Some Big Picture Thoughts (Facilities/Salaries)

[jerseyhoya34]

There have been many valuable points made this week on the issue, particularly from YB, SirSaxa, and St. Pete on the coaching salaries and facilities issues, but the discussion seems to be tapering off a bit and unraveling. The rumor mill has naturally separated the issues because it is possible to have success with good coaching and bad facilities (Georgetown model) and have minimal success with good facilities and bad coaching (Rutgers model). Anyway, I am going to do my best to discuss both issues in my various thoughts below.

The Shell Game
I have been struck over the past few years at how talented we've become at passing the buck and, thereby, avoiding tough decisions and action. When Joe Lang was here, we blamed the facilities. When he wasn't here, we blamed Juan Gonzalez. Because Gonzalez isn't here, who is left to blame? When Esherick was here, we still blamed facilities. When decisions were expressly reserved for DeGioia, we now talk about Gonzalez. On and on it goes. We've gone from blaming people to inanimate objects and back again and, all the same, we have had our eyes taken off the ball, which is to say that someone is responsible for various decisions and can/should be contacted about these issues that confront the program. Worse still have been suggestions that we can't draw up plans for facilities because the local hobgoblins might not approve them. I'll let that one stand on its own.

I could care less who ultimately is responsible here as long as there is action toward extending JT3's contract and building a practice facility or on-campus arena. At the same time, we cannot let ourselves be distracted by excuses for inaction.

The Issue of Public Information
Contrary to some reports, the coaching and facilities issues have been discussed in public by GU personnel and this has been the case as recently as the Esherick years. On January 20, 2003, this website carried a report including quotes from then AD Lang that the University was negotiating a contract extension with then Coach Esherick. On February 10, 2003, this website also carried a report concerning AD Lang's attempts to make McDonough workable for BE games. So, it was not altogether surprising that coaching and facilities issues recently received attention in the media.

The issue of whether this should be a topic of public discussion is a normative debate, and I would suggest that it benefits us to have public pressure. As has been discussed previously, the idea of "letting GU run its course" is and has been dangerous. Indeed, we have been silent since the March-Aoril 2004 rallies and petitions, and action on the facilities issue has been non-existent. How will preservation of the status quo change the game and bring about the needed changes in our facilities and coaching salaries?

"Giving Back"
Perhaps this issue is better taken up in the Shell Game points above, as the "giving back" discussion has led to attempts to distract from the need for non-athlete alum giving. I would find it mildly offensive if I was a hoops alum to find out that after the years of blood, sweat, and tears that brought immeasurable notoriety to the University that I would have to turn around and give money to build a facility that the University refuses to raise money for anyway. If I was Dikembe Mutombo or Mourning, I'd find medical care in Africa, medical research, and youth programs to be higher priorities in life. I would hope that our program and University have taught them as much.

The facilities and salaries issues are not something that we should have to rely on our hoops alums to bail us out on. It is the time for alum leadership, action, and execution. Nevermind the issue of figuring out how we are supposed to give to coaching and facilities funds that do not exist in the first place.

Band Aids v. Solutions
Some have proposed that we just ask for incremental increases from HHC donors to get us to the promised land on the salaries issue. Unfortunately, the salaries issue is not a matter of a few dollars here and a t-shirt sale there. Those things obviously help, but the shear numbers (millions of dollars) that we need on the salaries issue requires University-wide leadership and will. We need to tap in to the donors in the pools where hundreds of thousands of dollars are discussed, like the folks who stepped up to buy out former Coach Esherick.

Similarly, replacing ceiling tiles, patching up the floor, and hanging a few pictures in the lobby are not substitutes for a wrecking ball. The latter puts us one step closer to having a facility worthy of the time and hard work of our athletes and coaches.

Students v. Alums
As much as JWall's shot against UNC sticks with me right now, one moment from the HHC open practice also sticks with me juxtaposed against some of JT3's public comments. Some might remember how JT3 concluded the Q&A at the open practice by imploring our HHC and alums to do something about McDonough. Almost six months later, there is no sign of action on this front.

Then, I recall what JT3 frequently says about the students and Hoya Blue, which is how "they have been great since I've been here." They spend countless hours and pay money out of pocket to attend games, promote all sports, build campus spirit, improve game experiences, etc.

And, it raises the question of what he thinks of us as alums and, worse still, the administration (the one that reportedly low balled him on salary when he was hired).

As alums, we can do more than send checks, turn on the tv, and go to the MCI Center or wherever we are playing. We can do more than blame people who aren't here or inanimate objects for woes in our program. We can do more than wait for GU to run its course, set the priorities, and send us the bill.

This is the time for our alums and administration to start being great.

[DFW HOYA]

A good start to an important topic. Some thoughts.

1. I mentioned Juan Gonzalez, but it was not passing the buck. Someone asked if Athletics always reported up to DeGioia and the answer was no. I don't think anyone is blaming Gonzalez (or his predecessors) unless I missed that thread.

2. It is possible to have success with good coaching and bad facilities but it's increasingly less likely to maintain success.

3. Georgetown has prepared various plans for 20 years to fix McD, most recently in 2000. It never gets up the hill past 2nd Healy, so to speak, so let the discussion start there and not with the ANC.

4. GU's response to public pressure has long been overstated on this board. It's not the status quo to worry about, it's the institutional inertia that fans have short memories and July will roll around and nothing will get done. The annual talk on the Multi-Sport Facility is an example.

5. As to giving back, non-alumni giving is better than it has ever been. Athlete giving, sadly, has not. John Thompson Jr. spoke to this at the 100th anniversary banquet, saying it's about time the alumni of the program give back to the program.

And if "the facilities and salaries issues are not something that we should have to rely on our hoops alums to bail us out on ", well, why should we expect anyone else to step forward? The leadership gifts approaching $12 million for the MSF came from football alumni, the $10M for the boathouse from crew alumni.

6. I reject the argument that JTIII was "reportedly low balled...on salary when he was hired". His pay was an sizeable increase from his predecessor at a time when athletics was in the red and was his to accept or decline. Georgetown wasn't in a financial position to pay BCS-like coaching numbers. The puzzle is that it may (or may not) be today.

You write that " We can do more than wait for GU to run its course, set the priorities, and send us the bill. This is the time for our alums and administration to start being great." Well, who takes the first step?

[StPetersburgHoya (Inactive)]

why does the arena have to be on-campus? Couldn't it just as easily be built in the Rossyln area and probably have the support of the business community there?

My problem is that at times it seems that the University is not willing to think outside of the box on these issues.

Also, Bernard Muir should take note - as many have suggested he sees the job at Georgetown as a stepping stone to a larger athletic department with an increased budget - I really don't see one of those jobs opening up for him until the facilities issue is fixed.

I would like to take a little different view than DFW did with his 5 and 6 points for a few reasons:

1. I agree that basketball alumni giving is below where everyone would like it to be, but that doesn't excuse alumni from not becoming more involved with the program. The level of basketball giving is below other sports, but that level of giving should be brought up along with the level of alumni financial and non-financial committment to the University - a rising tide should lift all boats as we rebuild many sorely lacking aspects of our program. Also, people can't just wait until the athetlic department asks for help, I think the example of HB is pretty helpful here - HB worked actively to go to the Hoop Club, sit in on the meetings, and also to form relationships with persons in McDonough - HHC already has many of those linkages established, but for whatever reason (geography, perceptions of HHC or the basketball program in the past, etc.) those relationships are not as dynamic and haven't resulted in as many activities that actively support the mission of the athletic department - that needs to change and alumni need to be asking what we can do to get involved and being proactive in forming those relationships with McDonough. So on DFW's final question I feel that active alumni involvement that asks "what can i do to help?" as opposed to "who do i make the check out to?" is what is needed.

2. JTIII was low-balled. The proper point of reference is not what his salary was at Princeton, its what the salary of a new head coach in the Big East was at that time.

[HoyaTejano]

Whatever the action is, it better happen quickly There are about, oh, four state schools right now with open or soon-to-be open slots that would direct serious megabucks to JT3 based on the performance he already demonstrated at Georgetown. What more does he need to do performance-wise?

It's a tall order to take something as important as future facilities and then just put it all on the alumni base. Somebody at the University has to say, "Yes, I stand up and I want John Thompson Court at the Ewing Convocational Center to happen and I am going to lead the effort to make it happen."

I know where GU stands relative to the rest of the BE schools. However, this University has to have a figure stand up and say -- Follow Me and I'll lead the way. That kind of institutional committment will spur alumni to give. The reason why this University struggles with this kind of stuff is that its president doesn't make those kinds of statements a priority.

This is beyond Muir and beyond even the basketball alumni. This is about the President of this University saying that "GU is going to find a way, and I don't want to hear about what's in my way, because here I COME and NOBODY is going to allow GU hoops to be second to ANYBODY."

[bubbrubbhoya]

There are some awesome points here, guys. StPete, I really think that the off-campus practice idea has legs, and Tejano, you are absolutely right about the need for a leader who wants to get the job done. Any way you guys can get your thoughts into letter form and send them to the applicable university/HHC personnel?

[PopeJohn2]

I think many of the comments and requests, though passionate and heartfelt, are unrealistic and show ignorance of the situation georgetown is in. The simple fact is that the school doesn't have the money. Admin is well aware of the needs and would like nothing more than to pay top salaries and build better facilities but it can't afford it. Basketball loses the school millions each year. Only when we make it deep in the tourney like this year do we BREAK EVEN.

Our problem is our endowment is less than $1 billion when by comparison yales/harvard/stanford is around $20 billion. We don't simply don't have the financial resources. And there are a lot of more pressing needs than basketball, such as financial aid, endowed chairs, science center, building graduate programs.

Running the university should be like running a business. Basketball is generally a money losing business. And the fan base is not large enough and do not donate enough to expect all these great expensive things. This was evidenced by the fact that we only used roughly half of our alloted 3200 tickets for the final 4. The rest were used by non-georgetown fans. For every 1 hoya in atlanta, there must have been 10 osu and 20 florida fans. They are massive schools (state subsidized)and hence have lots of money. Georgetown makes money off stuff like $50k tuition on graduate programs and increasing enrollment, not sports. Sports may be fun and entertaining, but georgetown simply cannot afford to remain academically competitive while investing in money losing sports facilities.

So if you really want to do something to improve the basketball program, other than complain and write letters to the admin, you should donate or better yet, lead a $100 million basketball fundraising campaign. Get basketball alumni to give back. But be educated about all the issues the university faces before making demands lest you appear insensitive and ignorant, and therefore, not be taken seriously by the admin.

[HoyaChris]

popejohn2 said:

I think many of the comments and requests, though passionate and heartfelt, are unrealistic and show ignorance of the situation georgetown is in. The simple fact is that the school doesn't have the money. Admin is well aware of the needs and would like nothing more than to pay top salaries and build better facilities but it can't afford it. Basketball loses the school millions each year. Only when we make it deep in the tourney like this year do we BREAK EVEN.

Our problem is our endowment is less than $1 billion when by comparison yales/harvard/stanford is around $20 billion. We don't simply don't have the financial resources. And there are a lot of more pressing needs than basketball, such as financial aid, endowed chairs, science center, building graduate programs.

Running the university should be like running a business. Basketball is generally a money losing business. And the fan base is not large enough and do not donate enough to expect all these great expensive things. This was evidenced by the fact that we only used roughly half of our alloted 3200 tickets for the final 4. The rest were used by non-georgetown fans. For every 1 hoya in atlanta, there must have been 10 osu and 20 florida fans. They are massive schools (state subsidized)and hence have lots of money. Georgetown makes money off stuff like $50k tuition on graduate programs and increasing enrollment, not sports. Sports may be fun and entertaining, but georgetown simply cannot afford to remain academically competitive while investing in money losing sports facilities.

So if you really want to do something to improve the basketball program, other than complain and write letters to the admin, you should donate or better yet, lead a $100 million basketball fundraising campaign. Get basketball alumni to give back. But be educated about all the issues the university faces before making demands lest you appear insensitive and ignorant, and therefore, not be taken seriously by the admin.

Where would you possibly get the idea that we only used half of our tickets? While I might agree with some of your points, this assertion is so bizarre as to undermine everything you say.

[edstimes]

jerseyhoya34 said:

There have been many valuable points made this week on the issue, particularly from YB, SirSaxa, and St. Pete on the coaching salaries and facilities issues, but the discussion seems to be tapering off a bit and unraveling. The rumor mill has naturally separated the issues because it is possible to have success with good coaching and bad facilities (Georgetown model) and have minimal success with good facilities and bad coaching (Rutgers model). Anyway, I am going to do my best to discuss both issues in my various thoughts below.

The Shell Game
I have been struck over the past few years at how talented we've become at passing the buck and, thereby, avoiding tough decisions and action. When Joe Lang was here, we blamed the facilities. When he wasn't here, we blamed Juan Gonzalez. Because Gonzalez isn't here, who is left to blame? When Esherick was here, we still blamed facilities. When decisions were expressly reserved for DeGioia, we now talk about Gonzalez. On and on it goes. We've gone from blaming people to inanimate objects and back again and, all the same, we have had our eyes taken off the ball, which is to say that someone is responsible for various decisions and can/should be contacted about these issues that confront the program. Worse still have been suggestions that we can't draw up plans for facilities because the local hobgoblins might not approve them. I'll let that one stand on its own.

I could care less who ultimately is responsible here as long as there is action toward extending JT3's contract and building a practice facility or on-campus arena. At the same time, we cannot let ourselves be distracted by excuses for inaction.

The Issue of Public Information
Contrary to some reports, the coaching and facilities issues have been discussed in public by GU personnel and this has been the case as recently as the Esherick years. On January 20, 2003, this website carried a report including quotes from then AD Lang that the University was negotiating a contract extension with then Coach Esherick. On February 10, 2003, this website also carried a report concerning AD Lang's attempts to make McDonough workable for BE games. So, it was not altogether surprising that coaching and facilities issues recently received attention in the media.

The issue of whether this should be a topic of public discussion is a normative debate, and I would suggest that it benefits us to have public pressure. As has been discussed previously, the idea of "letting GU run its course" is and has been dangerous. Indeed, we have been silent since the March-Aoril 2004 rallies and petitions, and action on the facilities issue has been non-existent. How will preservation of the status quo change the game and bring about the needed changes in our facilities and coaching salaries?

"Giving Back"
Perhaps this issue is better taken up in the Shell Game points above, as the "giving back" discussion has led to attempts to distract from the need for non-athlete alum giving. I would find it mildly offensive if I was a hoops alum to find out that after the years of blood, sweat, and tears that brought immeasurable notoriety to the University that I would have to turn around and give money to build a facility that the University refuses to raise money for anyway. If I was Dikembe Mutombo or Mourning, I'd find medical care in Africa, medical research, and youth programs to be higher priorities in life. I would hope that our program and University have taught them as much.

The facilities and salaries issues are not something that we should have to rely on our hoops alums to bail us out on. It is the time for alum leadership, action, and execution. Nevermind the issue of figuring out how we are supposed to give to coaching and facilities funds that do not exist in the first place.

Band Aids v. Solutions
Some have proposed that we just ask for incremental increases from HHC donors to get us to the promised land on the salaries issue. Unfortunately, the salaries issue is not a matter of a few dollars here and a t-shirt sale there. Those things obviously help, but the shear numbers (millions of dollars) that we need on the salaries issue requires University-wide leadership and will. We need to tap in to the donors in the pools where hundreds of thousands of dollars are discussed, like the folks who stepped up to buy out former Coach Esherick.

Similarly, replacing ceiling tiles, patching up the floor, and hanging a few pictures in the lobby are not substitutes for a wrecking ball. The latter puts us one step closer to having a facility worthy of the time and hard work of our athletes and coaches.

Students v. Alums
As much as JWall's shot against UNC sticks with me right now, one moment from the HHC open practice also sticks with me juxtaposed against some of JT3's public comments. Some might remember how JT3 concluded the Q&A at the open practice by imploring our HHC and alums to do something about McDonough. Almost six months later, there is no sign of action on this front.

Then, I recall what JT3 frequently says about the students and Hoya Blue, which is how "they have been great since I've been here." They spend countless hours and pay money out of pocket to attend games, promote all sports, build campus spirit, improve game experiences, etc.

And, it raises the question of what he thinks of us as alums and, worse still, the administration (the one that reportedly low balled him on salary when he was hired).

As alums, we can do more than send checks, turn on the tv, and go to the MCI Center or wherever we are playing. We can do more than blame people who aren't here or inanimate objects for woes in our program. We can do more than wait for GU to run its course, set the priorities, and send us the bill.

This is the time for our alums and administration to start being great.

An enjoyable, challenging post **

[YB]

popejohn2 said:

I think many of the comments and requests, though passionate and heartfelt, are unrealistic and show ignorance of the situation georgetown is in. The simple fact is that the school doesn't have the money. Admin is well aware of the needs and would like nothing more than to pay top salaries and build better facilities but it can't afford it. Basketball loses the school millions each year. Only when we make it deep in the tourney like this year do we BREAK EVEN.

Our problem is our endowment is less than $1 billion when by comparison yales/harvard/stanford is around $20 billion. We don't simply don't have the financial resources. And there are a lot of more pressing needs than basketball, such as financial aid, endowed chairs, science center, building graduate programs.

Running the university should be like running a business. Basketball is generally a money losing business. And the fan base is not large enough and do not donate enough to expect all these great expensive things. This was evidenced by the fact that we only used roughly half of our alloted 3200 tickets for the final 4. The rest were used by non-georgetown fans. For every 1 hoya in atlanta, there must have been 10 osu and 20 florida fans. They are massive schools (state subsidized)and hence have lots of money. Georgetown makes money off stuff like $50k tuition on graduate programs and increasing enrollment, not sports. Sports may be fun and entertaining, but georgetown simply cannot afford to remain academically competitive while investing in money losing sports facilities.

So if you really want to do something to improve the basketball program, other than complain and write letters to the admin, you should donate or better yet, lead a $100 million basketball fundraising campaign. Get basketball alumni to give back. But be educated about all the issues the university faces before making demands lest you appear insensitive and ignorant, and therefore, not be taken seriously by the admin.

The problem with this line of thinking, Pope John, is that with it, nothing gets done- and we are stuck with Esherick once again in 2 years.

Things don't get done without leadership. The Admin in Healy have not shown leadership in this issue.

If they decided to make fundraising to endow the coach's salary and for a new arena a BIG priority in the next round of fundraising, then at least everyone would know they were serious about the program and us NOT being in the Patriot League 10 years from now. As of now, the is a real possibility due to facilities that would make a HS blush and coaches salaries that are in the bottom 3% of schools from big 6 conferences- currently our athletic peers.

In addition to this, I'd like to point something out. When you say GU basketball is in the red except for the best years, that is true- ONLY if you count scholarships against the cost of the program. Essentially, the cost of 12 additional students to be at GU. If not for that, since the JT3 era began, the program is actually doing substantially well.

Bernard- and I don't agree with everything he's done here, not by a long shot- but he is correct in setting priorities for endowing the schollies of the 13 basketball players. That is a matter of LEADERSHIP. To get things done. And the University has been woeful on this point.

This year was the singular best year of HHC donations. 1500 donors for $1.5m. With continued success that will go up- because alums are finally starting to believe the money will not be frittered away as it is with the rest of the University. Let Coach walk, you will see a PR ripple on University giving that will rival the Great Depression's effect on the NYSE.

At this point, we are at a critical juncture. Invest in the program and reap the rewards we are just starting to reap already.

Or do it not- and enjoy playing Lehigh and Colgate in 10 years.

The issue is leadership. Will the University step up or will it not?

[hilltopper2000]

I totally agree YB. I'd love to see the numbers on the basketball program's financial value. It is very hard to measure all of the income the program brings in. Does anyone know if liscencing is included? The vast majority of Georgetown apparel that is purchased is because of the basketball team--is that accounted for? I bet not. Also, we are forgetting that the program was in the red under Esherick, even with his tiny salary.

At the end of the day, the DeGioia needs to make a decision. Either we are a big-time basketball school or we are not. If we are not, for Heaven's Sake drop out of the Big East and join the Patroit League. If we are, pay JTIII a $1 million+ salary, give him the budget a top program needs, and build an on-campus facility. Long-term that is the only way to make money off of the program. There is money available to do this--both institutionally and from alumni--I just has to be a priority.

[SFHoya99]

The vast majority of Georgetown apparel that is purchased is because of the basketball team--is that accounted for? I bet not.

Nor is the advertising value of having our school's name everywhere in March, or Patrick Ewing saying on the air that his proudest moment was graduation and how happy he is that Pat Jr. is at Georgetown because of how it has helped him become a man.

Nor is the value calculated of all those students who have rallied around the basketball team -- who will give money back to the University because of how they felt at the Final Four or at the Duke game. Georgetown has very little to unify its student base. Basketball is the rare thing.

[DFW HOYA]

I think the whole discussion of the Patriot League is a red herring. It's no more likely than to say Georgetown is destined for the NEC or the CAA, other than the fact that the PL took in the football program where the other two did not.

Anyone who has met Georgetown's executives, whether in athletics or at the top, have to be impressed by them. The problem is, of course, that the other 98% of folks that have never met them view Georgetown from the perspective that there is little or no consistent communication to the constituency.

A colleague at the Final Four asked me why Georgetown couldn't have an e-mail in his box Tuesday morning thanking him for his support and encouraging him to give now for 07-08. Well, it didn't arrive. When you don't maintain two-way communication, you lose ground.

Meanwhile, the UCLA web site already has a link for 2007-08 season tickets and early pledges for 2007-08 donors to retain their seats had a deadline of March 31.

uclabruins.cstv.com/tickets/2007-mbb-season-tix-deposit.html

[HoyaNyr320]

popejohn2 said:

I think many of the comments and requests, though passionate and heartfelt, are unrealistic and show ignorance of the situation georgetown is in. The simple fact is that the school doesn't have the money. Admin is well aware of the needs and would like nothing more than to pay top salaries and build better facilities but it can't afford it. Basketball loses the school millions each year. Only when we make it deep in the tourney like this year do we BREAK EVEN.

Our problem is our endowment is less than $1 billion when by comparison yales/harvard/stanford is around $20 billion. We don't simply don't have the financial resources. And there are a lot of more pressing needs than basketball, such as financial aid, endowed chairs, science center, building graduate programs.

Running the university should be like running a business. Basketball is generally a money losing business. And the fan base is not large enough and do not donate enough to expect all these great expensive things. This was evidenced by the fact that we only used roughly half of our alloted 3200 tickets for the final 4. The rest were used by non-georgetown fans. For every 1 hoya in atlanta, there must have been 10 osu and 20 florida fans. They are massive schools (state subsidized)and hence have lots of money. Georgetown makes money off stuff like $50k tuition on graduate programs and increasing enrollment, not sports. Sports may be fun and entertaining, but georgetown simply cannot afford to remain academically competitive while investing in money losing sports facilities.

So if you really want to do something to improve the basketball program, other than complain and write letters to the admin, you should donate or better yet, lead a $100 million basketball fundraising campaign. Get basketball alumni to give back. But be educated about all the issues the university faces before making demands lest you appear insensitive and ignorant, and therefore, not be taken seriously by the admin.

Ok Mr. PopeJohn. Since you have such a grasp on the financial woes of the Basketball program, you must also know that one of the major expenses that holds the program back is our need to lease the Verizon Center for 15 games a year. Although we don't know the exact terms of the lease, we do know that selling the amount of tickets we sell does not take us out of the red for the lease.

So... What is the solution to that problem? Well, building a 7,000-8,000 seat facility would allow Georgetown to use the Verizon center less and place all money made from ticket sales, concessions, and souvenirs directly into the pockets of Georgetown Athletics. Will it cost a ton of money to get it done? Of course it will. Does it make sense for the University to build a 12,000 seat arena in the Georgetown area? Absolutely not. But don't you think the University could, as St.Pete suggested, come up with a creative way to get land in Northern Virginia that is highway accessible and build a home worthy of our team? If that is not possible then they at least deserve a place to practice other than McDonough Gymnasium. Hell, even Ted Leonsis has hinted that he would provide a large-sized donation if it involves just a practice facility. The basketball team will lose even more money for the school if we make decisions such as not paying JTIII what he deserves or maintaining the status quo on the facilities issue because less recruits will come to Georgetown, the team will get worse, and less people will buy tickets to go to the games at Verizon.

Like you said Mr. PopeJohn, run the program like it is a business...

[YB]

Ultimately, why do alumni give money to their alma mater?

I think it is a function of two things:

1. The alma mater asks, and has a coherent plan of what the money will be used for. There is a bond of trust between the 2 that the money given will not be wasted. Georgetown gets an F in this department- which is why the leadership issue is so crucial, for athletics as well as the rest of the U.

2. There is a good feeling- memories, gratitude, whatever- by the alum. GU used to get an F in this, as the University used to treat the students with a general "F you" attitude and the students would reply with a like "F you" when GU came calling for dollars as alums.

BCS schools get big alumni donations because they treat their students well, and because their students remember the solidarity of rooting for football and other athletic teams- tailgating, partying, whatever. This contributes in no small way to the "good feeling" that people remember from their college years.

GU has gotten better at treating its students better- the institutional priority on this has been clear. But the basketball program does more to complete this "good feeling" or solidatiry than anything else GU does.

Once the University figures this out, and figures out how to capitalize off of it, the answer to the Hoops program becomes clear.

[ML152]

This is something I've been thinking about for awhile. I do think this is party related to the issue of being a small private Jesuit school competing against much larger state funded institutions. Since 2000 only six of the 32 final four participants have been non-state schools. (Duke twice, 'Cuse, Marquette, George Mason, Georgetown). The number is even smaller for the years 1990-99.

Fact is, the North Carolinas, Ohio States and Floridas of the world have huge athletics budgets at their disposal, much larger fan bases and alumni to draw donations from and just much greater university resources overall.

Heck, even Louisville and UConn are getting nice chunks of Big East bowl money. Are there any smaller private institutions other than Duke and that have consistently been in the top 25 year in and year out? I can think only of Stanford, USC, BC, Syracuse, ND (all football schools) and also Villanova and arguably Gonzaga. Point is, I haven't quite yet figured out how small private institutions like Georgetown can level the playing field with the big state football schools. This is forgetting for a second that we're space constrained and not in the best financial shape.

It's not that we can't compete it's just that we have to be more resourceful and more organized. We're getting there, but it is going to take some time and a lot of effort.

Clarification: George Mason is a state school.--Admin

[thebin]

I for one have zero interest in the university spending 8 or more likely 9 figures on an off campus facility in Rossyln, etc. WHat's the point of that? If we can't bring it home, MCI is a very nice NBA arena and fairly close. If the point is to prepare for the bad times when paying MCI rent is prohibitive...well in those times, good luck getting even 4K to get their butts over the Key Bridge. I would rather see money like that spent on shoring up practice facilities and coaching salaries.

[FairfaxHoya]

If we could actually get the 7K on-campus arena that people are discussing, what are the odds that we could get the Big East to approve playing conference games there? Anybody have any insights on this?

[YB]

thebin said:

I for one have zero interest in the university spending 8 or more likely 9 figures on an off campus facility in Rossyln, etc. WHat's the point of that? If we can't bring it home, MCI is a very nice NBA arena and fairly close. If the point is to prepare for the bad times when paying MCI rent is prohibitive...well in those times, good luck getting even 4K to get their butts over the Key Bridge. I would rather see money like that spent on shoring up practice facilities and coaching salaries.

Not sure I agree, given that many GU students already live in Rosslyn and that it is a 15 minute walk from campus, which is a shorter walk than many on-campus state schools have to their on-campus facilities.

But that said, if it's a practice facility or a 6k seat arena, it's still imperative to get it done sooner rather than later. Timing is a HUGE issue here.

[YB]

doogie said:

If we could actually get the 7K on-campus arena that people are discussing, what are the odds that we could get the Big East to approve playing conference games there? Anybody have any insights on this?

I recall reading someplace that the BE would allow us an exception for a 6-7K arena. I don't know if that is going to happen, but in theory it would be possible.

[thebin]

doogie said:

If we could actually get the 7K on-campus arena that people are discussing, what are the odds that we could get the Big East to approve playing conference games there? Anybody have any insights on this?

I don't believe you need league approval if it holds 7k- I think the league min is lower than that- 6 or 6.5K i think.

If more than a couple of hundred (tops) GU students live in Rosslyn these days...things have changed a LOT from the late 1990s. I mean if you could build something RIGHT at the end of the Key Bridge that would be almost on campus....just like Navy's football stadium is to their campus. I could be open to that...but it would literally have to be decent walking distance (dead of winter) and I would lose interest fast as you started moving even a couple of miles into VA...which I think realistically is what would happen. THe minute its not reasonable walking distance from campus...it becomes a huge waste of very scarce resources to solve a problem (MCI) that isn't as bad as some think.