seats at the BET, etc."

Please understand that I'm not trying to be argumentative for the sake of it, but you must admit, given how many opinionated people we have on this board, including lawyers, etc., who are quick to chime in regarding so many topics, it is surprising that this issue was never once raised after several days on this board.

Well, I'll leave it at that. Would it be possible to then have the same thread going, but without real money?

Thanks.

GO HOYAS!!!"


Understand, I'm not trying to create a big hoot out of this thing, I'm just curious as to hear other people's opinons. Believe it or not, I may even change my mind regarding the decision if someone puts forth a convincing argument.

Barring an unlikely decision reversal, we will have to conduct any pool outside of the realms of this board. Therefore, use this thread to either make comments, or to let me know you would be interested, and we can do this via email, etc.

GO HOYAS!!!

[GUHoya07]

LET THE POOL LIVE!!!! Come on Admin, you can let this one go, it isn't what I would call gambling when all the money is basically a donation anyway.

[TBird41]

I definately agree w/ 007 and Megafan...keep the pool!
It's like buying a raffle ticket or participating in a silent auction for charity (aka the Basketball program)

[SFHoya99]

Eh, I can see his point. There's no reason for DFW to endanger his board with a Neuheisel. Now, if someone were to arrange it outside of the board...

[Cambridge]

feel free to add me to any private list that regards

[e-mail]

[SpanishHoya]

No big deal guys... understand admin point...life can go on outside the gray confines of this board

You can start a yahoo group, like this example...

groups.yahoo.com/group/Gtown_HHC_Fundraiser/

If you are not familiar with yahoo groups, they have own message board and a bunch of basic features that would serve our needs...

[Cambridge]

I've signed up

[YB]

me too

[DanMcQ]

Mega (and others),

The issue isn't fundraising or having a pool (both are excellent ideas) or whether WE might view this activity as not being gambling; the issue is how the NCAA might view it, since this board can be construed as boosters of the Georgetown Hoops program. In that sense, it is not worth the downside risk to do it here. Moving to another, more private, venue is probably a better idea. SFHoya99's post hits the nail on the head.

You should check with the Hoop Club about the specifics of this as well - they may not be able to accept such a donation given the arcane rules the NCAA has and the NCAA's often bizarre application of them.

See admin's post at the end of the original thread:

hoyatalk2.proboards30.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1103060985&start=15

[TrueHoyaBlue]

My instinct is that this wouldn't be a problem, as long as the "ante" is clearly a donation, and the winner will be receiving a non-monetary prize, but I can understand that it falls squarely in gray area, and understand why admin could feel uneasy about it.

[Joe Hoya]

Why don't you all just send the donations right to the HHC and avoid any potential conflicts/necessity for skill at picking games?

[CAHoya07]

Because that would negate the whole purpose of the pool: to make a big donation in someone's name so that that person can reap all the HHC benefits of making that donation.

[Joe Hoya]

If the benefits are really that important to someone, then they can make a large enough donation on their own. Otherwise, the real important thing is that the donation gets made.

[GUHoya07]

Joe, I understand your point about the importance of the donations being made regardless, but I doubt that most of these guys would make a $1,000 donation on their own. It is a very creative and fun way to get people involved in donating and providing one person with the benefits of a $1,000 donation. Most of these people probably already donated but this would be an additional donation for someone. Don't act like this is a stupid idea, I think everyone knows that they could make a $25 donation on their own if they wanted to.

[Cambridge]

Man I knew someone would post something totally inane like that...actually took longer than I thought.

Let's see, you are right Joe, if we really cared we would make the donation anyways and wouldn't need a silly game. Hmmm. That's true. In fact, I would bet that most of us who were interested already have made donations.

Of course the point was to capitalize on some of the positive feelings toward the program and turn some more casual fans into program supporters and donors. Who knows, maybe one guy who would never give $10 to Hoya Hoops thought this would be fun and puts in for this little pool. He wins and because of how much fun he had...he becomes a life long donor. Happens all the time. I work in marketing and advertising and the hardest thing is to activate someone who is interested. Sure, you can get them intrigued with clever ideas and slogans, but to get them to actually put some money down...ah...that's the rub.

This is what MEGAFAN was trying to achieve. He was creating a fun, interactive game that would peak the interest of hardcore fans (probably already donors) as well as casual fans (people who would probably never donate) thereby maximizing the pool of donors AND AT THE SAME TIME keep the focus on the basketball team.

But no, you're right. If everyone was as good as you and all the other donors, we wouldn't need to do things like this or come up with other creative ways to get people involved. Of course, they aren't as good as you and apparently they never will be...

[lichoya68]

why fool with the pool that the ncaa might even consider a problem no way man not a good idea gohoyas but if you do the pool you may be a fool etc etc

[GUHoya07]

Man, lichoya, take it easy, crack kills

I gotta admit that the fool and pool rhymes are funny though, haha.

[Joe Hoya]

I did not say it was a stupid idea. Stop putting words in my mouth.

My only question is why do something that is pretty risky as NCAA regulations go when you can all just mail the $25 to the Hoop Club?

The NCAA's number one crusade is against gambling. That includes players, coaches, athletic department employees, and yes, booster clubs. If you try to do something like this, there's a chance it could cause trouble. In fact, if someone were to lay some money on the Hoyas to win the Big East Tournament, as was suggested by somebody, i guarantee the Hoop Club would not accept the donation, and if they did, we'd be in some serious doo-doo.

Again, I didn't say someone should donate $1,000. I just said if the member benefits were really that important to someone, then they should pony up themselves. And if the people involved are already members, why not just increase their donation and get more benefits? I just see nothing but problems coming from something like this.

Cambridge, I resent your personal attack on me. I don't profess to know much about what it takes to be a marketing genius as you apparently are, but I do know that the little "game" you reference is a gambling venture. There has to be a way to avoid the whole "Neuheisel" thing (as someone referred to it) and still get people to donate. I commend MEGAFAN for taking initiative, but this is an idea that is probably best left alone. But again, I'm not a marketing genius like you, so maybe it IS the only way to get people involved.

If any of the students on campus really want to gamble though, stay away from sports. Send me a PM and we'll play poker. Much safer.

[CAHoya07]

Clearly, Joe Hoya, you are missing the point. First, nobody ever said this is the ONLY way to get people to donate. You yourself should stop putting words in other people's mouths. This is simply ONE WAY in which to get some people to donate for the first time, others to donate more, and in general to raise some money for Hoya basketball. Some people on the board already donate, and some do not. However, this idea would raise money in addition to all that already having been donated for the good of the Hoya Hoop Club, and for the good of Hoya basketball in general. Sure, it would be easier to just mail a check to the Hoya Hoop Club, but that takes away the fun and incentive of this event.

I'm not sure about all the legal NCAA crap that goes with this, but I'm sure that some people know more than me what is legal and what is not, and that is why it is being taken off this board. I respect a wide variety of opinions on this board, but in this case, JoeHoya, I just think you are wrong, and it comes across that you are trying to rain on this parade that a lot of people are already excited about.

[Cambridge]

Joe, you missed my point and perhaps I missed yours. If I did I appologize.

I have no problem with you criticizing the specific pool in general. In fact, I think you have pretty strong grounds on that issue. I may disagree, but I have a feeling the NCAA sides with you...and that's all that matters.

However, I sensed another message in your post -- that such ideas were unnecessary. That's what I had a problem with. Perhaps I misinterpreted this and if so I'm sorry.

MY point was that the one factor that really separates Georgetown from both its Ivy League peers and basketball rivals is one thing -- money and resources. Georgetown has a long troubled history with fundraising and a icy relationship with a large section of its alumni. We need to create a more involved, active alumni and donor community if we want to compete academically with the Harvards & Yales and atheletically with the UConns and Cuses. I got wound up, probably for no good reason, because I felt like you were criticizing the very idea of creative fundraising.

I think ideas like MEGAFANS, while perhaps this specific idea is not the best, are critical in a long term strategy for bringing in alumni turning them into lifelong donors. I agree, that we should all send in $20...in fact I have done so. However, we should brainstorm ideas -- like those of MEGAFAN -- that will get people who otherwise wouldn't give, to give.

I'm sorry, that I blew up at you. It was uncalled for and I appologize. Most of that vitriol was just me venting at the innane nature of the NCAA.

Now, does anyone have any suggestions that won't get the university banned from post-season play?