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Post by HS02 on Dec 9, 2004 20:26:58 GMT -5
As the game ended I heard the words of John Chaney in my head before the commentators even said it, "They're a young team, but played very hard". Get used to it, that's this whole season wrapped up in one sentence. If you haven't heard someone say or said it yoruself, give it time, you'll come to accept it. Unfortunately, that equals a very average season.
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MEGAFAN
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by MEGAFAN on Dec 9, 2004 20:41:17 GMT -5
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hoya4ever
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by hoya4ever on Dec 9, 2004 21:10:59 GMT -5
As the game ended I heard the words of John Chaney in my head before the commentators even said it, "They're a young team, but played very hard". Get used to it, that's this whole season wrapped up in one sentence. If you haven't heard someone say or said it yoruself, give it time, you'll come to accept it. Unfortunately, that equals a very average season. Doseofreality just changed screenname but he is right here... On the rest of the season, I would rather keep hoping.
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hoyanick
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
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Post by hoyanick on Dec 9, 2004 21:18:29 GMT -5
HS02 - you aren't being realistic when you ask us to be realistic. We just lost to the #1 team in the country by under 20 points and led the team for longer than other team had COMBINED.
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MEGAFAN
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by MEGAFAN on Dec 9, 2004 21:20:29 GMT -5
I'm surprised to see so few comments and postings after this game, but I assume that is because most of the people on this board were watching this game in person, or out at a sportsbar, etc. Unfortunately, due to extenuating circumstances, I was confined to the comfort of my own home during tonights big game. It did however look like a very lively atmosphere at MCI, and I'm curious to hear whether the student section in particular was better than ever. I was at the Temple game, and quite impressed with the Sea of Gray (grey?), but from the look/sound of things, it seemed even more alive tonight. I wish I could have been there, but I guess I'll have to make up for it by heading down to D.C. as often as possible throughout the season.
Well, there are many observations to be made from the Hoyas' first televised game of the season. Where to start? For those of you who didn't get to see or hear the game, I think that if there's any single reason why the Hoyas lost this evening (besides the fact that the Illini are one of the more complete teams I have seen in recent history), it was due to turnovers. Illinois finished with 20 assists and 11 turnovers; we finished with 11 assists and 13 turnovers. That's the game right there.
For the most part, we were able to control the tempo in the first half, partly because we kept the pace slow, but also because we didn't give the Illini chances to put up tons of points in a flash. It helped that the Illini were not hitting their shots, but this was mostly due to a strong defensive effort, especially on the perimeter, where our guards were effective at stopping penetration and open threes. Despite some early turnovers that crept in, I don't think we had any of those huge momentum changing turnovers where you miss an easy layup, give up a rebound, don't get back, and they shoot a three, resulting in a five point swing.
Of course this changed quickly, and the Hoyas were not able to sustain control of the tempo throughout the last five minutes of the first half. I thought that the break came at an opportune time, and hoped that the Hoyas could cut the Illini down to under five with a couple of good ealry possessions. The Hoyas came out kinda flat, but give credit where credit is due, in other words, the Illini "kicked it up a notch" and also benefited from some timely shooting early in the second period.
Overall, I think that the Hoyas got caught in a philosophical no-man's land. They wanted to execute their original game plan, which was probably to slow down the tempo, use up most of the shot clock, and run a motion/Princeton offense. However, they equally realized that they could score by moving the ball up the court, and also out of the post or penetration, such as with Hibbert and Ross. Also, despite the quickness of Illinois, some our players realized that they had the athleticism necessary to compete. So they were kinda convinced that maybe they could hang with Illinois, and ended up kinda abandoning the patient and disciplined approach they took.
However, rather than abandon it completely, and let the dice roll, which may have been horrific, but also would have given them a chance to get some easy buckets and force some turnovers, they would retreat back into a slow-down offense right after things went wrong. So they got no benefits from the up-tempo style (such as easy transition buckets, with the exception of a wonderful steal and dunk by Green), but on the other hand, were on the receiving end of many of the pitfall's of this approach, such as allowing Illinois to get to the rack, create on the offense boards, or get a quick uncontested shot. For instance, while it would definitely be dangerous, and probably not recommended, I was curious to see how Illinois would respond to a more pressure. However, we're all probably lucky that JT III is a wiser man than me, as from what we've seen to date, Illinois can handle pressure just fine.
I was pleased with the overall play and the coaching. In fact, I think this team will take a lot more out of this game then they will of the cupcake portion of the schedule. Also, I really think that Illinois is a strong, mature, well-coached team. Even if everything went very well for Georgetown, it is unrealistic to think that we would have been able to keep up with that trio of guards all night long. The suprising thing is that it was their guards that really killed us in terms of scoring, but rather Powell with a combination of transition baskets, slashes to the hoop and offensive rebounds. To further exascerbate the situation, Augustine, who is a deceptive but far from great player, killed us with his timely scoring.
While we were outrebounded 31-25, Georgetown could have hung in with them in terms of rebounding, were it not for getting caught out of position, the result of either playing a zone defense, or not boxing out when their quick guards broke down the defense, resulting in offensive put-backs (Illinois had 9 offensive boards.)
I don't quite know if my assessment of Bowman will be as harsh as that of thebin's who thought that Bowman stunk up the joint, but I will say this. Brandon had an off game, but Illinois must have come into this game having made one primary goal be to shut down BB. With that said, my disappointment in Bowman's game comes not from him playing absolutely terribly, but rather from him not being able to place his stamp on the game. While he didn't force himself into the game and shoot a number of ill-advised shots, he was perhaps too passive in terms of making sure that Illinois work extra hard to shut him down. To some degree, Bowman just moved the ball, and was relying upon others to make the Illinois defense pay, but what I would like to see is perhaps some more leadership from him, in terms of creating without necessarily forcing up bad shots. To his credit, he shot 2-8, and if he does have the occasional poor game, it is better that he shoots this number of shots, than go something like 4-17, right?
Other thoughts...
One thing is for sure, unless Rudy Gay pulls out something unbelievable tonight (only 5 points in the first half against MA) and on Sunday vs. Rice, I think it is safe to say that Jeff Green will at least be co-rookie of the week in the Big East. I always prefer for our rookies to earn these awards during the conference season, but in a week in which I expect us to go 2-1 (with wins over PSU and SJS and a solid loss to Illinois), that is not a shabby achievement early in Green's Hoya career.
Ross played another inspired game, and seemed to be the only Hoya who understood that it is possible to play a disciplined motion offense, but still take advantage of opportunities for penetration when the moment presents itself. At times I felt as though our team didn't test their defense enough when it came to driving the lane. I clearly understand that running down the shot clock, and slashing and cutting is the fundamental mechanism for our offense, but this doesn't mean that the creativity of individual play should be entirely curtailed. Bowman and Reed sometimes forced action at the wrong times, but I think that players like Cook and perhaps Wallace could learn from the controlled agression with which Ross made his moves.
Hibbert saw some time early, coming in when Green picked up a couple of early fouls (speaking of which, I wasn't thrilled with the way this game was called tonight - it was by no means horrible, but we definitely didn't get the benefit of many calls), and again, show flashes of what we liked about his game against Temple. However, he continued to make some mistakes when it came to rebounding, in part due to the fact that he is pretty slow, but also because of positioning. I would have liked to see Roy maybe play a little more tonight, as there was a good deal of time with no Hibbert and no Green, unless that was my imagination.
Overall, what I take from this game is more/less what the commentators observed: that this is a young team, but that they did better than most against Illinois, and that they will learn as they mature that they need to bring the highest intensity to the court for a full 40 minutes. However, was it just me, or was the over-emphasis by the commentators on Green's poor early play unjustified. I think he got two early/cheap fouls, and that prevented him from playing up to par, but I actually thought that he played well early, and that he just needed to sit due to foul trouble. This may have been a very different game if Green doesn't get that second foul so early. This is not to say that we wouldn't have lost (and Hibbert performed well in limited time), but I do think we may have been up or tied at the half had Green had the chance to play more.
More to come... GO HOYAS!!!
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Post by WilsonBlvdHoya on Dec 9, 2004 21:44:32 GMT -5
I'll post more tomorrow: my condensed version....
Differentials were essentially two: 1) Execution --especially offensively for Illinois v. GU defense (Illini carved up the GU defense in 2nd half with crisp passing, cuts and drives like a Thanksgiving Turkey!) and lack of crispness as the game wore on on the GU side. 2) Talent -- mostly in the backcourt. The trio of Illini guards is just outstanding and unselfish. But Jeff Green proved tonight that he could hang in the Illini frontcourt.
I'm actually more concerned about the d than the o. Yes, the o was ragged tonight but I was more disappointed by how many easy looks the Illini got tonight as a result of outquicking, outpassing and outsmarting the Hoyas when GU played d. III should save the tape of this game as a model/instructional tool for where the offense needs to be and how to react better defensively.
Nevertheless, a great effort by GU tonight and more coming out parties for Jeff Green....More wrap-up tomorrow....
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Joe Hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
You're watching Sports Night on CSC, so stick around.
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Post by Joe Hoya on Dec 10, 2004 1:22:16 GMT -5
HS02 - you aren't being realistic when you ask us to be realistic. We just lost to the #1 team in the country by under 20 points and led the team for longer than other team had COMBINED. It doesn't matter how much we lost by or how long we led. What matters is that for extended periods of time, we looked lost. Like, I'm talking up-a-creek-without-a-paddle-leaks-springing-bailing-bucket-just-floated-away type lost. I know it's a new offense and blah blah blah, but we can't let teams go on 21-3 runs. It's more defense than offense at times. Good defense will create enough offense to tide you over for a time while the coaching staff figures out how to make the offense work. We were good at times tonight, and at other times we were awful. No harm in that, but don't try to make it seem like a great showing.
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Post by Gold Coast Hoya on Dec 10, 2004 8:09:33 GMT -5
I saw the game last night and although pleased that we were not blown out, lots of work to be done. I can't begin to count the number of times we just passed the ball around the perimter and then took whatever bad shot was available in the last 4-8 seconds. Our outside shooters are decent, not great, but yet no real attempt to penetrate and kick the ball out for the jumper. The defense will get better but we need tons of work on developing plays at the offensive end. I would like to see Green play more at the high post facing the basket. He has good moves and should be able to create space for the outside shooters if he tries to penetrate.
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1803
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
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Post by 1803 on Dec 10, 2004 9:55:25 GMT -5
Last night was my first chance to watch this team, and I have to say that I liked what I saw.
Over the last few years I thought that bad shot selection was a major problem with the Hoyas. Last night we were patient, and for the most part got good looks at the basket. There is one point that we should all agree on, in college basketball, an open three pointer by a guard or small forward is a good shot. I am not saying it is the only shot to take, but it is the one that you have to pull the trigger on. I do not know what our percentage was last night from distance, but for the most part they were good looks, and that is all that you can ask.
I thought we were patient, and I liked the tenacity from Green and Wallace. Green struggled early but kept with it. We are going to see good things from him this year, and it is going to be him versus Rudy Gay for Big East newcomer of the year.
As for the Illini, they are simply a cut above the Hoyas, and they deserve their number 1 ranking. They moved the ball incredibly well, and their interchangeable parts are a model of what JT III hopes to have here someday.
I expect to win 6 to 8 Big East games, and the ones we lose should be competitive. This is an exciting time to be a Hoya fan, and I am looking forward to see how it goes in Hawaii.
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