The Tradition of the Georgetown Big Man

[BigMike]

There have been many great centers in Georgetown History but whenever someone talks about them they only say Ewing, Mourning and Mutomobo.

Othella, Jahidi, Rueben and Wesley have all tried and failed to be that fourth name.

Will Hibbert reach that level?

[superan]

he already has.

[EasyEd]

What about Sweetney, the best, in my opinion, offensively in college.

[SFHoya99]

Ewing, Mourning and Mutombo are highlighted because of their pro success.

I don't think anyone here would rank Mutombo's college career as better than Craig Shelton's or Mike Sweetney's. And putting Jahidi and Wesley in with Ruben and Othella doesn't seem quite right, either.

[Madgesdiq]

sfhoya99 said:

Ewing, Mourning and Mutombo are highlighted because of their pro success.

I don't think anyone here would rank Mutombo's college career as better than Craig Shelton's or Mike Sweetney's. And putting Jahidi and Wesley in with Ruben and Othella doesn't seem quite right, either.

I rank Mutombo's college career higher than Sweetney's. Mutombo became a national figure in college because Georgetown basketball mattered at the time, and he was blocking shots at an unprecedented rate in front of a sold out Cap Center. Zaire flags waved from far reaches of sections of the upper deck that gathered dust during Sweetney's time at the phone booth, and "Rejection Row" was featured on Sportscenter nightly. Mutombo trancended college basketball. Most pedestrian college basketball fans couldn't identify Sweetney in a lineup of 5.

[Dhall]

Dikembe was picked #4 overall when he came out - he was a star. It would be great if Senior Day next year included Patrick, Alonzo and Dikembe standing at midcourt to congratulate Roy (and the others).

[metaphor]

It really depends if you are talking just about centers (I assumed you are). If so, then Sweetney, who is really a forward who played pivot sometimes, does not count. For that matter, neither does Othello, who actually played the pivot full-time (whereas Sweetney really played pf) but b/c he was really '6"8 with a body of a power forward at best. Finally, Mutombo, Mourning, and Ewing were all all stars in the pros. Not the case for Sweetney and Othello.

Hibbert on the other hand is a true center, I think he will be an all star in the pros, and he played center on a team that made the final four, something only patrick did and whoever was in the pivot in the final game against Wyoming.

[HoyaLingus]

On strength of song alone, yes.

[bubbrubbhoya]

I think part of this tradition is that not only has the upper echelon of Georgetown big men been great, but they have also stayed four years. Even though he may have made the best decision for himself, Sweets no doubt hurt his legacy at Georgetown by jumping after his junior year. That we have these centers who have had such incredibly successful NBA careers but also were smart/loyal enough to remain on the Hilltop through senior year is something that Hoyas fans can hang their hats on, and it's big part of the reason that we look at these players as representative of our strong tradition.

[prhoya]

Sweetney and OthellA are not all-time greats. They are just below that tier.

[SaxaCD]

I think Sweetney belongs for sure. His bad luck to play for some of the worst Hoya teams in recent memory, but he was a great player, and on a better team would have gotten much more national recognition.

[guru]

Hibbs is the fourth face on our Mt. Rushmore already.

Sweetney was a fine player who was forced to be the focus of the offense because of the utter ineptitude of the teams during the Esherick Error. Had Othella been on those teams, he might have put up similar numbers. I'd put Sweetney and Othella together on the second tier with Michael Graham and a few others.

[guru]

Hibbs is the fourth face on our Mt. Rushmore already.

Sweetney was a fine player who was forced to be the focus of the offense because of the utter ineptitude of the teams during the Esherick Error. Had Othella been on those teams, he might have put up similar numbers. I'd put Sweetney and Othella together on the second tier with Michael Graham and a few others.

[SFHoya99]

Othella was a very good player. He didn't have half the low post ability of Mike. He's a completely different player but he never could've scored 20 ppg facing constant double and triple teams.

Basketball is a team game. Mike had nothing to help him -- and he's always going to be underrated by most of the population because of that.

[lichoya68]

roy is with those guys already and wil get faster adn smother and more consistant the big man tradition is STAY go hoyas go roy enjoy your senior year YES YES YES A REAL SEVEN FOOTER YUP

[GIGAFAN99]

sfhoya99 said:

Othella was a fine player. He didn't have half the low post ability of Mike. He's a completely different player but he never could've scored 20 ppg facing constant double and triple teams.

Basketball is a team game. Mike had nothing to help him -- and he's always going to be underrated by most of the population because of that.

I actually think Sweets is OVERrated. I know that's not popular but to be honest it's a lot easier to put up huge numbers on a bad team.

Note the top 5 scoring average leaders of all time (Iverson, Sweetney, Floyd, Barry, and Page). Notice anything? The three who put up huge numbers on bad teams aren't exactly world beaters at the next level. The two who almost exclusively put up their numbers on great teams became NBA all-stars. I look at Sweets a bit like Vic. Both had great freshmen years on very good teams averaging a nice 12+ and playing their role well.

Then everyone left and their numbers exploded. And the fanbase said "If they just had someone else." Well yeah, but they wouldn't be averaging 23 a game with someone else either. So I think both those guys were very good players but to be a GREAT player on a GREAT team is way harder.

Othella was a very good player but not that upper level as seen by the secondary role he played with Iverson on the team.

Roy and Jeff are both great players on great teams. They're ahead of all but the very small handful of Hoyas like Ewing, Sleepy, Iverson, and 'Zo all-time.

[bubbrubbhoya]

gigafan99 said:

I actually think Sweets is OVERrated. I know that's not popular but to be honest it's a lot easier to put up huge numbers on a bad team.

For the record, I agree with you, Giga.

[SFHoya99]

Scoring more on a great team is harder. However, you're completely ignoring that Sweetney's 12 ppg were as a freshman, and chalking up his increases simply to weaker teammates is ignoring the natural progression 90% of athletes make.

I would agree with you that Sweetney is overrated if he was like Victor Page in his scoring -- shooting 40% and just getting by on volume. There are lots of guys like that in basketball -- whether it be Tony Campbell in Minnesota or Kelly Tripucka in Charlotte or Victor Page in 96-97.

Sweetney scored 1.3 PPS his sophomore year. That's right around Jeff's effectiveness from last year ... except that Mike shot 100 more times. And faced constant double and triple teams. And had a coach who had no idea how to create open shots.

He averaged 2 apg his senior year, but also over 3 blocks and about 2 steals. Those aren't numbers that increase with poor teammates.

Mike's raw scoring might have gone up with lesser teammates and coaching, but his rate stats would have been Roy-like if he had III as a coach and Jeff Green as a teammate. (And before you object, think about it. Mike had devastating low post moves. How often have you seen Roy doubled? Mike had killer soft hands and established better post position -- how often had we passed up Roy because we couldn't get the ball in?).

Defensively, you might be right on Mike. Hard to say. Offensively, he was not a product of being the only option. His rate stats prove that.

[ExcitableBoy]

gigafan99 said:

sfhoya99 said:

Othella was a fine player. He didn't have half the low post ability of Mike. He's a completely different player but he never could've scored 20 ppg facing constant double and triple teams.

Basketball is a team game. Mike had nothing to help him -- and he's always going to be underrated by most of the population because of that.

I actually think Sweets is OVERrated. I know that's not popular but to be honest it's a lot easier to put up huge numbers on a bad team.

Note the top 5 scoring average leaders of all time (Iverson, Sweetney, Floyd, Barry, and Page). Notice anything? The three who put up huge numbers on bad teams aren't exactly world beaters at the next level. The two who almost exclusively put up their numbers on great teams became NBA all-stars. I look at Sweets a bit like Vic. Both had great freshmen years on very good teams averaging a nice 12+ and playing their role well.

Then everyone left and their numbers exploded. And the fanbase said "If they just had someone else." Well yeah, but they wouldn't be averaging 23 a game with someone else either. So I think both those guys were very good players but to be a GREAT player on a GREAT team is way harder.

Othella was a very good player but not that upper level as seen by the secondary role he played with Iverson on the team.

Roy and Jeff are both great players on great teams. They're ahead of all but the very small handful of Hoyas like Ewing, Sleepy, Iverson, and 'Zo all-time.

I completely agree with you about the stats. No way Sweetney is the second leading scorer in school history if he plays along side Green or Hibbert (or, for that matter, under JTIII).

But that still doesn't change the fact that the man was an absolute beast. Yeah, he was almost always in foul trouble, but when he wasn't he was a force around the basket. He had great hands for a big man but could also power through true centers for some pretty aggressive dunks too. The man had the skill set to be great, there should be no doubt about that. The fact that he put up huge numbers on crappy teams should no more be held against him than the fact that Roy & Jeff put up more pedestrian numbers on a great team.

Even without his gaudy numbers, Sweetney is every bit as good as the best Hoyas.

[TX Hoya]

Best hands of any big man I've ever seen. Also, and unfortunately, currently eating his way out of an NBA roster