Shooting in the Dome & NCAAs

[bostonhoya05]

Anyone think our shooting last night could have had to do with the difficulty of shooting in the cavernous environment of a large basketball dome?

I tend to think it contributed a bit. They always say it's more difficult. Obviously it affects both teams, but Cuse has played there a ton this year, so not as bad for them.

With that in mind, any benefit to us to getting in the San Jose or East Rutherford regions? San Antonio and St. Louis are "Domed Regionals" (like Minneapolis... hmmm), so maybe a benefit to playing in an NBA arena instead.

Or I am just nitpicking?

[Oh My!]

I made this point earlier in the "Why I Hate the Imbalanced BE Schedule" thread.

[miamihoya]

i think the issue isnt so much that its a Dome, as much as it is the Carrier Dome and the enormous and loud home of our biggest rival....i dont think it would be an issue at a neutral site

[ExcitableBoy]

Cuse is different because its their dome. Personally, I've never played any D-1 games in a domed arena so I can't attest to the challenges posed by domes, but in a game where both teams were dome-virgins (or second-timers in our case) it would seem to effect both teams equally.

[prhoya]

It might have, but I think it has more to do with the partying after Saturday's game and then the trip on Sunday. After having to run a 25-second offense first and then shoot, the players' legs are not there to shoot the 3s. You might argue that Syracuse had to travel after an away game Saturday, but they didn't have the on-campus party.

[757hoyafan]

folks really think having a party is the reason we lost? wow!

prhoya said:

It might have, but I think it has more to do with the partying after Saturday's game and then the trip on Sunday. After having to run a 25-second offense first and then shoot, the players' legs are not there to shoot the 3s. You might argue that Syracuse had to travel after an away game Saturday, but they didn't have the on-campus party.

[VictorSkyPage]

I've heard about this shooting in a dome thing before.. I wouldn't know if it has any effect on shooting, but I know some players in the past have stated that it does.. could somebody explain?

either way, I think the bottom line is our guys were a little tired and just had an off night... that's all

the off night came against a home team that needed the game more than us and wanted the game more than us -- pretty simple

[SFHoya99]

I can buy the 30,000 people, but not the dome.

I did a study a few years ago, and there was zero difference between our shooting in NBA arenas and larger and smaller gyms. I suppose the dome could be different, but I expect not.

[prhoya]

757hoyafan said:

folks really think having a party is the reason we lost? wow!

prhoya said:

It might have, but I think it has more to do with the partying after Saturday's game and then the trip on Sunday. After having to run a 25-second offense first and then shoot, the players' legs are not there to shoot the 3s. You might argue that Syracuse had to travel after an away game Saturday, but they didn't have the on-campus party.

Yes. Tough Saturday game, all-night bash, some lovin', trip to Syracuse next day (hate to think it was a bus ride), etc... = no legs!

[HometownHoya]

prhoya said:

757hoyafan said:

folks really think having a party is the reason we lost? wow!

Yes. Tough Saturday game, all-night bash, some lovin', trip to Syracuse next day (hate to think it was a bus ride), etc... = no legs!

I agree with the tough Saturday game and the bus ride (who knows how long they were in that bus with that snow/sleet/rain we were getting on Sunday)

But, not sure if you are a current student, but the boys weren't really out for that "all-night bash", while I was, I saw Jeff, Roy, and JWall (a three that often hang out together) heading back to their dorms early. And yes, they were going back, when I saw them, being a die-hard fan of course I invited them but they decline stating that they were going in for the night.

[PDRHoya99]

Well, there is no shortage of articles about it online, including this one: espn.go.com/ncb/ncaatourney00/s/2000/0402/460155.html, but I've yet to find one that actually has any decent analysis behind it. Since this "study" (which is very generous use of the word), looked only at championship games, it was obviously focusing on the second game a team was playing in a domed environment. More important is probably the first time a team plays on a particular court. So, I'd love to see how the shooting in the semifinal games compared dome vs. no dome. Given that the players all talk about it, one would assume there is something to it, but it certainly could just be mental.

[doublehoya]

prhoya said:

757hoyafan said:

folks really think having a party is the reason we lost? wow!

Yes. Tough Saturday game, all-night bash, some lovin', trip to Syracuse next day (hate to think it was a bus ride), etc... = no legs!

If this is seriously the case, I am pretty disappointed in our Hoyas -- they can party their A$$ES OFF next saturday, but to do so when there is a game AT SYRACUSE that Monday? That is pretty bad. If it is the case, I bet JTIII is out for blood.

[VictorSkyPage]

doublehoya said:

If it is the case, I bet JTIII is out for blood.

rest assured... Morpheus is certainly out for blood

[PDRHoya99]

Following up on this, does anybody know a site with decent historical stats for NCAA tournament games?

Using a small sample of the 2005 NCAA tournament (stats are on ESPN.com), I looked at shooting statistics for teams that lost in the third round game in both Syracuse and New Mexico. I'm assuming the NM games were not played in a dome and the syracuse ones were, as well as assuming neither teams previous round game was played in a dome (since most 1st and 2nd round games aren't).

I've looked just at stats for the teams that lost in the sweet 16 round, since they presumably played 2 successful games in a non-dome environment, followed by a loss in a dome (for the cuse regional), and a loss in a stadium for the New Mexico regional. The disparity is huge in FG% (51% vs 35%), but could have a lot to do with the 4 teams I'm looking at, so I'd hardly leap to any conclusion from it. If anybody knows where the stats would be available, let me know.

[FLHoya]

Couple points:

1. Agreed that in a NCAA Tournament setting, the domed stadium should affect both teams equally.

2. I would venture to guess that if you compared their home record over the past decade or so, Cuse's "extra" home court advantage probably isn't THAT significant. If you're going with the assumption that a domed stadium really screws teams up, you'd expect a big statistical dropoff in teams' shooting performance in the Carrier Dome vs. other venues...and therefore a big disparity b/t home court performance and how you'd EXPECT a Cuse team to perform.

It may be the case, but another court we played on this season--Vanderbilt's--likely has a bigger HCA, and we played fine there.

There are so many factors going into home court advantage though that it's hard to tell what makes a difference anyways.

3. Might as well get used to domes if you wanna win/get to a Final Four. Not only have all the Final Fours since 1997 been in domes, the venue requirements ensure they will be in domes or FB stadia from now on.

Further, the Regional Final sites through 2010 are already set:

2007's are up-thread.

2008
Arena: Charlotte, Phoenix
Dome/Stadium: Detroit, Houston

2009
Arena: Boston, Memphis
Dome: Glendale, Indianapolis

2010
Arena: Salt Lake City
Dome: Cuse, St. Louis, Houston

[VictorSkyPage]

flhoya said:

Couple points:

1. Agreed that in a NCAA Tournament setting, the domed stadium should affect both teams equally.

I think this is what it boils down to.. if in fact there are no scientific aspects or any substantial evidence that suggests there is something difficult about shooting/playing in a dome

just win everywhere... the hoyas are already good at that.. the experience last night will only help them going into the tourney

[miamihoya]

where is all this talk of a "saturday night bash" coming from? Does anyone know this for sure that the players were out partying or is it pure speculation?

[71hoya]

I think the issue with the Carrrier Dome has to do with depth perception. The place is huge and there is no background. Remember that our Frosh and Sophs had never been there. The last time Green and Roy were there was Jan 05 (a loss in overtime)

[prhoya]

It's pure speculation, just like the 3s-in-a-dome speculation and the many others here.

I thought the "some lovin'" would be a hint that it's a joke. Sometimes you have to spell it out for some people here.

My speculation is based on experience. I'm not on campus to know what goes on now. I could tell you (I will not) of the parties the team had when I was a fellow Village A resident, Dwayne Bryant as a bikini contest judge at Winston's (the bar at 33rd & M St. (I'm not sure what it's called now), etc...

The players back then (1987-1991: the Dikembe-Zo-Charles Smith-Tillmon-Bryant years) were celebrities.

Go Hoyas! Beat UConn! Enjoy college while staying focused!

[Grandpa]

miamihoya said:

where is all this talk of a "saturday night bash" coming from? Does anyone know this for sure that the players were out partying or is it pure speculation?

I thought the "hard partying" excuse was the reason we lost to ODU ?

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