balla
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,059
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Jeff!
Feb 21, 2008 10:29:40 GMT -5
Post by balla on Feb 21, 2008 10:29:40 GMT -5
most of your points are valid, but to say he will never be the scorer that Gay is...is a stretch. No it isnt...even if Green wasn't in Durant's shadow. On the offensive end Gay just flat out has a higher ceiling than Jeff and always has. That's not a knock on Jeff...Gay is just a seriously talented guy. A lot of players have a higher ceiling than Jeff. That does not mean much in the NBA. Raw talent is only part of the equation. Hard work and consistency is what separates players on the NBA level. Way early in the process for either to be considered elite over the other.
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Jack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Jeff!
Feb 21, 2008 10:40:05 GMT -5
Post by Jack on Feb 21, 2008 10:40:05 GMT -5
At the risk of going far afield from the main board (particularly given that the quote below was already posted in the NBA thread in general sports), I am speaking up for the NBA too. I had lost interest a while ago, but was starting to pay attention again the last few years, and moving back to Boston at the same time as KG now has me staying up way past my bedtime to watch the end of a thrilling (but unfortunately losing) Celtics at Golden State game last night.
Of course the style of play in the all star game is garbage, but there is some very exciting ball going on out west (9 very good teams) and between the Celtics, Pistons, Cavs, and Magic the Eastern semi-finals and finals will be great too. The trades made in the past few weeks only add intrigue for the stretch run, and the regular season will matter late in the year for a few Western Conference teams just trying to make the playoffs.
And now, the aforementioned quote, from internet celebrity/whipping boy, but undeniable NBA fanatic Bill Simmons:
So I honestly don't chalk up people here not supporting the NBA to that unmentionable deeper issue- on a Georgetown message board of all places I would never make such an assumption. I do believe the "image problem" for most people here is a (misguided) belief that the NBA doesn't play defense or play as hard as college, or just the fact that people's favorite team is Georgetown and they have no similar attachment to an NBA franchise. That's understandable, and I will never care as much about the Celtics as I do about the Hoyas, and I would be less interested in the NBA overall but for the Celtics revival. But I do hope people give the NBA more of a chance, and not just to watch Jeff Green's awful Sonics teams, but to see basketball played at its highest level by the best teams. There are some great games coming up- Celtics at Suns Friday night is just a start.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Jeff!
Feb 21, 2008 11:37:40 GMT -5
Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 21, 2008 11:37:40 GMT -5
I got down on the NBA as well -- I think three or four years ago there were 2-3 watchable teams in the league if you didn't have a team to root for.
Now I can watch a game including the Warriors, Sonics, Trailblazers, Suns, Lakers, Mavs, Spurs, Celtics, Cavs, Pistons, Hornets, Nuggets or Jazz and enjoy it, even if I'm not going to watch it all the way through.
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jgalt
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,380
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Jeff!
Feb 21, 2008 12:19:48 GMT -5
Post by jgalt on Feb 21, 2008 12:19:48 GMT -5
the months edition of espn the magazine is devoted to the problem of the image of the NBA, there are many article on espn.com from the magazine if you want to read it. even MJ thinks that the players are responsible, and for all reasons thinks its because they come out too early and arent mature enough
anyway lets get back to jeff
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Jeff!
Feb 21, 2008 12:21:08 GMT -5
Post by RDF on Feb 21, 2008 12:21:08 GMT -5
As one of the fans who LOVES NBA basketball, I can share and know I'll get support from the other NBA fans (MCIGuy, Jack, VCJack, AussieHoya, etc.) that a few things have helped the league return to more enjoyable viewing for "casual fan" that most of us were clamoring for years:
1. Scoring/Showing Skill of players. The argument I've had against Hoyas system when they wait for "perfect shot" against getting good shots up--goes here, only it was more confusing given that NBA is stage for best basketball players in the World. People who casually enjoy the game and follow it to the bone--love seeing talent and scoring. I appreciate great defense-but it's only great defense when you can limit a player/team who can score. If a guy is a 38% FG shooter and you are "holding him down" in a 70-68 game--is that really great defense?
2. More "STARS" on teams. Most of us who love NBA ball grew up in the Magic-Bird era where you had STACKED TEAMS--and a bunch of stars on teams--not the 1990's--early 21st Century approach of "Star Centered Franchise...." where 1 great player was surrounded by mediocre/average guys and parity existed. Now you have teams LOADED with NAME STARS--KG, Ray Allen, and Pierce, Nash, Shaq, Amare, Carmelo/Iverson, etc.....and it's good for the league. It's not where it used to be in terms of loaded teams--but it's getting there and part of that is due to talent pool starting to grow due to superior international talent. Expansion hurts every sport--but NBA is seeing more global talent come in and ready to play at highest level--so it's increasing talent pool despite having more teams. That means more interest eventually--but also better basketball/deeper teams.
3. Rivalries--you can't have casual fans enjoy a sport unless you have some hatred/rivals that peak your interest. Miami-New York didn't cut it for me and I loved the old Hoyas and NBA--but those games sucked. When you have teams who really dislike each other--Suns-Lakers, Suns-Spurs, Celtics-Pistons, Warriors-Jazz, Mavs-Suns, Mavs-Spurs, Cavs-Pistons, it creates more excitement to people who enjoy the "Theater" of sports. Having those teams being able to play just enchances it more. Instead of guys throwing up bricks and fouling every 3 seconds-you have shot making, games decided by the skill of the players, and chance to see the best in world do their thing on biggest stage.
4. It's not happened yet--but you saw a glimpse of it last year--better CBB--name recognition with "STARS" entering NBA. Kevin Durant/Greg Oden will be the pioneers of this helping the game and it could lead to NBA pushing for 2 years of CBB requirement. Fans can follow guys--the College game has more talent is better for kids having to go to school, and they make a following/name for themselves, and are more prepared to not only play, but also draw interest from fans who have seen them play in games other then HS All Star games or hearing about them/seeing them in clips come Draft time. The guys who have been successful had to back it up on the court--and LeBron, Kobe, KG, Dwight Howard, etc...all EARNED their status or are earning it.
The arguments against NBA ball--will always be there. It's "boring for 3 quarters...."--"they don't care..." they make too much money...but the reality is--they are extremely skilled and make game look easy--and some don't like that. I personally enjoy it. An NBA court looks small due to the size of the players and their speed is insane. The skill is tremendous, and it makes the game look easy.College guys are as fun for me to watch-but for a different reason. I love basketball--but acknowledge the games are as different as can be, and that is why I love it.
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CaliHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,188
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Jeff!
Feb 21, 2008 16:10:57 GMT -5
Post by CaliHoya on Feb 21, 2008 16:10:57 GMT -5
Looks like Jeff will get plenty of minutes and shots (hopefully) now. After trading away Kurt Thomas yesterday, the Sonics apparently just traded Wally and Delonte West (in part of that huge Cavs-Bulls-Sonics) deal.
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tal1286
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Non-national Restaurant Chains!
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Jeff!
Feb 21, 2008 20:46:49 GMT -5
Post by tal1286 on Feb 21, 2008 20:46:49 GMT -5
I felt the same way about the NBA for a while, but recently (past 2 seasons or so) I began watching more games. I guess following Jeff and AI has spurred my interest, but I have been watching and enjoying other games (Sun-Lakers last night, for example). Sure there are some bad teams and there is some bad basketball out there, but if you catch a game between 2 good teams, you'll see some good basketball that is fun to watch. I really think the NBA has turned the corner on its image problem, also. That's pretty much how I feel. the suns/lakers game last night was awesome to watch. I really enjoy watching players like Kobe and Nash play basketball. However it sounds, I feel really lucky that I got to watch MJ play for the Bulls (I grew up in Chicago) as well as Kobe. I feel like if you like basketball, you would like watching the best players play. The reason the whole "The NBA sucks" argument annoys me is that the points get repeated endlessly without any real thought. As an example, people often claim that the NBA sucks because it's too much of an individual game. Setting aside that among the best teams in the NBA, that just isn't true, I would argue that in many cases college is too individual a game. Look at Kevin Durant last year, Michael Beasley this year, Carmelo several years ago. Yeah, they all had supporting casts, but their teams were pretty much 1 man shows. Also, as far as the argument that the NBA is boring to watch, can you imagine how godawful some of the games we've been in this year (vs. Nova, for example) must have been to watch if you weren't a fan of either team? Don't get me wrong, I love college basketball, and I'm not trying to start an argument that has been had before but I like the NBA also and I feel like people trot out the same old tired arguments. It just kind of annoys me.
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Jeff!
Feb 22, 2008 0:10:32 GMT -5
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Feb 22, 2008 0:10:32 GMT -5
I think the problem is for a lot of people it's hard to get emotionally invested to a pro team where's there's no real sense of connection. I think a problem is that there are so many games that an individual game doesn't matter for the most part. It's hard to watch a trivial game where at least the sterotype is the player aren't really trying.
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Jeff!
Feb 22, 2008 1:26:37 GMT -5
Post by strummer8526 on Feb 22, 2008 1:26:37 GMT -5
Jeff had a NICE put back dunk in the 4th quarter against Portland--should make SC's top 10. And he got some credit for a TOUGH inbound pass under pressure late in the game.
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Jeff!
Feb 22, 2008 1:28:55 GMT -5
Post by JohnJacquesLayup on Feb 22, 2008 1:28:55 GMT -5
Jeff played well in the Sonics loss at Portland tonight. The early ESPN box has him with 13 pts on 5-10 shooting, and 9 rebounds. I watched the second half and he had some very nice plays, and played some solid D. His follow-up slam coming off an offensive rebound is highlight reel worthy for sure.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Jeff!
Feb 22, 2008 2:59:44 GMT -5
Post by RDF on Feb 22, 2008 2:59:44 GMT -5
www.SUCKYSONICS is down one "w" with Wally gone. Now they need to dump Watson and Wilkins. Man those two stink. If anyone watched the game--the end of First Half sums up how Earl Watson is not only inferior as a pg-but has no purpose being on the court. Truly a travesty the good fans of Seattle must pay to see this clown get run on the court.
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balla
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,059
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Jeff!
Feb 22, 2008 3:13:28 GMT -5
Post by balla on Feb 22, 2008 3:13:28 GMT -5
You are right RDF, but I luv what Sam Pressy is doing longterm. Plus they do not care what the Seattle fans think, since they are gone after next season.
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balla
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,059
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Jeff!
Feb 22, 2008 12:31:12 GMT -5
Post by balla on Feb 22, 2008 12:31:12 GMT -5
#5
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Jeff!
Feb 22, 2008 12:38:07 GMT -5
Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Feb 22, 2008 12:38:07 GMT -5
Good Lord! Where did he come from, the half court line? Shades of the putback against BC last year.
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kchoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Posts: 9,934
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Jeff!
Feb 22, 2008 13:04:50 GMT -5
Post by kchoya on Feb 22, 2008 13:04:50 GMT -5
Two things: 1. I love Kevin Harlan - kind of like Gus Johnson for the NBA. 2. That play started by Green making a nice feed on a bounce pass to the low post (to Wilkins???).
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kchoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Posts: 9,934
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Jeff!
Feb 22, 2008 13:06:27 GMT -5
Post by kchoya on Feb 22, 2008 13:06:27 GMT -5
You are right RDF, but I luv what Sam Pressy is doing longterm. Plus they do not care what the Seattle fans think, since they are gone after next season. I agree. With the Kurt Thomas trade, I think Presti ended up getting something like 3 first round picks in the trades the brought Thomas to Seattle and then sent him on to SA. All the more reason for Soncis fans to be Editeded over ownership screwing the city by planning to move.
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jgalt
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,380
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Jeff!
Feb 22, 2008 13:26:19 GMT -5
Post by jgalt on Feb 22, 2008 13:26:19 GMT -5
that put back is very similar to the one that he had in summer league this year, very beautiful I think the problem is for a lot of people it's hard to get emotionally invested to a pro team where's there's no real sense of connection. I think a problem is that there are so many games that an individual game doesn't matter for the most part. It's hard to watch a trivial game where at least the sterotype is the player aren't really trying. this is the problem i have with the NBA (i really have no opinion on the other complatints that people have). i follow players in the NBA not team; jeff, AI and agent zero. if they have good nights then then i am happy, but their team winning or losing doesnt really matter to me
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Cambridge
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Canes Pugnaces
Posts: 5,304
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Jeff!
Feb 22, 2008 17:55:55 GMT -5
Post by Cambridge on Feb 22, 2008 17:55:55 GMT -5
The best part is that he dunked over his own guy, Collison. His face is priceless when he realizes Jeff is about to soar over him.
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SEAHoya
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 126
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Jeff!
Feb 22, 2008 19:38:22 GMT -5
Post by SEAHoya on Feb 22, 2008 19:38:22 GMT -5
Perhaps the most interesting thing I noticed in the box score was the fact that Jeff led the team in minutes, at 37:46. Assuming that continues, it should be good for his development...
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Cambridge
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Canes Pugnaces
Posts: 5,304
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Jeff!
Feb 22, 2008 21:07:58 GMT -5
Post by Cambridge on Feb 22, 2008 21:07:58 GMT -5
I just rewatched the game on tivo. Jeff not only played almost the entire game, but he played at 110% the whole time. At points it looked like he was the only guy on the sonics running. He definitely is the only one besides Collison who even pretends to play defense. And he has a good knack for being in the right place to gather up rebounds. Hell, even on some of the improbable circus shots Durant made, there was Jeff trailing him and boxing out under the hoop. It's like he has evolved his game to shore up the shortcomings of his teammates. If the fates stick you with a bunch of low percentage gunners, trail the shoots and grab the board. Keep up the good work Jeff.
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