Crowd Behavior

[ColumbiaHeightsHoya]

I want to get the opinion of those on this board since it can effect all types of sporting events. I am a bitter Pacers fan right now who feels that the Detroit fan base is being encouraged, not discouraged, from this type of behavior in the future since they essentially eliminated the top contending team in the east (who had just blasted them by 15 on their home floor without five of our players who are on IR) throught their actions. I would hate to see something like this happen to our hoyas but I don't think it is out of the realm of possibilities unless the correct steps are taken by the NBA which hasn't happened yet (despite all of the suspensions).

[chinatownfanclub]

I don't think it was a planned event by the fans, but I do think that (like in European soccer) the Pistons should be forced to play their next 2-3 home games w/ all fans banned from attending. The economic pressure that would cause on the Pistons to take some affirmative steps to control fan behavior would be clear. I think the punishments while severe were justified. There is no excuse for going into the stands, however it has happened before (Vernon Maxwell and he got a ten game suspension). I think the suspensions will end up being reduced by an arbitrator, but I think it sends a very strong message to fans and players that there is a line that should never be crossed.

[TrueHoyaBlue]

I think the fans who were involved in the incident (particularly those who tossed beer onto the court) should be banned from the stadium, and have their season tickets revoked. I'm not sure what the appropriate response is for the next pistons-pacers game, but maybe play it with the 100-level of the stadium empty.

(In addition to proving a point, it could really give the arena an eerie, gladiator-esque echoing feel).

[Cambridge]

I don't think Artest will get any time back...Sprewell lost 68 games in 97 or 98 (?) and that was just for assualting his coach.

Let's be honest. Artest started the whole thing and deserves everything he gets. You doubt it? Let's review the facts...

1) He fouls Ben Wallace hard with less than a minute left in a 15 point blowout...
2) Wallace angered by Artest blatant attempt to injure him in a game that was long over...wheels around and shoves artest
3) This lead to a push and shove match between Pacers and Pistons
4) Artest removes himself and lies on the scorer table with a smug expression on his face while teammates restrain Wallace
5) A fan tosses a cup of ice onto Artest
6) Artest storms into the stands and attacks a fan he thinks attacked him
7) Stephen Jackson joins Artest in the stands and starts punching spectators
8) Eddie Gill, Fred Jones, Rasheed Wallace and others attempt to break up fight between Pacers and fans
9) Piston fan walks up to Artest and challenges him, Artest decks him...a second fan helping the downed fan is punched in the face by Jermaine ONeal
10) Pacers leave the floor and are showered with beer and other debris
11) Tinsley and other Pacers attempt to return to the floor, weilding a chair or a trashcan...and are restrained

So basically, Artest flagrantly fouls Wallace, backs off like a chicken while his teammates fight the pistons, then incites the ire of the crowd...then to defend his manhood he attacks fans....

What an idiot..

I know as a Pacers fan you are Editeded at having your season shot to hell, but honestly you should be Editeded at Artest and the other boneheads for being such idiots.

Punishing the fans is an interesting idea, unfortunately it unfairly punishes all of the fans for the actions of two individual fans.

1) The fan who tossed his cup should have been arrested right away and banned from the arena for life.
2) The fan who stepped onto the court, same deal

All the others...um...self-defense and nothing more. Once the Pacer's crossed the line into the crowd, those fans had the right to defend themselves...

I'll ask you this, what if in the fight, Artest or ONeal had landed a punch like Kermit Washington's and killed or maimed a fan...what then?

Similarly, what if a fan had done the same to Artest or ONeal?

My point is that situation has to be avoided at all costs, so an example must be made of the players. They are not suspended the entire Pacers team, just those who threw punches. Similarly, you can not punish all fans, just those who did wrong. The fans can be contained and dealt with individually.

[HoyaFanNY]

imo, the pistons fans and organization are as much to blame as the pacers players. artest, oneal, and jackson deserve to be suspended, but i thought stephen jackson was as much as fault as artest. i thought artest and jackson should have gotten 30 games, with o'neal getting 15. fans that throw bottles and everything else are cowards and punks. the two jerks on the court deserved the beating they got from artest and o'neal. the fans should be identified and banned from the palace and the pistons organization should be fined heavily for not being prepared to handle this kind of situation. the punishment from naploeon stern was far too harsh toward the pacers.

[jackdog74]

As a long-time Piston fan I am utterly embarrassed by the behavior of our fans at the Palace. First, those fans who threw ANYTHING should never be allowed to another sporting event ever. Not just the Pistons, but all sports, all arenas. If casinos can keep certain cheaters out, the sports teams can keep these clowns out. Second, I do not think there will be too many NBA players jumping into arenas with Artest's suspension. Just the opposite, players are going to think long and hard about doing this based on how much coin Artest is losng. Plus, there will be charges filed against the fans so fans will know that the authorities will prosecute. You don't think the Pistons are going to make darned sure this happens? Finally, you have no idea how utterly embarrassed the whole town is. Detroit has been trying so hard for years to clean up their image from the '67 riots and the championship debacles of '84 and '89. Unfortunately, Friday's night events put this city back at least 20 years in trying to make the city seem like a good place. Trust me, I doubt there will be too many people tyring to emulate the "example" Pistons fans set the other night. The whole week-end was made worse by the Wolverines, Spartans and Lions all losing in heartbreaking fashion.

[Fan Of The Game]

Artest never should have gone into the stands, I don't think anyone doubts that. But I'll credit him with showing great restraint when Wallace first popped him one and then later threw a towel at him. Clearly those anger management classes paid off for a little while. He took the high road, albeit for only five minutes.

The fan throwing ice on him was just the final straw that set him loose.

I would have given him a 30 game suspension.

[Churchwell]

Not that I want to stir the pot...just want to give an additional perspective (albeit an exteme one).

I think Artest and Jackson got off easy. They should be suspended from the NBA for at least 2-3 years, if not forever. These are professional athletes who get paid very well to do their job - a job that is really a game. It is a priviledge for them to have the chance to play in a league like the NBA. They have an obligation to conduct themselves, at the very least on the floor and in the arena, in a way that reflects their respect for the fact that they are lucky to live in a society that values the entertainment value of their sport in such a fashion.

This is not to say that the fans should get away with their behavior. Season ticket holders involved in the brawl (and the events leading up to the brawl) should have their tickets revoked without reimbursment and be banned from entering an NBA arena ever again. They should also be subject to whatever form of punishment the law allows.

I do think that the fans who went onto the floor to confront the players are just as bad as Artest and Jackson. In a way they deserve what they got...getting pummled by conditioned athletes with superior physical gifts. It is a shame Artest and Jackson couldn't get the same treatment in the stands.

I recognize the hypocrisy of my opinion - players like Artest and Jackson are punished far more than the fans for their transgressions. They have more to lose, however, and should make smarter choices. I do think that all sports leagues should be more aggressive about preventing and confronting unruly fans. Whether it be via curtailing alchohol sales or just be making an example of people who get out of line. Clearly it is time. This is just the latest and most eggregious situation, but it's not new.

[SFHoya99]

Five year ban on alcohol at all Pistons games.

[ColumbiaHeightsHoya]

Cambridge, not sure what game you were watching, but I saw more then one fan joining in. I saw what seemed like 30-50 fans throwing things down into the tunnel area. I saw fans throwing blindside shots at Pacers who were trying to stop the actions of their fellow players. Items 1-3 are false. That wasn't even a hard foul. I wouldn't even get upset if someone did that to me in Yates. Big ben went after Artest and kept coming at him as his teammates were holding him back. I like the idea of no alcohol at Pistons games, I like the idea of banning ALL fans from the rest of the Pistons games for the year. I sympathize with the Pistons fan on this board as I think we had a great rivalry going and it was fun to watch. Extreme measures have to be taken against the fans of Detroit and Wilson who is the CEO of the Palace (I think) has done nothing but condemn the Pacers. While these guys are professional athletes, they don't have to put up with that much crap and just like many others on this board, I think the fans squaring off against Pacers on the court deserve to get severely beaten. Unfortunately, they will probably sue and win in our society. Jermaine O'Neal wouldn't even be involved in this if the Palace's security could have contained the court & tunnel. That is when he got involved as he came to the defense of his teammates. I don't care if he is seven foot, 260, you don't know what some nut is going to do and they invaded the court & tunnel which should be off limits (just like the players shouldn't go to the stands). I think Stern needs to take a real look at this as I feel O'neal should get 5 games MAX. Jackson & Artest deserve what they got (and I am a pacers fan here). D Town needs to get an equal punishment and I would even say ban the pistons from the playoffs. How is that for extreme?

[Cambridge]

So what you're saying is that in an alternative universe....

During the ALCS game in New York when the officials correctly reversed the original call and ARod was correctly called out at first base for illegally knocking the ball out of Aroyo's glove...

and the Yankee fans started chucking batteries, plastic bottles, cups, hats, gloves, bats, etc onto the field and the game was stopped while riot police were brought in...

it would have been totally acceptable for Manny Ramirez, having been hit by cups of tobacco juice and cups of beer (he was)...to storm into the stands of Yankee stadium and start punching the offenders...

Then David Ortiz comes rushing out of the dugout across the field and into the stands to help Manny.

This would be ok and they would should only be suspended for 5-10 games?!?!?!

Hmmmm....I think I disagree

[Whoya]

ColumbiaHeightsHoya said:

I am a bitter Pacers fan right now who feels that the Detroit fan base is being encouraged, not discouraged, from this type of behavior in the future since they essentially eliminated the top contending team in the east (who had just blasted them by 15 on their home floor without five of our players who are on IR) throught their actions.

The fans didn't eliminate the top contending team in the East, the Pacers did. You have security for a reason, the players should never go into the stands for any reason other than a loose ball. Artest should be banned forever.

If you assaulted the man who pays your check, would you be seen in that office ever again?

Not saying the fans weren't wrong to do what some of them did, but there is no excuse for what Artest did. Hope his rap career does well, because I don't think he should be allowed to ever suit up in the NBA again.

[ColumbiaHeightsHoya]

Watch the video of the chump that actually threw the beer and then tell me he didn't deserve to get clocked (which he did after the initial pummeling of the wrong guy). This idiot was on TV and they asked him about the sucker punches he threw after Artest went past him and he says he doesn't remember.

All I am saying is that your facts aren't correct. Vernon Maxwell did the same thing and got ten games. How are things that much different here?

[Churchwell]

In a bar or out on the street, perhaps the guy deserved to be clocked. Certainly he'd be taking his chances. But a professional athlete storming the bleachers because someone threw a beer at him...after he left the court and laid down on the scorer's table...essentially putting himself within spitting distance of the fans? I might even see my way clear to give Artest some leeway had the guy thrown a bottle of beer or a battery...making it a much more dangerous situation. But jumping into the stands to fight a guy because he threw a plastic cup full of beer at you? Had Artest shown a modicum of restraint this story would actually be all about unruly hooligan fans and how they are ruining sport. As for the rest of the melee in the tunnel...it's certainly not right, but what do you expect when you antagonize an entire hostile arena by attacking not just the guilty fan, but any fan in the general vicinity? No one should be surprised that the Pacers would be showered with whatever liquid or otherwise that was available as they made their way through the tunnel. As Wilbon put it in todays Post, this wasn't even Artest's third strike, it was his fifth. He and Jackson should thank their lucky stars that they will have a chance to suit up again in the NBA. If I acted that way in my line of work I would certainly lose my job and it would follow me around for the rest of my life. Pacers fans should look no further than Ron Artest in assigning blame to potentially ruining their season. He blew it. Big time.