GIGAFAN99
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,487
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 22, 2007 14:05:19 GMT -5
Officially this thread is over. It can only go two ways:
1. Another Esh argument
2. Transfer speculation
Let's kill it. We have a Sweet 16 to worry about.
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Post by TX Hoya on Mar 22, 2007 14:06:24 GMT -5
Tay Spann can leave. Big Ticket could leave - although I don't want him to. EDITED, and for hoyaclap to even mention Causey as if it was some kind of loss is a joke. I hope III wants to recruit players who can make it in the classroom and graduate, in addition to being badass McD's All-Americans.
MOD NOTE: unsubstantiated speculation about current or past players' academic status is not permitted.
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Big Dog
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,912
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Post by Big Dog on Mar 22, 2007 14:07:44 GMT -5
Officially this thread is over. It can only go two ways: 1. Another Esh argument 2. Transfer speculation Let's kill it. We have a Sweet 16 to worry about. Thought police! Why are people so threatened that the word "Esh" appears on the Board? Don't read the threads if you prefer. People, if you want to talk more about the article, do so. Don't engage in completely baseless transfer speculation and keep the poster-to-poster ribbing good natured.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,570
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 22, 2007 14:08:20 GMT -5
MOD NOTE: no active speculation about the status of specific current team student athletes will be allowed.
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hoyaclap
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 202
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Post by hoyaclap on Mar 22, 2007 14:11:57 GMT -5
EDITED, and for hoyaclap to even mention Causey as if it was some kind of loss is a joke. I hope III wants to recruit players who can make it in the classroom and graduate, in addition to being badass McD's All-Americans. Have you been paying attention for the past couple of months regarding Marc? And regarding Matt, I didn't say we needed him, I just referred to him as possibly the largest contributer of the bunch. I don't think theres anything innaccurate about that, TX.
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The Stig
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,844
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Post by The Stig on Mar 22, 2007 14:12:49 GMT -5
Speaking as somebody who has only closely followed Georgetown basketball in the JTIII era, I think it would be nice to see Esherick welcomed back into the Hoya family.
If he were still bitter about his experiences here and criticizing us publicly, then he would deserve his exile. But the fact that he's publicly complimenting our current players and coaches is very classy, and I think a Georgetown guy with that sort of attitude should be welcomed back into the family if he ever shows up at a game.
As far as I can tell Esherick tried his best for our program, but he just wasn't good enough as a head coach. Not being good enough shouldn't be reason enough to make somebody and outcast. The Hoya family hasn't exiled players who did their best but came up short in crucial moments (as an example, Fred Brown and Darell Owens both got very warm receptions when they showed up at the Verizon Center this year), and I think we should take a similar approach to our ex-coaches.
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Big Dog
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,912
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Post by Big Dog on Mar 22, 2007 14:19:44 GMT -5
Speaking as somebody who has only closely followed Georgetown basketball in the JTIII era, I think it would be nice to see Esherick welcomed back into the Hoya family. If he were still bitter about his experiences here and criticizing us publicly, then he would deserve his exile. But the fact that he's publicly complimenting our current players and coaches is very classy, and I think a Georgetown guy with that sort of attitude should be welcomed back into the family if he ever shows up at a game. As far as I can tell Esherick tried his best for our program, but he just wasn't good enough as a head coach. Not being good enough shouldn't be reason enough to make somebody and outcast. The Hoya family hasn't exiled players who did their best but came up short in crucial moments (as an example, Fred Brown and Darell Owens both got very warm receptions when they showed up at the Verizon Center this year), and I think we should take a similar approach to our ex-coaches. I'd love to welcome him back, and I'm sure most of Gtown feels the same way. But I can see from his standpoint why he wouldn't be ready to be around yet.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Mar 22, 2007 14:22:33 GMT -5
One last comment on this: I agree with whoever said it above that the flammable nature of posts about Esherick stems more from the barbs towards other posters it inspires than from pot shots at Esh. From my standpoint, the fact that some were still defending Esh's performance as a "Gtown man" long after it was clear that he didn't know what he was doing was as infuriating as many of Georgetown's losses in that era. Still, Esh muddied the waters and forever tainted himself in many of our eyes with that preposterous "I AM Georgetown basketball, I will be here for 30 years" speech. Anyway, I still can't believe its only three years later and we've got a legitimate shot at qualifying for the Final Four this weekend. Astounding. Big Dog (and others who share the above sentiments): I agree that some of the threads involving Coach Esherick have been baited by a propensity by various posters to merely argue for the sake of arguing. As someone who participated in many such threads, however, I can honestly say that was never the case for me. My comments in relation to Esherick have always been directed at trying to engender thoughful debate on the issues at hand. Like many people on this board, I have been a Hoya fan for all of my life. I would never support something- or someone- who I felt was not promoting the best interests of Georgetown basketball. I supported Esh throughout his tenure because I always believed him to be an excellent coach for the Georgetown program. In contrast to many fans, I felt that Esh was not responsible for many of the problems that occured during his tenure. I feel that the notion that his game coaching was somehow substandard is a myth. I also feel that he was capable of bringing the program back to prominence. Thus, I take exception to the notion that those who supported Esh to the end somehow did so to be contrarian. I know that I did so in my best efforts to support to Hoya basketball program that I know and love. My feelings in this regard were heavily influenced by my philosophy that basketball is a player-dominated sport at every level. I have always argued that by far and away the most important job of a college coach is to recruit. I have defended numerous coaches in other contexts for the same reason. For instance, I remember the Hoyas losing to WVU in 2006 and reading a bunch of stuff about how JT III was "outcoached" by Beilien, leading to our defeat. I argued on this board that such evaluations were inaccurate and misguided. Thus, the philosophy that I applied to Esh is the same philosophy that I apply to every coach. Moreover, unlike many posters, I did not take any offense to the comments Esh made shortly before his departure. I feel that more than anything else, those comments illustrated that he had been hurt by the attacks upon him by Hoya fans. More importantly, those comments also showed me that he was nowhere close to giving up, and that he was willing to fight to rebuild the program. As many of us may remember, he was actually out on a recruiting trip when he was called back to be fired. In any event, I DO NOT WANT TO REHASH ARGUMENTS ABOUT ESHERICK. If you have any particular thoughts, please feel free to send me a personal message. Nonetheless, I think it is important- both for former Esh supporters and former Esh haters- to make our peace with the Esherick tenure and move on. I can do so without trashing those who called for his departure. I would hope that others can move forward without attacking those who called for his retention. I can't wait for Friday night. Go Hoyas!!!
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Big Dog
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,912
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Post by Big Dog on Mar 22, 2007 15:38:44 GMT -5
Big Dog (and others who share the above sentiments): I agree that some of the threads involving Coach Esherick have been baited by a propensity by various posters to merely argue for the sake of arguing. As someone who participated in many such threads, however, I can honestly say that was never the case for me. My comments in relation to Esherick have always been directed at trying to engender thoughful debate on the issues at hand. Like many people on this board, I have been a Hoya fan for all of my life. I would never support something- or someone- who I felt was not promoting the best interests of Georgetown basketball. I supported Esh throughout his tenure because I always believed him to be an excellent coach for the Georgetown program. In contrast to many fans, I felt that Esh was not responsible for many of the problems that occured during his tenure. I feel that the notion that his game coaching was somehow substandard is a myth. I also feel that he was capable of bringing the program back to prominence. Thus, I take exception to the notion that those who supported Esh to the end somehow did so to be contrarian. I know that I did so in my best efforts to support to Hoya basketball program that I know and love. My feelings in this regard were heavily influenced by my philosophy that basketball is a player-dominated sport at every level. I have always argued that by far and away the most important job of a college coach is to recruit. I have defended numerous coaches in other contexts for the same reason. For instance, I remember the Hoyas losing to WVU in 2006 and reading a bunch of stuff about how JT III was "outcoached" by Beilien, leading to our defeat. I argued on this board that such evaluations were inaccurate and misguided. Thus, the philosophy that I applied to Esh is the same philosophy that I apply to every coach. Moreover, unlike many posters, I did not take any offense to the comments Esh made shortly before his departure. I feel that more than anything else, those comments illustrated that he had been hurt by the attacks upon him by Hoya fans. More importantly, those comments also showed me that he was nowhere close to giving up, and that he was willing to fight to rebuild the program. As many of us may remember, he was actually out on a recruiting trip when he was called back to be fired. In any event, I DO NOT WANT TO REHASH ARGUMENTS ABOUT ESHERICK. If you have any particular thoughts, please feel free to send me a personal message. Nonetheless, I think it is important- both for former Esh supporters and former Esh haters- to make our peace with the Esherick tenure and move on. I can do so without trashing those who called for his departure. I would hope that others can move forward without attacking those who called for his retention. I can't wait for Friday night. Go Hoyas!!! This is an interesting post. I'm not sure who you were referring to, but I certainly wasn't saying you were being contrarian. I suppose I was saying you were being foolish and/or delusional. Can you honestly tell me that your views about how a coach can impact a team and program at the college level hasn't been affected by the stunningly fast JTIII turnaround?
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Post by TX Hoya on Mar 22, 2007 16:55:49 GMT -5
This is an interesting post. I'm not sure who you were referring to, but I certainly wasn't saying you were being contrarian. I suppose I was saying you were being foolish and/or delusional. Can you honestly tell me that your views about how a coach can impact a team and program at the college level hasn't been affected by the stunningly fast JTIII turnaround? Agreed bigdog. hoyalove4ever is foolish and/or delusional. Look no further than Gillespie as another example of a coach instituting a turnaround. Amazing what he's done (he should win Coach of Year over III, in my opinion).
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Post by DoubleOhHoya on Mar 22, 2007 17:22:11 GMT -5
My position is this: Esherick tried, and couldn't cut the mustard. For that, he shouldn't be thrown under a bus. But don't tell me he could coach. Exhibit A is his record in close games. They lost far too many close games in his six seasons for that to fall on anyone but him.
That said, I think one's reaction when things go badly says a lot about a person. Commend him if you will for fighting to the end, but all I saw is a man out of touch with reality. He went down swinging, and not in a good way.
Bottom line, there's good reason for hard feelings. Now, final fours have a way of healing such wounds. So go Hoyas, and let's heal those wounds!!!!!
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