idhoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by idhoya on Feb 7, 2008 21:11:15 GMT -5
Adrien with 2 or 3 inches would be Jerome Williams. A fine, BE type player, but not much perimeter from him (although he's improved) to warrant being called "the best player in the country". As he stands now, he may be little more than Sergio McClain.
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hoyaLS05
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by hoyaLS05 on Feb 7, 2008 21:22:02 GMT -5
This is an irrelevant point, but at 6-foot-7 Adrien averages 14 points (Jerome topped out at 10.9) and 9.2 rebounds (Jerome averaged about the same at 6-foot-9). I've got to think that if Adrien were 6-9 or 6-10, he would score at least as many as he is right now, and almost certainly more, and would be able to grab an extra rebound, or two, per game. You're right, best player in the country is hyperbole, but I think Jerome Williams, as much as we all love him as a Hoya, is selling Adrien + 2/3 inches short.
Now how's that for a totally pointless debate?
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RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by RBHoya on Feb 7, 2008 22:14:59 GMT -5
Adrien is listed at 6'7 but that's very generous. People were saying he was 6'5 coming out of high school. I don't think he's taller than 6'6 now. With 2 or 3 inches I was figuring he'd be around 6'8 or 6'9, standard PF height. I'd happily take a player of his caliber regardless of height, the "Adrien + a few inches" was basically the ideal player for us. Obviously in real life you have to make some tradeoffs--players with Adrien's game and motor are few and far between, let alone players with that same motor AND ideal size. Just something to shoot for.
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jgalt
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by jgalt on Feb 7, 2008 22:56:29 GMT -5
my ideal player is a jamaican who is 7 foot tall, grew up in boston, and is one of the most ferocious blockers/players ever, and that will someday play with nicks and produce a son in his junior year of college that will also be a great off the bench player
but that will never happen(again). it doesnt make any sense to talk about what the ideal is because they arent there, you got to only look at who is available.
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by sleepy on Feb 7, 2008 23:37:55 GMT -5
Our ideal player should not be Jeff Adrien. We may want his rebounding and post skills, but he is a poor passer, not a very good outside shooter, and I have never really seen him handle the ball. While his other skill sets may be what we lack, we need a PF who can do all those things. Or atleast 2 of the 3.
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jgalt
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by jgalt on Feb 7, 2008 23:44:26 GMT -5
one more post after mine and this becomes tied for the longest thread all time
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vcjack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by vcjack on Feb 7, 2008 23:55:23 GMT -5
one more post after mine and this becomes tied for the longest thread all time cool
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Feb 8, 2008 0:17:56 GMT -5
one more post after mine and this becomes tied for the longest thread all time The UNC in-game thread hit about 20 pages, I think, before an apparent board malfunction caused it to disappear.
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jgalt
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by jgalt on Feb 8, 2008 0:22:03 GMT -5
but you cant prove it!
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Feb 8, 2008 0:39:51 GMT -5
Hollis Thompson had 21 points to lead Loyola to at least a share of the Conference Title for the 7th time in last 8 years. In regards to the questions about Braswell, don't worry about his offensive game--on the blocks he's most polished of the frontcourt recruits in terms of post moves/footwork. He's got a great drop step/up and under move and is far more talented then some give him credit for. He's just an outstanding rebounder--has nose for ball. Remember--prior to his JR year--he was considered a top 15 recruit in '08 class and missed year due to injury/academics--so his drop wasn't based on poor performance--it was based on not being in eye of "Gurus". This is best frontcourt class in country by FAR. Braswell might be the best rebounder in the III era, Monroe is going to be best shot blocker in III era--and best passing/most skilled big, and Sims might end up the best player if he stays 4 years--he's got that type of skill/talent and potential. There isn't one thing Henry can't do on the court--and he's only 17 years old. He's a superior shooter to Greg, he is 6'11, he can pass, block shots, rebound, and is much more mobile then people give him credit for. If were to get into McDonald's All American game, I think he would shock some fans/gurus as to how skilled/talented he truly is. Throw in Jason Clark--and this is best rebounding class Hoyas have had since Mourning/Turner/Mutombo group. I don't mean this to be a total wise-ass, but how can you say these things with such confidence? Don't you live in Minnesota? When have you ever seen these kids play? I understand (and appreciate) that you and a few others follow the recruiting stuff much more closely than I do, but I am curious about what you are basing your opinions on (strongly held as they typically are). Here's your response: 1. I follow recruiting--which means I take time to watch when players who are being recruited by Hoyas are playing games (digital cable has advantages) as does the internet--where you can see games on premium websites or when posted up free for viewing. 2. In following recruiting--you also get clips of players over course of their careers, and basketball is easiest sport to guage who can play/who can't. I get a list of who Hoyas are targeting and make certain anytime I can see them play--I do. As for the comments--you can have Terrence Jennings. The guy will be 21/22 years old next year as a college "frosh". Athletic? Sure. Comparisons to Amare Stoudemire are laughable. Samardo Samuels is a beast and will be a fine player. I'm not disrespecting him or his game at all. I just love the talent Hoyas signed and how they fit what is needed. This upcoming frontcourt is more of what III has in mind. They are multi faceted players who can shoot facing, post, and pass. They are superior rebounders to anyone on this team now--they can get balls out of their area, they block shots, and are much more equipped prior to entering college in terms of skill set to enter the program. It'll take time to adjust to Big time college ball--but it does for all Frosh. Chris Braswell played against Scoop Jardine and Rick Jackson in his last game at DeMatha. He had 20+ rebounds and while his offensive game was rusty--he has shown flashes of dominance against great competition. Balla has it nailed in terms of Chris needed to remain focused-but that won't be a problem at GU. He'll be pushed to be a better player and he's the best post offensive scorer in this Hoya class in terms of variety of post moves and being near basket. He's a great rebounder too. He's shown a good jumper from baseline as well and have seen him flourish in AAU/Camp events. He was MVP of Reebok Camp's Underclassmen Game for his team--and that camp was loaded. Greg Monroe--everyone has seen him play--but not with the type of teammates he'll have in college. He brings every dimension you would want in a PF in Hoya offense, minus a consistent jumpshot. That is why he chose the perfect program to hone that aspect of his game. Henry Sims--the most underrated player in the country right now. I believe Sims is going to be a McDonald's All American--and most people will bash the selection who haven't seen him play. This kid is an outstanding player. Only thing he needs to add is strength. He, like Monroe is playing a year "up" as he's only 17 years old. So you give me a skilled frontcourt that goes 6'11, 6'10, and 6'9 and 2 of the kids are only 17 years old now into their SR year--that is scary room for physical improvement. They'll fill out naturally while working out as others--it just adds to the development process--as you saw with Jeff/Roy at Georgetown. My track record in regards to evaluating players on this site is known--and if you disagree fine. I'll stick to what I think after watching kids play and just share it with board. Louisville has a great program and those players are good fits--I wouldn't trade their frontcourt for Hoyas though. Different styles and the kids III got fit what he wants to do. If you choose to think otherwise--no problem--but I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by these kids come next Summer in Kenner.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Feb 8, 2008 8:57:53 GMT -5
I just knew the long response was coming. Again, thanks to the recruiting gurus for the insight and for taking the time to see these kids play and posting about it. I, for one, reallly appreciate it.
BTW, maybe I'm nitpicking, but my ideal player would be Beasley. Is there another around?
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balla
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by balla on Feb 10, 2008 11:57:34 GMT -5
Borrowed this from LamontMorgan's post. It underscores how good the local(DC/MD/VA) is. That is why it is fine to just take 2 in 09(Hollis, Riley). Then take a loaded local class in 2010. Riley has a nice post game, he just does not get the ball on the block for country day. If GU has a 3rd schollie in 09, it needs to go to a guard: www.teesweekly.com/hotbeds.html
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balla
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by balla on Feb 10, 2008 11:59:01 GMT -5
Lil Thompson Video. He is not going hard(which is a waste of time), so it is not away to assess his game or anything. He should be ripping the ball hard through the zone, hard jab stepping, then exploding on his escape dribble. When practicing, a player should actually go harder than game speed. Thats how players get better. He basically has perfect mechanics on his jump-shot, so he is one Hoya that will not give me ulcers in that department(LOL). But for those that have never seen him:
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chep3
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Post by chep3 on Feb 10, 2008 13:54:11 GMT -5
Saw Greg Monroe play at the Primetime Shootout yesterday. He ended up with 23 points, not sure how many rebounds but I think it was in the 8-10 region, and at least 4 assists, some of which were absolutely gorgeous. I know he doesn't supposedly have a great shot, but I thought his form looked fine, he just has a tendency to drop his shoulders back as he's coming up which makes him leave the ball short a bunch of times. He did step out and hit a 3. The only negatives I saw was that he has to be a little more aggressive going after rebounds, and he was 4-8 at the FT line. I haven't seen him before so I have no real point of comparison, but he looked to me like he's going to make a great college player. And like everything everyone has said before, his passing is phenomenal.
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balla
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by balla on Feb 10, 2008 15:58:23 GMT -5
Saw Greg Monroe play at the Primetime Shootout yesterday. He ended up with 23 points, not sure how many rebounds but I think it was in the 8-10 region, and at least 4 assists, some of which were absolutely gorgeous. I know he doesn't supposedly have a great shot, but I thought his form looked fine, he just has a tendency to drop his shoulders back as he's coming up which makes him leave the ball short a bunch of times. He did step out and hit a 3. The only negatives I saw was that he has to be a little more aggressive going after rebounds, and he was 4-8 at the FT line. I haven't seen him before so I have no real point of comparison, but he looked to me like he's going to make a great college player. And like everything everyone has said before, his passing is phenomenal. thanks Chep. How was he scoring, and how good was the competition that he was playing against?
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balla
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by balla on Feb 10, 2008 16:11:52 GMT -5
Yes Balla - Mission League playoffs are this weekend... . You've got Hollis' game pretty much pegged. I was watching Hollis play in Vegas this summer with an NBA scout buddy of mine. My buddy pegged him best. He said; 'if Hollis game stays as is, then he will be a Rip Hamilton/Alan Houston type player. But if Hollis gets stronger, more athletic, and gets sharper handles, then he can be a Ray Allen/Kobe type player'. And no he was not saying that Hollis is the next Kobe/Ray. He was just pointing out that if Hollis works on his game like those guys, then he has the ability to be that kind of player.
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chep3
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by chep3 on Feb 10, 2008 17:20:32 GMT -5
Greg was going against Whitney Young, the team of MJ's son Marcus. They have really good guards, but were not so great on inside. He scored a lot around the basket, but because of WY's pressure on their fullcourt press and on HC's entry passes, he was forced to come back into the backcourt or come out onto the wings in order to get the ball. He did a really good job of beating smaller players off the dribble and then using his size to create enough separation to finish with ease. He also had a beautiful drive where he got the ball at about 3/4 court and just pushed it up all the way to finish at the rim. He had a couple of dunks out in transitions, but did get blocked from behind by Marcus Jordan on one play. I didn't keep track of his shooting percentage, but it was ungodly. When he hit 18 in the 3rd quarter, I believe he was 7-7 at the time.
Another thing that I really liked about him is he already looks very comfortable in dealing with the double/triple teams he was getting in the post. He gets the ball, keeps it high, and calmly takes his time to get the full picture of what is going on, before making his move. Just looked very sure of himself the entire time.
Thoughts on other future BE players:
Samardo Samuels - that kid is just a monster. I hesitate to call him a kid. He looks like a grown man. He scored whenever he wanted to. Not looking forward to having to play against him next year.
Kevin Jones (WVU) - He has nice skills, including the ability to step out and hit some 3's. But he is just so rail thin, he's going to have to be a perimeter player, at least for the next year or two. He was getting boxed out easily by guys who were much shorter than him.
Maalik Wayns (Nova) - Either this kid was just on fire yesterday or he can really shoot it. He has good court vision but threw a lot of passes that were just too difficult to catch. Decent off the dribble, but I wouldn't say he looked super quick to me.
Lamont Jones (L'ville) - Lights out shooter
Tyreke Evans (possible) - Not very impressed by this guy. Settled for the 3 all day long. The one time he did decide to take it to the basket, he got there with ease. But he ended up being way too easy to cover for someone with his obvious skills.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Feb 10, 2008 17:46:45 GMT -5
I watched Lance Stephenson play last night--he was the smartest player I saw all day/night. He needs to watch his attitude on court towards his teammates--he would show them up when they wouldn't catch a pass, etc... but man could this kid play-he knows how to play and can score at will--but he would hit open man. Made one of the best passes I've ever seen--and his teammate wasn't ready--but it was there. Wrap-around behind back pass from left wing beyond 3pt line to post man under hoop and it should've been an easy layup/dunk. He single handedly beat Rice--which has 3/4 D1 players--including UConn's Kemba Walker--who is very solid/good player.
Stephenson needs to go to the right program--both on/off the court. He'll succeed on the court--but needs to understand he's so talented that not everyone will be at his level. Off the court--he needs someone to teach him accountability.
It was amazing seeing a 16 year old understand the game so well and how to play-when to take over--and when to hit open man. He answered every run Rice made at Lincoln with big play and he is one of the smartest players I've seen--really has high basketball IQ.
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idhoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by idhoya on Feb 10, 2008 21:18:19 GMT -5
balla,
Hollis looks slim, but not skinny. Kinda has a Tupac type of frame in that he's slim, but cut/toned.
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balla
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by balla on Feb 11, 2008 0:16:04 GMT -5
The camera adds 10-15 pounds(LOL). Hollis is skinny now, but has the frame to easily add muscle.
It will be interesting to see if Tyreke Evans is selected to the McDonalds game. I can NOT see Wootten or Wooden allowing Evans on the team(if they still have the same clout). Evans is going to skate on any accessory to murder charges, but that does not change what happened.
Lance Stephenson is a heck of a talent, but I have no idea where he ends up. I know he took the SAT a couple of months ago. UNC has cooled on him, even though coach Robinson still calls. I see Lance ending up somewhere like Indiana, WVU, L'vill, Memphis, or kansas.
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