HOYAS--Illinois RECAP/NOTES

[FLHoya]

*****
They're number 1 and we're not.

Illinois looked every bit of their #1 national ranking in the final 25 minutes of tonight's game, which was all that was required to put away the confused and often helpless men in white.

Georgetown wasted a solid 1st half defensively tonight, struggling to maintain their consistency for 40 minutes of basketball, gradually failing to produce the key run-stopping buckets that kept us hovering at a moderate lead in the first half.

22-17 was the limit of what we could handle tonight--thereafter a devastating twenty-four to 3 run killed any hopes for a big upset win.
*******

Anything between the stars look familiar?

The above excerpt, with the words changed to account for the opponent and margin, is pretty much verbatim how I opened my recap to the game we played against Pittsburgh late last season at the MCI Center (they were #3 at the time.

A similar story went down at the MCI Center tonight--so much so that the margin of the scoring run that doomed us was almost the exact same (I had it pegged as "twenty-something" to 3 for the Pitt game).

In a lot of ways, it was the same game.

But in a lot of ways, we're not the same team--and that makes a big difference.

First of all, that Pitt game took place on February 24th. It was the last home game most students saw last year, and one of the last we played. Today's December 9th, and this was our 5th game of the season.

We started two seniors in the lineup against Pitt last year, and were at the tail end of the tenure of a Coach and his offensive system. Tonight we started two freshmen in the still-learning phase of a new coach's system.

We tanked the last ten minutes of the Pitt game, mailed it in. We fought and pressed until the buzzer tonight, creating a "meaningless" turnover with 4 seconds to go down 15.

To put it plainly, we played better and harder tonight than on 2/24/04, or any of last season for that matter.

And here's something encouraging too. Here's the end to the opening from the Pitt game recap:

"But as the air finally let out for the Hoyas on the floor, so too did the unexpected good cheer and noise from the GU student section, who ended their regular season at MCI every bit as deflated and confused as the players they were cheering on. It's been a long year, and I suspect by the aura on the bus on the way home that many students have been worn down and are just eager for it all to finally be over."

Here's what I'd write tonight:

"But as the air let out for the Hoyas on the floor, an unexpected amount of good cheer and noise remained in the GU student section, who stayed until the end and gutted it out just like the players on the court did. It's been an interesting year so far, and I suspect that many of the kids on the bus home--once they get over the sting of a 15 point loss, will be energized and ready to go again at McDonough this Saturday."

San Jose State is going to be slightly easier than Illinois.

I'll say this--Illinois is real good. There are times when even as an opposing fan you chuckle to yourself or nod and think "wow, that was some play they just ran."

I did that about 10 times tonight.

I've watched a little of Illinois this year--some of the Wake game, a lot of the Arkansas game. I had something of an expectation going in--seeing a team that ran all over the building at will and could score from anywhere beyond the arc powered by a backcourt that's scary in the almost everyone who's a college basketball fan knows all three guys right off the bat kind of way.

So what did we get?

L. Head 13 pts, 3-5 from 3
D. Brown 7 points, 1-4 from 3 (3-9 overall)
D. Williams 8 points, 0-2 from 3 (2-7 overall)
COMBINED: 28 points, 4-11 from 3, 10-25 overall

and...

Roger Powell 19 pts on 8-11
James Augustine 15 pts on 6-10
COMBINED 34 on 14-22.

The guards had 16 assists--so you know where most of those went.

Reason #1 Illinois won tonight and why they are #1 is they're more than a backcourt that shoots. The ball movement is quick, it's crisp, it puts pressure everywhere on the court. I liken watching them on offense (combined with us on defense) to the basketball version of the chorus to "Bombs ofver Baghdad." We kept them largely in check in the first 10 minutes of the game b/c we could keep up and recover decent enough on their perimeter movement and deny penetration. They're perimeter shots did not fall early (they shot 5-15 from 3 for the game, not really up to their par).

But you've got to be so disciplined to keep up with them, you're bound to makes mistakes, especially as a young team. Tonight they set us up with Dee Brown if I recall making a lot of good penetration moves (we really had nothing to say about their penetration in the second half no matter who we put on them). Then the last 7 or 8 minutes, the pick and rolls and centers sliding to the basket were out in force. In truth, they made Ray Reed and Jeff Green look bad several times on the same move. But it's talent vs. inexperience and they can pick you clean.

Two cases of the above phenomenon were when on basically consecutive possessions in the 2nd half, I believe it was Dee Brown shot faked a 3-pointer and Jonathan Wallace and then Ray Reed went for the fake and did the akward "oh crap" jump as he blew by.

Inexperienced is a word that describes the offense during the course of that 24-3 run. You could tell the entire game our offense was laboring, just in terms of what we could and could not do in basic terms. Whenever Jeff handled the ball, it was farther towards the perimeter. The on-the-ball pressure on the GTown guards was more consistent and out further towards half court. And yes, Illinois is more talented than Penn State on the ball. The backdoor moves were not there (the only decent conversion I saw was one Owens threw to Bowman for one of the game's first baskets.)

It was just labored--a lot of possessions got to 5-7 secs on the shot clock and we were still at square one. Too many chucked up shots and forced ecords on risky passes. And while Illinois set up their offensive clinic in the latter phases through dribble penetration, we remained largely on the perimeter until late. It was going to take a Davidson--plus shooting night for us to prevail the way this game went. And we shot 6-19.

Like I've said, I don't care how many we make from game to game--a three pointer is still a low percentage shot. You need something else there. And we weren't given it tonight.

Even as we pulled to ahead 22-17, I noticed some of the shot making was a little...well not something you could sustain. Jonathan Wallace made some nice deep jumpers, one on the break. A few threes and a long 2 for Ashanti. But nothing where I was like "Wow, we're running the offense well." More, "Wow, I can't believe all those shots are falling." Same thing happened against Pitt--actually, they self-destructed with TOs more than anything else in that first half.

By contrast, the effort and the results were clearly there on our defensive end in the first half. Good recovery speed, decent switching, in general a good job of forcing Illinois into less-than-desired shots. Coupled with the cold three point shooting and we had something going for a while.

Tempo was mostly ours at that point--Illinois had a quick 14-2 run at the end of the half and the score was still only 31-24, not run and gun stuff by any means. There was this constant tension throughout the game on the "to run or not to run" question. Illinois wanted to in the first half, couldn't do it much. And there were several cases where we had a maybe 2.5 on 2 kind of break--maybe a 3-on-2 if you really push it--and we'd always back out. The guard behind the play directed this often--I have a feeling we had some gameplan going in on controlling the clock and tempo--no need for a track meet when you have to work so much on defense every possession.

I think one of the things that symbolized the way that tension broke down for us was at one point when we were at or near the peak of our lead, Ashanti airmailed someone trying to throw a breakout pass on a fast break. Just a symbol I guess.

A lot of people likely saw this one on the television, so I'll leave my general comments at that. Others can debate the offensive and defensive gameplans if they want.

I'll stick with my feelings from the beginning of this recap--this was one game with a clear talent gap. But despite that, what we showed on the court in terms of effort at times makes one think that there's some real potential for this team that we couldn't have imagined on, say, February 24, 2004.

(below...Player Evals and Nongame stuff)

[FLHoya]

PLAYER EVALS

Ashanti Cook: I guess this is a good point to note the following stat lines for us--only 11 assists for 24 FGs, and no one had a positive AST/TO ratio. There was a musical chairs thing going on tonight in the backcourt--all of the major players at the guard position saw signficant time. But of all of them I think Ashanti saw the fewest actually running the show. Most of his points were very early on in the game it seemed, and he definitely cooled and/or was taken out of his game in some way. It seems clear to me that Wallace is gaining more and more of the PG minutes, while Ashanti is moving to more of a SG type thing, which is fine--for me, I've kind of resigned myself to him being the type where 1 out of 4 games or so he's going to have the lights out shooting night, and the rest kind of blah. Davidson in the second half looks like the 1 there.

Brandon Bowman--It was a struggle tonight. The temptation whenever this happens is to bring up Bad Brandon, but I chalk this up to the stagnating offense and Jeff Green's second foul early on in the first half. Roy Hibbert can't fill in the Jeff Green role in the offense to it's full capacity, so Brandon gets stuck with a lot more ball handling responsability in this game. Lot of stuff from the top of the key 3-point area. And as the shot clock is winding down tonight, a lot of the time it's Brandon with the ball forced to be the creator here. This is where he usually gets into trouble--he might be able to take one guy off the dribble and he often abuses traditional PFs. But he cannot take it through 3-4 guys worth of traffic. Illinois wasn't gonna play the Penn State kind of game that let Green and Bowman have their way. Too much throwing stuff at the backboard and hoping for the foul.

Jonathan Wallace--I'll give him this, he has the capacity to make some difficult shots. There are two kinds of difficult--the pro-style pull ups on the fast break, and the threes off curls or from deep impossible angles and range. He showed a little of both. In time, he will be one of the most reliable shooters we have, especially in crunch time. He's got to be a little more under control on offense when running the show. Whether it was the defensive pressure or the pressure of the shot clock, JW seemed to be playing about half a step too fast for his own good much of the time tonight. Now, defensively any freshman like him is going to be overmatched against the Illini backcourt. I can't see how this will be anything but constructive for him however. He plays his heart out, got beat several times, but he stays with it. Guy you really like to have on your team.

Darrell Owens--Man it's hard to look at those stat lines. I can't really explain this at all. I mean, that assist was beautiful and he's the one guy I've seen execute the passing element of the backdoor offense the best. But he's an enigma. It's to the point where even when he's on the court I have no recollection.

Jeff Green--8-13 and 20 points tonight. He starts having a bunch of stat lines like this, he's going to get some attention in the conference (he's got a legit shot at averaging 20 ppg for the week given our competition Saturday). Another combination of mature post moves and some impressive range and degree of difficulty on his jumpers. There's a difference between him and a guy like Mike Sweetney though. With Mike, it was a given that the offense was oriented around him in the post--that was the mantra, get him the ball, let him go to work. Green can do the post stuff, but it has to be a calculated strategy rather than business as usual. He's good at being a pivot man for ball movement in our normal offense. But that means he's not on the interior working the post. And without Roy on at the same time, that means a lot of the time we have no interior threat to keep teams honest if we're not in the inside-Jeff plan. We weren't until late in the game, and he benefitted with a ton of buckets. Same when he went off against PSU after their run. Contrast that with how Illinois used their penetration to set up the pick and rolls and cuts for their centers. Green sat much of the first half after getting two fouls early, and it clearly showed--though we stretch a little on the lead with Roy in, the difference in how we could run the offense showed.

(ETA: Unfortunately, his aggressiveness played against him a number of times in the second half. Jeff was victimized on pick and rolls and centers sliding off their screens and such to the basket a large number of times. Illinois seemed to be running a clinic at his expense. Now as the person sitting behind me rightly brought up, that may have been because the guard in question wasn't staying with the Illinois guard and Jeff had to rotate. Maybe Illinois was just quicker with their execution. But it was a money play for them.)

Ray Reed--(shrugs shoulders)

Ramell Ross--He is the one Hoya guard the entire night and practically the entire season who has been willing to take it to the goal. He must have a good first step too, because he frequently gets some serious spacing. The only weakness there is that he's not a strong finisher so he misses layups and can have shots altered. But I will join the Ross fans from other threads in calling for him to see more playing time (24 minutes tonight) because I think he adds an additional dimension with this ability to go to the hole that we're missing. It's fine to run our structured offense, but there's got to be a Plan B, C, and D if Plan A falters. Ross among the guards is the only one giving us a penetration option right now.

AKD and AF1: Really only token minutes, so I'll leave it at that.

Roy Hibbert: Yeah, I think there's some optimism to be had here. Roy will show you some things from time to time that really make you take notice. A nice lazy hook again tonight and another dunk--it amazes me but at least once per game Roy miraculously ends up uncovered in the paint. But he's going to need some more control for sure--evidenced by one play where he nabbed an offensive board (outjumping Brandon); odd play where the only UI defender was way out of position. Roy just needs to gather himself, keep the ball off the floor, turn and he can dunk at will. But he gets jittery, and actually puts the ball back up almost blind as he's turning back to the goal, and it clangs off the glass. Give him some time and some polish and he'll become a more regular contributor and a more realistic option within the offense--he acquitted himself okay when he was in the Green role, but unlike Jeff, you know Roy isn't gonna attack the hoop.

Your referees: Burr, Kitts, and Hillary. And it was a Big East style of game, contact generally was allowed in large doses. It's a Big East crew, what do you want we should go fetch Teddy V? Crowd was not into several of the calls made against GU. There were to be fair a few examples of bad ones (Green's third foul was a clean block for one). But here's a general rule: seems one is much more likely to earn a foul when he has beaten his man by penetrating or by receiving a pass in scoring position, forcing the defense to react. He is NOT when he takes the ball head down into traffic of three men and throws his body around and shoots wildly. A lot of the "bad calls" can be explained thusly I think.

(below: Nongame observations)

[FLHoya]

NONGAME OBSERVATIONS

--I was asked explicitly at the arena to address this point in my recap, so here goes. There was a noticeable markup in the level and intensity of security at the MCI Center tonight. There seem to have been three incidents that caused particular unrest among some:

1. At a point, let's say around 6:10 or so, there were about 40-50 people waiting at the gate typically used by students for entrance into the MCI Center. This is inside of the building, at the point before the ticket taker area where the "rope" is laid out. A member of the MCI staff at one point began walking in front of the rope asking students in line to present their bags for checking. Seemed standard enough, since they hadn't set up that check point at the doors to the arena yet. However, having done this, 5 minutes later a guard informed us (in the middle of the fight song) that we would all have to exit the arena a re-enter, presumably b/c we needed to all re-pass through security. This in the end caused the assembled to turn around and walk out and walk through, many of them (myself included) never actually passing through the bag check, just "exiting" the door and walking back in. The effect of this seemed to be the shuffling of the lines, and some unpleasantness over who would be able to reclaim positions in line.

2. There was a discussion over the placement of the couch in the front row of the student section it appeared (between students and the MCI security). I was not in on this conversation, nor did I hear any specific account from those who were. I did hear the ushers initially mention it as I went to my seat.

3. One and sometimes two MCI ushers were placed at the bottom of the stairs one uses to enter the bottom half of the student section, at the intersection of the front row and the drum section of the Pep Band. Once the students filled the front row (14 I kept hearing as the number of those students in question), each of their tickets was marked with a number on the back. Thereafter, only those students with marked tickets were allowed to enter the front row area. During the course of the game, a large number of students (I'd say upwards of 30-40 to be honest) were prevented from entering that area. There was also policing to a lesser extent of students trying to enter the second and third rows (I sat in the aisle seat of Row 3 and was privy to most of the conversations between student and usher during the night). Any student that approached the 1st through 3rd row area was met by the usher, who asked to either see their ticket or if they were sitting there. If they were not sitting in the area, they were told to leave. There thus also seemed to be a prohibition on students entering the front rows to talk to other students seated there, as well as doing so in the aisles near the front.

The ostensible purposes for this protocol as I interpreted it seemed to be two:
(1) prevent a situation where more students were in a row than the number of seats. This is often caused by late arriving students attaching themselves to groups of friends already there or by sneaking into a row without a seat to their name.

(2) To prevent over-crowding in the front row, where an additional "rope" (the black things) was placed in front of those students to limit their range of movement towards the court and the Illinois bench.

I'm going to leave it at that--merely presenting the facts of the situation as I understood them. My understanding is that several students had strong opinions about the way security was handled tonight--and this includes both those who showed up early and made the front rows and those that attempted to sneak in later on and were denied.

I will not voice my opinion on the matter in the recap. If this particular set of circumstances causes some discussion from other students, I will be happy to add my two cents however.

--In other news, tonight your national anthem was sung by Rick Astley. No wait, sorry, that was Dr. Vince K.

--The student section apparently achieved an overflow tonight, meaning that we filled all of the space allotted us and students were then having to be placed elsewhere in the arena. It was a late arriving crowd--I looked during the Anthem and one entire section was empty.

--Unfortunately, the Illinois fans showed up, dominating the three traditional road opponent corners plus a further section (110/109 area I think) and good chunks of the upper deck. Attendance was at 12,401, and I'd say maybe...a 50/50 split you think? To the credit of the home fans, many of them were far more animated than normal and did a pleasant job.

--From the Hoya Blue cheer sheet thing: "Tonight Georgetown University proudly welcomes [three people] as the first ever Hoya Hollerz leading the cheers."

I must have missed this, because honestly I didn't see any cheer-leading in practice. There were people with those cone shaped megaphone things, although I contend having been near one that they were actually making the guy LESS understandable--the MCI Center is a sound vacuum--noise does NOT travel.

It's striking to see the entire front of the section cheering in unison, complete with the fist pumping parts of a cheer, turn around, see the first few rows of the top section doing it, and the back 1/3 doing nothing. And the worst part is they're looking right at us too--and they DO NOT get it. I'm not a fan of the "turn around during opponent intro" thing, but my God you'd think when several hundred people in front of you are all doing the same thing, some motioning you to do it, you'd get the hint.

There's got to be better coordination, you still here multiple cheers at the same time, and we're still running a badlands-style every cheer for itself thing. I have no idea what's going on.

--An enjoyable moment of the night were the gentleman hiding out in the two stalls next to me in the bathroom mixing adult beverages and carrying on a conversation about...how cool it was to be mixing adult beverages in a stall. Although judging by the conversation, seemed like they were mainly "mixing" various cheap beers. Now I am well aware MCI beer is way overpriced (doesn't stop the GU student section), but really, if you're gonna go with the smuggling of alcohol, shouldn't you up the ante a little and go with something a little more exotic?

See you guys on Saturday--make this trip back to McDonough a good one. Those games are really good ones for atmosphere if you do it the right way.

[GUHoya07]

The rope in front of us was complete BS!!!! There was absolutely no need for that. We never actually go onto the floor and there was no reason to do that. In all honesty, we are a very reasonable student section compared to some of the things students do at other schools, yet they continue to treat us like crap. I had to deal with some biaaatch lecturing to me and calling me son when I tried to explain to her that this is college basketball, not the NBA. They also warned me that I would be thrown out if I didnt stop talking and said that there is no one I can contact about the issue. Now, Im going to stop typing before I let out a whole lot of profanity and get edited by Dan McQ.


AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

[hoyanick]

more non-game observations:

I arrived at the student section at the end of the national anthem, and I was only able to find seats for myself and my 3 friends in one of the last 5 rows of the section.

(Not that I wanted to be that far up - I left on the first bus but, after spending 45 mins in DC traffic, my friends HAD to eat at fuddruckers first - though that place is GOOOOOD)

After 10 minutes, the entire student section was filled. That was SO impressive and a good sign for Georgetown. The team is generating enough interest to get a student section sell-out on a study-night before finals in December, which is great, regardless of who we played.

Positives aside, we need to get the cheers down. First of all, we NEED a tall person to hold up a large, legible sign that indicates which cheer is about to start. This shouldn't be too hard. THe Illinois sections were able to start up chants, in a call and response manner, despite their distance from each other.

Secondly, we cannot continue to fade in the second half. The second half featured about 1/4 of the cheers we had in the first. Just because we are down by 14 doesn't mean we can sit back, relax, and allow opposing fans out-cheer us. That was embarassing.

Finally, I started to really really dislike, to the point of big-east-rival-hatred, the IL players and fans. Their little jog around the half-court line, circle around center-court, slap each other's asses, and jump around routine as they came out for the second half was stupid and classless. Also, a couple orange-clad fans made their way into the Gtown student section at the end of the game in order to loudly cheer the players as they jogged into the tunnel - and stare down hoya fans. Where was security for that?



Anyways, good job hoyas. Time to take some frustration out on SJSU.

[CAHoya07]

Man, hoyanick, if you thought the 2nd half of this game was embarrassing, you should have seen the Pitt game last year. Now THAT was embarrassing.

I'm not too displeased with our performance today. Now we know the things we need to work on:
- Playing TOGETHER: more set plays, motion, and general crispness on offense. Sometimes our offense still looks like last year, standing around for 30 seconds and throwing up the 3 - especially during the Illini run late in the 1st half.
- Getting to the FREE THROW LINE: no FT attempts entire 1st half. Recurring problem this year, we MUST get more physical, and we must get it from somone not named Jeff Green.
- Bulking up our interior D: WAY too many easy lay-ups for Illinois, espeically in second half.

Yes, we have a long way to go, but instead of the deflated feeling I got the last time we played a #1 team (Duke), this year I feel a lot better. I'd like to say we hung with them even though we were down 15-plus much of the 2nd half. I hesitate to call it a moral victory, but it shows that we'll definitely be able to hang with the likes of 'Cuse and UConn this year.

Some individual player viewpoints:
-Ray Reed is just difficult to watch. 0 pts in 60-something minutes so far this year. Out of control most of the time he had the ball.
-Ramell Ross' solid, agressive play is giving more credence to the him starting over DO argument. I for one hope JT III benches DO for Ross against SJSU to send him a message.
-Bowman disappeared this game, we need him to be more of a leader in our offense.
-Jeff Green is an absolute beast. Period.

As for student section, great turnout, filled to the brim. My guess why many arrived late is the bus situation from McDonough, which can sometimes be downright frustrating. We still need to work on more unified cheering, many times several cheers would be going on at the same time. Illini fans were able to do it, so should we, although I still have no idea WHAT they were cheering . Megaphones were a start, but maybe people holding signs denoting the cheers is the next step. We were fairly loud though, I think we made our presence felt - we made a good brief highlight on ESPNews if you haven't caught it yet. That doesn't mean we can't get better, but it's a start. I expect us to get better come BE play, just like our team. ;D

We are getting closer and closer to a homecourt advantage at MCI, the place was packed, albeit with many Illini fans. I like how they shut off the upper section, it makes the atmosphere MUCH better. I just hope we don't lose any ticket revenue for those seats up there, because I'm sure we were over 12,500 people for more than just the Duke game last year. Ideally, those upper sections should be overflow seating for when the demand is beyond this new capacity.

Good call on those pom-poms on seats in parts of the arena: the student section, three sections opposite the benches, and I think the young alum section, which looked good, might I add. Slowly, Georgetown fans are showing up around the arena and getting louder, we need to keep this up. We can't let ANY fans outcheer us.

MCI Center staff... I'm not sure I want to touch this one. Sure, some of them are complete a-holes, but most of them are just trying to do their jobs. I'm pretty sure we are all still able to have a good time in spite of them. If they start throwing people out for BS reasons, THEN I think we have something to complain about. Otherwise, let's just live with it and cheer as if they're not there.

And 007, FLHoya is right: in the front row, we DO get a lot more freedom than any student fans at any university would often have.

Sorry for the for following FLHoya with another FL-esque recap, I didn't mean for it to be this long, but sometimes once you get going you just can't stop. GO HOYAS!

P.S. Looking forward to the time we can go absolutely nuts and storm the court a la UMass tonight. I feel our time is coming...

[Eurostar]

biggest problem for me was jeff green sitting for 11 minutes in the first half because of 2 fouls. in a game that we have a realistic shot at winning fine.. but in a game when we have 1/20 shot at winning at best, you have to go all out. jeff needed to be out there 40 minutes

[Joe Hoya]

They were chanting "I-L-L...I-N-I". The ticket office has to do a better job of spreading the opposing fans out, and putting them higher up, so that they can't get these unified chants going. It makes sense for them to have some of the section behind their bench, but all four corners (as it appeared tonight)? Kinda lets them surround us and drown us out or muddle our own cheers.

Jon Wallace and Jeff Green need to improve their stat lines in one category: minutes. No good reason, save for fouling out, that these two shouldn't be on the floor at all times. I saw Wallace directing guys frequently, so he isn't afraid to get up in the face of an upperclassman.

Ashanti Cook seems convinced that he cannot make a shot unless he is at a 135-degree angle from the basket. Not every shot needs to be a fall-away. But he made a few of them, so he'll probably keep it up. So if he keeps up the basket-making, I guess it's okay.

Ray Reed has been about as helpful as Omari Faulkner this season (and Omari already graduated). RaMell Ross brought the ball up towards the end of the game and was dribbling just to the right of the lane about 23 feet from the hoop, and Ray was standing on the wing, staring at him. Standing there and staring, as if he led the nation in three-point percentage and it was RaMell's duty to give him the ball. RaMell yelled something at him and he finally (and clearly very reluctantly) ran off and probably fouled every guy along the way. Over two-plus years I have never seen less from a guy who has shown alot in previous games (if that makes sense).

I think, instead of benching DJ, coach should consider sitting Brandon Bowman down. I can deal with a guy having a down game, but tonight, when his team needed him against the best in the land, he flat-out didn't show up. Sit him down, let him watch Green and Wallace and even Ross and maybe he'll learn something about playing under control. Hopefully he'd get some motivation out of it instead of sulking. Brandon seems to have gotten the coach he wanted, so he darn well better be able to take some punishment from him.

Also, don't know if anybody mentioned or noticed this, but former Hoyas assistant Ronny Thompson was in attendance tonight.

[GUHoya07]

a lot more freedom than any student fans at any other university would have?? Is that wig cutting off the circulation to your brain? I can deal with limiting the amount of people who enter the front rows, because they really often are drunk a-holes who make things very unpleasant. However, that rope cutting off our mobility still enrages me. We were unable to jump around and bump chests and go as crazy as we did at the Penn State game because of it.

Buffalo Hoya and others with experience, help me out here. Calling what they do to us freedom makes me cringe. MCI Center can burn in hell.

On a more positive note, tonight I met maybe the 2nd or 3rd nice member of the MCI Center Staff in the history of its existence. He was a young local guy and mentioned how awesome Jeff Green is looking.

[Joe Hoya]

Instead of complaining about how MCI treats the students, how about showing them that they don't need to be so restrictive? By that I mean reducing the number of confrontations with ushers that we see every five minutes at every game, or people jumping up and down and screaming without starting a mosh pit just ten feet from the court?

It might seem stupid to think that this is a result of the Pacers-Pistons thing, but...this is probably a result of the Pacers-Pistons thing. Nobody wants to be the next one to have something happen at a game, and when a crowd of rambunctious, belligerent, "spirit"-charged 20-somethings is yelling and screaming just feet away from an opposing team, there is risk of an incident. And when alot of that screaming is "dum de dum dum HEY! You suck!" and other such impolite yet fun remarks, the risk is higher. Like I said, MCI doesn't want to be Auburn Hills South. They don't trust us. And frankly over two-plus years I haven't seen any reason why they should. Sorry.

[hoyabinx]

Joe said:

Instead of complaining about how MCI treats the students, how about showing them that they don't need to be so restrictive? By that I mean reducing the number of confrontations with ushers that we see every five minutes at every game, or people jumping up and down and screaming without starting a mosh pit just ten feet from the court?

It might seem stupid to think that this is a result of the Pacers-Pistons thing, but...this is probably a result of the Pacers-Pistons thing. Nobody wants to be the next one to have something happen at a game, and when a crowd of rambunctious, belligerent, "spirit"-charged 20-somethings is yelling and screaming just feet away from an opposing team, there is risk of an incident. And when alot of that screaming is "dum de dum dum HEY! You suck!" and other such impolite yet fun remarks, the risk is higher. Like I said, MCI doesn't want to be Auburn Hills South. They don't trust us. And frankly over two-plus years I haven't seen any reason why they should. Sorry.

damn, i cant wait till saturday to see what a real home court is like. Anyone have good lotto numbers?

[HoyaNyr320]

how about 1,2,10,20,32,55?

our numbers are as good as any, right?

HOYA SAXA!

[GUHoya07]

Joe said:

Instead of complaining about how MCI treats the students, how about showing them that they don't need to be so restrictive? By that I mean reducing the number of confrontations with ushers that we see every five minutes at every game, or people jumping up and down and screaming without starting a mosh pit just ten feet from the court?

It might seem stupid to think that this is a result of the Pacers-Pistons thing, but...this is probably a result of the Pacers-Pistons thing. Nobody wants to be the next one to have something happen at a game, and when a crowd of rambunctious, belligerent, "spirit"-charged 20-somethings is yelling and screaming just feet away from an opposing team, there is risk of an incident. And when alot of that screaming is "dum de dum dum HEY! You suck!" and other such impolite yet fun remarks, the risk is higher. Like I said, MCI doesn't want to be Auburn Hills South. They don't trust us. And frankly over two-plus years I haven't seen any reason why they should. Sorry.

You know what, most of the time it just seems like you are trying to be a pain in the ass and be argumentative. The whole point is that the people who are now being punished have never initiated any confrontations with MCI Staff. The way they have treated us has caused us to be angry and there are a lot of people who agree with me.

And what do you mean by mosh pit? Does this mean we aren't allowed to jump around, chest bump, give people high fives and run along the first row of students going crazy? If it does than I really wonder what you think college basketball should be like. Maybe we should all just come in dress shirts and sit quietly in our seats watching the game like corpses.

[hoyaboy1]

Joe can be a bit of a curmudgeon, but he means well. I don't think he is intentionally trying to annoy you.

I for one agree that the MCI folks (one lady in particular) have been a bit over the top recently.

[GUHoya07]

I have to admit that I didnt know the meaning of the word curmudgeon, but now that I do I'd have to say that it fits the bill. I tend to believe it's just the very unfortunate temperament of many people who either work or have worked in the athletic department over the years.

I wish we could somehow get people over in McD to realize that its not still the 80's and that things have to be done a little bit differently (actually, a lot differently). It's time to get up to speed and enter the modern world of college athletics.

[HoyaFanNY]

watching the game on yes, i could not really get a handle on the crowd, although it sounded pretty loud when we were up in the first half. here are my player evals...


green - i was very impressed with his poise handling the ball at the top of the key. his second foul relatively early in the 2nd half basically sent him to the bench for the last 10 minutes. very polished offensively, but struggled defensively on the pick and roll and with augustine in the second half. i'd like to see jeff utilized more in the post, but i'm not sure if the offense allows that since he is handling the ball on the perimter so much. it's obvious jeff will be a very good player, he just needs to keep improving offensively and work on his defense.

bowman - i won't be nearly as hard on brandon as some other people. he struggled offensively, but i think everyone struggled in one way or another. i think he needs to take the ball to the basket more when the defender is as aggressive as illinois was last night. i think the aggressive man to man gave everyone problems. lets hope it's used as a learning experience.

owens - this is the guy that everyone should be hammering. he is a non factor on both ends of the floor. often just dribbled around with seemingly no idea what was going to happen next. never looked to go to the basket. invisible defensively and on the boards. he might be better suited to come off the bench. ross is much more aggressive.

cook - very good first 15 minutes, but then he disappeared. took some bad shots that somehow went in. had some horrible turnovers. again, another player i think that needed to go to the basket to loosen up the pressure man d. played very well defensively, as everyone did, the first 15 minutes.

wallace - this was my first time seeing him play and i was very impressed. very good with the ball and poised the entire game with the heavy pressure from brown. very good mid range jumper and can certainly hit the 3. good defensively, just needs to get stronger. after watching him for the first time i can see why everyone likes him so much.

hibbert - i thought roy played a very good 10 minutes. it's obvious he has a long way to go, but if he improves his foot speed and ,obility he can be a major factor. i was shocked to see him handling on the perimeter. a couple good post moves and offensive boards he could not convert. i thought he was hacked on one, but no call. i think he needs more minutes, but the deficit in the 2nd half didn't allow him to contribute. i'd like to see him in the post more on offense.

ross - very active on both ends. took the ball to the basket a couple times with good results. i think he's a better option than owens, at the very least because he is much more aggressive on both ends.

reed - i would much rather see crawford get these minutes, but i guess ray is the only other point we have. he is out of control on offense and a hacking machine on defense. i think he is scoreless this season in something like 65 minutes. he is my new drew hall. i cringe whenever he touches the ball.

overall, i liked the new system. the first 15 minutes, the ball was moved better than i've seen in years. i'd like to see more post play and more driving to the basket though. once illinois really turned up the man pressure, our entire offense took place outside the 3 pt line. also, i would have liked to have seen nelly get some minutes at the end and crawford get more time. cook, bowman, green, and wallace can't play 35 minutes every game. they will be out of gas by the end of january.

the most important thing is that i saw a team that plays together and that is improving and learning every game. this team will have it's ups and downs, but they will be fun to watch along the way.

[YB]

First off, this was a loss- which is always depressing- but I think we can all clearly see progress.

Second, hats off to the students- they are starting to relearn how to be fans. How do I know this? Last night after I got home, I was watching the delicious UMass upset of UConn. During halftime of that game, they reviewed our game. This was one of the quotes:

"This was a good win for Illinois. To come into an atmosphere LIKE MCI CENTER and come out with a win is good for this team".

Good job, students. Alums, we have to get to work to match that.

Third, please don't rip any of our guys. They did fine. People will key in on Brandon and Green the more the season wears on. Those 2 forwards have to learn to catch the ball crisply and pass crisply if they are doubled. If they wind up with 8 assists it's just as impressive as 20 points.

We played them tough and I like the upward trajectory so far. We are indeed growing and improving each game.

This by Barker Davis on Green and Wallace:
" And Green might already be the Hoyas most valuable player. Though still somewhat raw, this braided warrior has a wider array of skills than any Georgetown player in a decade.
He's equally comfortable in the post or on the perimeter, leading the Hoyas in rebounding (8.0) but also shooting a solid 50 percent from 3-point range. He's at once a swooping athletic defender (3.5 blocks) and a solid student of the game who leads the team in assists (17 in five games).
"He wears a lot of hats for us," said Thompson.
If he and his pal Jon get some help and some seasoning, it's only a slight stretch to think one of those hats eventually will be made of Madison Square Garden nylon. "

[ColumbiaHeightsHoya]

Ross was the only player that took it to the hole. One interesting first half stat was ten turnovers, zero free throws.

It made sense for us to run our O and kill clock since they clearly had more horses then us and their guards were lightning quick. Ross identified that they were giving up drives. Owens did this once and got a reverse lay-up out of it. I don't care that he missed, we desperately need more of this.

If Bowman is to be an all BE performer like many state on this board, then he needs to take it to the hole as well and not disappear in a game like this.

[Deleted]

I think Ray Reed got as many minutes as he did because he's the only guy we have who even had a shot at keeping up with Dee Brown. Unfortunately, he had to be involved at the other end of the floor as well, and that was......well, ugly. He just doesn't seem to get the offense right now.

[Joe Hoya]

Yes, that's right, you've figured me out. I live only to annoy people.

It's impossible that someone (a student, no less) could actually believe that the MCI people are not trained by the mafia solely to bring frustration and anger to the fans. It's impossible that someone could actually think that the students could do a better job of being civil while they watch the games. It's impossible that someone could actaully still be a fan of a team but expect its fans to behave appropriately. It's absolutely, 150% im-freaking-possible that another student could actually see where the MCI people are coming from, and suggest that they aren't wrong in some of the things they do.

But I forgot that you're the world's number one Hoya fan. You're on a "whole other level", as you've said. Maybe on your level, the students can do no wrong, even if they are perceived to potentially pose a risk to the players on the court. Maybe on your level it's acceptable for 25 people to cram into a row meant for 15. Maybe it's alright for people to constantly be walking in and out of the rows, inconveniencing those of us who get there an hour before the game to watch basketball, not drink beer or have social hour. I guess it wouldn't matter to you, though, since only people who wear wigs and makeup are big enough fans to sit in the front row, and those who don't are probably sent packing before they get to bother you. I guess it would be okay up there on your level for people to get drunk and beligerent with their fellow students, just because someone says "Hey, do you mind just staying in your seat so I can watch the game?" They might as well take out the couch and replace it with a keg. But I digress; those are merely observations from over two seasons worth of trips to the MCI Center. Which is at least a full season more than you've had up on your level.

I'm sorry that I've made you come down to my level, the level of a mere die-hard. It won't happen again.