JT3 so far

[Deleted]

HI Guys!!

I am a Princeton and Georgetown Med grad, so I am a fan of both teams.

I was curious what you guys thought of JT3 so far.
One characteristic you are going to see with JT3 in the future, is that his players will get better. This is not always the case with other coaches. The best big man in the Ivy League is Judson Wallace. When he came to Princeton he was a bench player. He wan't even listed on Hoop Scoops topp 500. By his Junior year he was a dominating player in the Ivy League (he would start for almost any major team).

I am glad you are giving him time. It looks to me that the futre is bright for the Hoyas. I had a chance to see the Hoyas play Illinois. the once the young players get familiar with the system you are going to see the Hoyas move up in the Big East.

Jerry

[TBird41]

I definately agree with you that JT3's players improve. Take for example, Jeff Green-in the Temple game he looked lost on offense and now we're ready to canonize him. (Not necessarily wrong, just a little early).
The other thing I noticed is that when the Hoyas press, it's not a layup line like the press was last year.
Now, all he needs to do is get Ray Reed under control

[SFHoya99]

Jerry, we're honeymooning right now. I think a few folks were worried that he'd be too much like the late half of his father's career, but I'm not sure how any can be disappointed so far.

His one recruit that came in -- as a walk-on -- has been fantastic for a freshman pg.

The team lost to Temple badly, but has won every game since, with the exception of the #1 team, who we played as close as anyone has.

The team has an offense. We're not used to seeing "plays" or "passing."

The team is shooting much better.

He makes an effort to contact the fans and seems to understand PR a little bit.

We'll see what happens when we have a disappointing loss -- in a game we absolutely expected to win. Some folk will turn, I suppose. But most of us gave Esherick quite a bit of time while he was showing a lot less than Thompson has in just six games, so I think the fanbase as a whole will be patient.

[the_way]

JT3 is more Pete Carrill than he is John Thompson Jr. Craig Esherick was more JT than JTIII. JT's interest of coaching in the 90's, except for the Iverson years, was fading as time went on. And Esherick thought he could just keep that same level of play, and keep his job as long as he graduated players and ran a clean program. JTIII is more fundamentals, and with some emphasis of offense as well as defense. JT was all defense, very little, predicitable offense, think Baltimore Ravens as an example. JTIII is serious about defense too, but its more balanced with the offense as well.

I think what we got with JTIII is not only a credible coach but a great coach. The future is bright for this squad.

We hang with Illinois for about a half, and then lost. But, Illinois is 10-12 players deep, we ran out of gas with our 7-8 man rotation.

We lost to Temple, who played formally ranked # 1 Wake Forest all the way to the buzzer. First game of the season, but also first game of a new regime, new coach, new attitude. Things take time. I think JTIII is on the verge of buidling something great here, that we have been missing for over decade and a half.

[SFHoya99]

Yep, the_way. I just have to keep telling myself that all the Princeton posters mentioned that it usually takes over a season for the offense to really get moving (at Air Force, or Northwestern). In just six games, it's been neat to watch, but it is nice to know this isn't the finished product.

[YB]

Again, _way, I agree completely.

Wow, if we're not careful this might become a habit!

[TBird41]

You could tell w/ Esherick that he didn't really have a sophisticated offense. When Sweetney was here, that was fine-he had the post presence to create open shots for the other players. Of course, no one ever consistently stepped up to claim the role of the #2 star and hence the problems.
Last year, however, was a lot worse w/ Esherick. Without a Sweetney (or even anyone besides an ok PF in Freeman) in the middle the offense was a joke. And it never seemed like anyone knew what was going on.
JT3 is different. I cannot emphasize how much more disciplined the team looks. They move on offense, they get open shots, they involve everyone on offense, they aren't prone to go on wild, out of control drives (except Reed-though he did look better against San Jose St.) and their defense is a lot better. Some of this is talent, but most of it is coaching.
After 6 games, the only disappointment is Temple, and that was the first game running a complicated offense (and it showed).
The Davidson and Illinois games were pleasant surprises, but the real questions will be answered in Big East play. I've been saying all year that a successful year for this team is to be an NIT lock, .500 in Big East and no losses to teams like the St. Johns (or Va Tech) team that Esherick's squad lost to last year.
Next year we can dream about NCAA possibilities. This year is about reasonable expectations, improving and turning the program around. So far, JT3 has succeeded.

[Hoyasaxa20]

Granted this is probably not what everyone had in mind, but there is a broader effect that JT3 is having which deserves some praise. The positive vibe on campus and the up beat press lead to more applications and higher alumni donations. People are genuinely excited about our program again. That makes a big difference for current students and young alum. In addition to what he has done on the court, I believe that JT3 deserves some credit for everything else that he brings to the school.

[TBird41]

Hoyasaxa20 said:

Granted this is probably not what everyone had in mind, but there is a broader effect that JT3 is having which deserves some praise. The positive vibe on campus and the up beat press lead to more applications and higher alumni donations. People are genuinely excited about our program again. That makes a big difference for current students and young alum. In addition to what he has done on the court, I believe that JT3 deserves some credit for everything else that he brings to the school.

HoyaSaxa20 makes a really really good point. Even w/ a good recruiting class coming in, there was no positive vibe around Esherick. He was widely percieved as being a hack around campus.
JT3 is seen as a winner-as Megafan's signature says-half father, half future. And when you're rebuilding, you need that positive energy for the rough spots you're bound to hit (or even if you don't seem to be progressing very fast-not a problem for JT3 so far)

[the_way]

You are right TBird. Esherick also symbolized the old regime. The school need a fresh start. Things had become stale. I did not want to see Craig go, but if JTIII was his replacement then I'm all for it. I think he is an upgrade. No slighting Craig, but Craig is a good assistant coach, loyal,good recruiter for the head coach, will do everything you ask, and support you every step of the way. However, when it came to Head coaching a basektball team, his weaknesses clearly showed. We have seen this before all the time, good assistants who don't cut it as head coaches in basketball, football, etc.

I think JTIII is a coaches coach, and a fine leader of young men developing into manhood. Plus JTIII is of this generation, he understands the players of today and the fans of today. Things are on the up and up. I wouldn't be suprised if we upset a couple of high ranked teams this year in the Big East.

[DFW HOYA]

the_way said:

Esherick also symbolized the old regime. The school need a fresh start.

I think within Georgetown this is viewed as a fresh start, but outside the gates a lot of people have expressed that "hiring another Thompson" suggests it's still the same old environment that his father was a major part of. It's not like Georgetown brought in a Rick Majerus or a Mike Davis with no ties whatsoever to the place.

Beyond Craig and the assistants, the staff and administration of the department is still there, so it's not like there was a seismic shift in the program, at least to the outside view.

[YB]

Agreed, everyone on this post.

As an aside, isn't it nice to have a few reasons to be unabashedly excited about G'town hoops again?

Who doesn't like a young but up and coming squad?

[Cambridge]

amen yb, amen

[the_way]

DFW Hoya, I really don't care what the "outside" thinks anyway. Its what WE think. WE are Georgetown. Not the Feinstein's, Andy Katz, and other lowlifes of the world who know nothing about basketball but how to spell the word. I think JTIII is a better coach than Mike Davis. What has Indiana done lately, with his "great" recruiting classes. Majerus, is a great coach, but he said himself he would only coach another 8 years. I think JTIII is a gem. We are lucky to have him. He will be here for a long time, and we will be successful.

[DFW HOYA]

the_way said:

DFW Hoya, I really don't care what the "outside" thinks anyway. Its what WE think.

The point was not comparing other coaches. The point was that JT3 represents more of a generational change than a revolutionary one, maintaining the best of what was built in the past two coaching tenures rather than starting from a new legacy unrelated to what had been built before.

Internal to Georgetown, that is seen as a clear positive. Outside of Georgetown, it was not a message that was recceived by everyone. An editor at a ND web site told me up front that "What Georgetown needed to do with this hire is go out and get the best guy they could find that represented a clean break from the JT era... the perception is that they went the easy route and were more interested in appeasing JT [Jr]. than finding a coach."

We can clearly and passionately argue otherwise, but there are still people at other schools who don't see the distinctions between father and son.

[Cambridge]

Majerus certainly carries a lot of weight in the basketball world...

He certainly gets a round...

I'm sure he could've filled JTjr's shoes and then some...

He would have made a nice foundation when it came to rebuilding our program...

but in the end I think it's clear the Chicken-Burger Madness one two punch would have taken his life in less than three months on the job...

[YB]

I've been a fan throughout the past 3 coaching regimes. JT3's style and methods are vastly different from either of his two predessesors, no question.

I mean, I don't know if, in the end, he'll be successful- but you can't say he just represents continuity, because he doesn't.

[Deleted]

Thanks for the responses, Guys!!

Just one admonition. Let's keep our expectations reasonable. It is going to take a few years. As the Hoyas improve, so will recruiting.

As one poster correctly pointed out. This sytem takes time to fully digest.

I am excited about our team!! I think the playwer are too.

Jerry

[Dhall]

To those who argue that we needed a clean/dramatic break from the past, I'd argue the following:

Georgetown has only 2 recruiting advantages over other major D-1 programs: (1) we are a better academic insitution than most of them and (2) we have a tradition of winning/TV appearances/NBA players that most of them would love to have.

Since most kids don't care about item (1), then we're in a BETTER position with JTIII than any other coach out there because he is the only one that could have linked us to the tradition (other than Ewing himself).

I'm thrilled he's here. He's a great coach and he ties us to our past by virtue of his name (if nothing more).

[SFHoya99]

Dhall said:

To those who argue that we needed a clean/dramatic break from the past, I'd argue the following:

Georgetown has only 2 recruiting advantages over other major D-1 programs: (1) we are a better academic insitution than most of them and (2) we have a tradition of winning/TV appearances/NBA players that most of them would love to have.

Since most kids don't care about item (1), then we're in a BETTER position with JTIII than any other coach out there because he is the only one that could have linked us to the tradition (other than Ewing himself).

I'm thrilled he's here. He's a great coach and he ties us to our past by virtue of his name (if nothing more).

He was the perfect hire, once you consider some the the University's (self-imposed) restrictions.