HOYAPLAYA
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
IT'S TIME FOR A RUNNNNNNN!!!!!!
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Post by HOYAPLAYA on Dec 10, 2004 8:38:57 GMT -5
or do we have a little bit of overreacting on this board? I love FLHoya's recaps because they seem to be pretty even-handed and he seems to have a good understanding of the game. Some of the other posts that I've read this morning are unbelievable. At this point, i've read the following:
1.) We should bench Owens, Reed, Cook, and Bowman 2.) That Green should have played more minutes. 3.) That Hibbert should have played more minutes 4.) That Owens has never shown anything on the court 5.) That Bowman could learn something from watching Green and Wallace 6.) That Crawford and Guibunda should be getting more PT even though we have seen nothing that justifies it.
I'm sure there have been more, but I don't want to go back and re-read all of the posts. My question is this: At what point do fans let the coaches coach and stop thinking they know more than a coach who is a professional and watches these guys every day in practice.
Could it be that JT III recognizes that Owens is struggling but thinks he can get more out of him by trying to keep him in the starting lineup and boosting his confidence? Or that he thinks Ross is more valuable to the team in the 6th man role? Or that Green, a freshman, picked up two early fouls and was a little over anxious so as long as the game didn't get out of hand it was better to let him sit and watch than risk him picking up his 3rd foul in the first half? Or that Hibbert lack of PT in the second half had more to do with the score and needing more offense than how he played in the first half? Or that Bowman fell victim to what usually happens to a team's best player when they play a more talented team (more attention from the defense, trying to do to much, teammates waiting for him to make the play)? Or that Crawford and Guibunda just aren't ready to play at this level (more PT could do more damage than help in the long run)?
Hell, I could be completely wrong but I think we have a lot of panic move suggestions based on a lost to the #1 team in the country by 15 points.
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 10, 2004 9:59:59 GMT -5
This board tends to overreact often although some of the suggestions made by other posters regarding lineup and playing time are sound ones.
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hoyabinx
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,043
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Post by hoyabinx on Dec 10, 2004 10:04:19 GMT -5
or do we have a little bit of overreacting on this board? I love FLHoya's recaps because they seem to be pretty even-handed and he seems to have a good understanding of the game. Some of the other posts that I've read this morning are unbelievable. At this point, i've read the following: 1.) We should bench Owens, Reed, Cook, and Bowman 2.) That Green should have played more minutes. 3.) That Hibbert should have played more minutes 4.) That Owens has never shown anything on the court 5.) That Bowman could learn something from watching Green and Wallace 6.) That Crawford and Guibunda should be getting more PT even though we have seen nothing that justifies it. I'm sure there have been more, but I don't want to go back and re-read all of the posts. My question is this: At what point do fans let the coaches coach and stop thinking they know more than a coach who is a professional and watches these guys every day in practice. Could it be that JT III recognizes that Owens is struggling but thinks he can get more out of him by trying to keep him in the starting lineup and boosting his confidence? Or that he thinks Ross is more valuable to the team in the 6th man role? Or that Green, a freshman, picked up two early fouls and was a little over anxious so as long as the game didn't get out of hand it was better to let him sit and watch than risk him picking up his 3rd foul in the first half? Or that Hibbert lack of PT in the second half had more to do with the score and needing more offense than how he played in the first half? Or that Bowman fell victim to what usually happens to a team's best player when they play a more talented team (more attention from the defense, trying to do to much, teammates waiting for him to make the play)? Or that Crawford and Guibunda just aren't ready to play at this level (more PT could do more damage than help in the long run)? Hell, I could be completely wrong but I think we have a lot of panic move suggestions based on a lost to the #1 team in the country by 15 points. Hahhaha, I feel like that is a good assesment of what people have to say. I think the reality of the matter, if I gather correctly is this Starting lineup should be Wallace Cook Owens/Ross Bowman Green with Hibbert getting about 15-20 minutes somewhere and no one else coming off the bench. Is that accurate? I think a lot of people are worried that our freshmen arent getting a lot of playing time because we thought that all of them would contribute. I for one fell into this same hole after the Penn State game, but I realized that they are just freshmen, they have plenty of time to develop.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
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Post by the_way on Dec 10, 2004 11:05:30 GMT -5
This is message board. Since when do message board posters think any coach, good or bad, know how to coach team and evaluate players better than us.
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HOYAPLAYA
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
IT'S TIME FOR A RUNNNNNNN!!!!!!
Posts: 1,329
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Post by HOYAPLAYA on Dec 10, 2004 12:34:53 GMT -5
This is message board. Since when do message board posters think any coach, good or bad, know how to coach team and evaluate players better than us. You're right! What was I thinking? I just think there are better ways to respond to a decent showing against the #1 team in the country than to hit the panic button and call for all of these changes. I have no problem with opinions but some of these posts act as if they are based on facts and very few are. I will post my opinion of this team and what we need to do to be successful in Big East play on January 1 and invite everyone to do the same. I think it could turn out to be a great thread, if we try to look at the entire pre-big east season (11 games) as opposed to one game against the #1 team in the country.
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HOYAPLAYA
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
IT'S TIME FOR A RUNNNNNNN!!!!!!
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Post by HOYAPLAYA on Dec 10, 2004 12:38:23 GMT -5
This board tends to overreact often although some of the suggestions made by other posters regarding lineup and playing time are sound ones. I'll agree with you that some of the suggestions weren't bad, but the one that we should sit Bowman really got under my skin. Weren't we just praising him earlier in the week for his play against Penn St. Also, his statistics this year are looking pretty good (however his worst 2 games have come against the best 2 teams -Temple and Illinois) so I'm just waiting to see what everyone has to say the next time he drops 25 and looks like the most complete player on the floor. I might not have to wait long with San Jose St. on the schedule for tomorrow.
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ShimmyJr
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 319
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Post by ShimmyJr on Dec 10, 2004 13:01:36 GMT -5
HoyaPlaya -
The point here with Brandon is, in my humble opinion, that he still forces the issue in too many situations and does not play within the offensive scheme - sure he is talented - and sure he will have those 30 point outputs against DE State - but when you are playing top competition, I hate to see players try to take issues into their own hands, unless those players are elite playmakers (Steve Francis, AI, etc.) - Bowman is NOT an elite player in college basketball
As for Big Roy, I would like to see him get some more playing time - sure he is awkward and very raw, but he is big and i think he could be a big asset even though his offensive ability is quite limited right now.
What people are glossing over is how porous our defense was last night - need better guard play - granted IL has the fastest backcourt we will see all year, but cannot have the dribble-drive-dish penetration for easy buckets like we did last night - it is what ultimately killed us
As for Sportscenter - screw them!! Get off the easy schedule bit - that's crap!!! (thanks esh!) Take a look at Syracuse please or Boston College - i mean it is just ridiculous - hate when people make uninformed judgments based on inaccurate perceptions...i mean, at least when other people do it
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 10, 2004 13:08:42 GMT -5
The defense was the issue for me last night.
Offensively, I thought a couple things were issues -- one, the Illini guards were more talented and pressured us like no one else -- we should adjust to that over time. They focused on stopping Brandon and did. We couldn't take god advantage of down low -- even Jeff was not spectacular down low; many of his points came outside or driving.
Defensively, though. We chose to pressue them outside. I think that rather shocked them, and they continued to shoot mostly contested threes.
Weber adjusted, and we continued to press out past the three point line. None of our guys can guard any of their guards, at least not without backing down a bit. They'd blow by, Green/Hibbert/Bowman would react, and the second rotation would be late as the dish went to Powell and Augustine for the easy play.
We really never adjusted to that. I can only assume it wasn't something we've had time to prepare for.
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YB
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,494
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Post by YB on Dec 10, 2004 13:14:08 GMT -5
ESPN actually overall praised our sched this season. Praised us for taking on Illannoying and not St. Leo's or Hawaii-Hilo.
They mentioned Citadel and Howard and Nfk St., but gave us credit for Temple, Ill, and PSU.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Dec 10, 2004 13:14:50 GMT -5
Hoyaplaya - I think that we should bench the entire lineup and start the following players:
Sed Izzo (running the point) Crawford Cornelio The Student Fan of the Game (in favor of Diaw)
I think that would solve all of our problems. I should know - I almost have 15 posts.
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,208
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Post by hoyarooter on Dec 10, 2004 14:10:18 GMT -5
Post of the young season by Hoyaplaya. Now I didn't see the game, but I've been looking at some of these threads and just shaking my head. What I particularly can't get over is the criticism of Bowman, who just two days ago was being praised for playing probably the best game of his career (and while Penn St. is no powerhouse, they aren't Elon, either), and Cook, who purportedly spent the game dribbling away the shot clock and then putting up off balance heaves. The guy was our leading scorer in the first half, shooting 4-5, and took all of two shots in the second half! Did Bowman have a poor game? Sure. It happens. Did he attempt to take over the game and shoot 3-20? It doesn't look that way.
So how did Beauty and the Beast go?
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HOYAPLAYA
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
IT'S TIME FOR A RUNNNNNNN!!!!!!
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Post by HOYAPLAYA on Dec 10, 2004 16:09:32 GMT -5
Beauty and the Beast was actually pretty good. Let me restate that, it must have been great compared to having to watch Brandon Bowman and the rest of the players who should be benched according to this board. My little guy was a little overwhelmed by all of the action but he was laughing and clapping most of the time and then fell asleep at about 9 PM. The show went from 7:30 - 9:30 and I was starting to get tired at the end myself. I realized last night how screwed I am once my kid starts realizing that the those items that daddy says are just decorations are actually for sale.
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HOYAPLAYA
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
IT'S TIME FOR A RUNNNNNNN!!!!!!
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Post by HOYAPLAYA on Dec 10, 2004 16:31:03 GMT -5
HoyaPlaya - The point here with Brandon is, in my humble opinion, that he still forces the issue in too many situations and does not play within the offensive scheme - sure he is talented - and sure he will have those 30 point outputs against DE State - but when you are playing top competition, I hate to see players try to take issues into their own hands, unless those players are elite playmakers (Steve Francis, AI, etc.) - Bowman is NOT an elite player in college basketball As for Big Roy, I would like to see him get some more playing time - sure he is awkward and very raw, but he is big and i think he could be a big asset even though his offensive ability is quite limited right now. What people are glossing over is how porous our defense was last night - need better guard play - granted IL has the fastest backcourt we will see all year, but cannot have the dribble-drive-dish penetration for easy buckets like we did last night - it is what ultimately killed us As for Sportscenter - screw them!! Get off the easy schedule bit - that's crap!!! (thanks esh!) Take a look at Syracuse please or Boston College - i mean it is just ridiculous - hate when people make uninformed judgments based on inaccurate perceptions...i mean, at least when other people do it My problem with that statement is that Bowman took all of 8 shots last night in 36 minutes. This combined with the fact that he was tied for the best assist to turnover ratio last night (I don't count DJ's 1 to 0 since apparently the 1 happened on about the first play of the game) leads me to believe that he couldn't have been that out of control. Also, I think he might have missed more than 4 minutes if he was playing that far out of the offensive system. I want to see Big Roy play more also, but there will be a time and a place. I think down by double digits to the #1 team in the country requires your best offensive team on the floor and right now I don't think JT III thinks that includes Hibbert. I'm only guessing based on my knowledge of the game so I could be wrong, but it makes a lot more sense than some of the things I've read today.
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HOYAPLAYA
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
IT'S TIME FOR A RUNNNNNNN!!!!!!
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Post by HOYAPLAYA on Dec 10, 2004 16:35:05 GMT -5
What people are glossing over is how porous our defense was last night - need better guard play - granted IL has the fastest backcourt we will see all year, but cannot have the dribble-drive-dish penetration for easy buckets like we did last night - it is what ultimately killed us What people are glossing over is that this is the #1 team in the country that was up on Gonzaga by 31 at the half and Wake Forest by 21 at the half. I could only imagine how porous their defenses were compared to ours last night.
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ahoya3
Member
Former hoop club president and 22 year season ticket holder
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Post by ahoya3 on Dec 10, 2004 19:12:01 GMT -5
Your implication is correct. The defense was actually quite good. We pressued the threes but their guards were obviously so much more talented, quick, unslefish and physical than ours that when they started to penetrate it was a clinic. Bowman for the most part played within himself. Once or twice he got frustrated by the great defense of Powell and Williams and took off on a wild drive; he was immediately brought over and talked to by the coach. Green was impressive but he got pushed around when down low; that will change over the years as he matures.-he is so talented. Wallace is no walk on; best point we have had in a long time. Hibbert is clumsy but I love him competitiv nature; got to a lot of balls. He is going to be a big plus down the road.
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