Is this team our best offensive team ever?

[HoyaSpirit]

a tough game overall, but our starting 5 is almost unstoppable on offense. i'm realizing this offense might be talked about in years to come as one of our best ever (so far anyway) - have we had a better offense ever?

i was there from 86-91 and don't remember a better overall offense. every guy can do major damage. 4 guys who can bury the 3.

every one can drive (well, roy sort of). at least 3 guys can post. serious. Across all 5 starters individually and a team - with the BE 3 point leader, the NCAA fg leader, plus green, summer and sapp - is this the best we've had ever?

[theexorcist]

Iverson and Paige were a lethal combo. With Othella and Jerome and Jahidi getting rebounds, that team would at least factor in. Two very different teams. Would be an interesting game, if nothing else.

And, lest we forget, Villanova put a few kinks in that "unstoppable" offense today.

[guru]

Any team with Iverson on it had a shot to win most games, but that '96 doesn't measure up to any of the great teams from the 80s. And I'm not sure any of those teams - in terms of offensive execution - could measure up to the current squad. This is the best-coached Hoya team I've ever seen.

[HoyaChris]

This is, I believe, the best offensive team in terms of half court execution. Hard to pick against the Ewing teams, though, that got 15-25 points a game out of their defensive pressure.

[aggypryd]

Definitely not the most talented team that we've ever had, but the motion of the offense alone makes it a lot better than the bulk of the Hoya squads that I recall.

[njcoach]

Getting ahead of ourselves, I think. Just think about the 84-85 team that had Ewing, Billy Martin, David Wingate, Reggie Williams, Perry McDonald, and Michael Jackson. Broadnax was a pretty nice player, too.

I like this system better. Personal preference.

[jwp91]

Iverson's teams certainly weren't better offensively. While Iverson was incredible offensively, the rest of the team would stand and watch. It was the anti-thesis of the team basketball we are seeing now.

[Elvado]

Just imagine the numbers the 1984-85 Hoyas would have put up with a 35 second clock and a 3 pointer.

Wingate, Williams, Jackson, Broadnax all had lethal 3 point range on their shots.

[saxagael]

The basketball intelligence of this team is incredible, which comes from coaching and determination to get better. Pure talent it may not be the best, but combined with coaching and b-ball smarts it is tough to beat.

[HealyHoya]

vadie said:

Just imagine the numbers the 1984-85 Hoyas would have put up with a 35 second clock and a 3 pointer.

Wingate, Williams, Jackson, Broadnax all had lethal 3 point range on their shots.

I think this is the key point: combine the defensive pressure of that team, ewing in the post AND a three-point line and that team would have been ridiculous...

of course, that three point line wasn't there...i'd still take the 84-85 team, then this squad, then AI's team

[miracles87]

This is an interesting question. In terms of execution, this team has stretches of breathtaking play. Working the ball side to side, inside and out, getting open jumpers and crushing backdoors. The great 80's teams played a different style, relying more on defense, rebounding and driving and dishing to an open big man. It is frightening to think what AI's teams might have looked like had they been coached by JT3, whoa. Certainly, while O and Jerome and Reid weren't on the level of Pat's or Zo's best front lines, they had depth and probably wouldn't have been exposed like they were at times, in this system.

Back in the day, my Pops would always say, "I'd love to sit in on the last 3 minutes of practice, to see Coach work on offense". Lets face it, the great Hoyas teams of JT2 didn't remind anyone of say, the Hoosiers teams of that era, though they were quite effective. The 89 team, the last time the Hoyas were a true fave to win it all, had the goods in spades. Fearless and precise leadership from Smitty, good shooting and driving by powerful upperclass guards Tillmon and Bryant. Jaren Jackson and Bobby Winston on the wing, Dominant inside play by the monstrous Alonzo, with able depth in John Turner and Sam Jefferson, and, everyone knew their role. I mean, that team was freaking loaded. I couldn't pick this years squad to beat that club. That said, if everyone stays, and we can integrate our frosh next year, that would be a team I wouldn't pick anyone to beat...

[hoyarooter]

It's been awhile since I have seen the words "able" and "Sam Jefferson" in the same sentence.

[miracles87]

lol, perhaps I should edit in the word 'warm'. Still, Turner could surely play, and Milton Bell was another solid bench player.

Sam was a solid citizen who looks great in a suit. See him downtown from time to time.

[ninetyoner]

Let's not forget that the '89 squad, as good as it was, got taken to the buzzer by PRINCETON, running our exact offense, with less talent than we currently have. On the other hand, I think all of JT II's teams would, including the Iverson teams, never let a team that plays our style get comfortable in our offense, much like Villanova has done to us this year. I think that is why JT II is a bit contemptuous of his son's offense. A team with a lot of depth and defensive toughness can make it tough on a Princeton team. JTII's guys would have flattened any attempt to back door and would have hounded our slower guards to death in the backcourt. The '85 team, the '89 team and the '96 squad would have scored a ton of points on offensive putbacks and off of turnovers. This year's team would have to shoot the lights out to beat them. Of course, that was always the formula for beating a JT II coached team, limit your turnovers and work for open shots and hit them. The '89 Hoyas v. the 2007 Hoyas would be a very fun game to watch.

[Filo]

I agree that that the '85 team would be a very tough draw for the current Hoyas -- the defensive pressure, athleticism and rebounding especially. But I think the talent level of the current team is getting short shrift, with everyone stressing how well-coached they are and how important the offensive system is. These are some very talented guys who happen to play in a great system.

[HoyaSpirit]

Alright - viewing all these responses I likely give the edge in offense to the 85 team followed by this team, then either the 89 team or the Ivo team. I'm considering offense as our overall offensive ability - so points off defense are not truly part of the mix. Being good at fast breaks I would count. So overall it's: fast break ability, half-court ability vs. man, vs zone, etc. I don't give a huge advantage to the 85 squad because I think Roy overall is a better offensive player than Patrick when you count passing, and everything else - and I think Patrick even said the same on TV recently. Also, while some of the 85ers could shoot the 3 darn well, I never felt like JT2 knew how to beat zone defenses very well, that his overall offensive coaching was weak and his game management of the offense was weak. I like this team better than the 89 team b/c I was there and Zo at that stage did not have the offensive ability of either Jeff or Roy and was still a fair bit herky jerky, and JT2 when he had leads often tried to run down the shot clock resulting in horrible shots and swings in momentum against us. I also think that Wallace with his 3 pt average is ahead of any of those guys, Roy with his 70 percent (?) fg percentag is a monster, and our guys are good at beating zone, man, and other approaches. Our main weakness is when a quick team like Nova overplays the ballhandler (making it hard to do backdoors) and that can be overcome by burning the guy overplaying you by dribbling around him toward the hoop. Get a layout up or a 2 on 1.

If we keep deal with that, and keep up our recent level of play, I might give the edge to this squad.

[VictorSkyPage]

If we are just talking about best offensive team (not matching up against other squads, just straight up offense).. then I think this is definitely the best in terms of efficiency and versatility.
Every guy can hurt you in multiple ways and the passing ability and court vision from these players is just absurd. Frankly, I think this is the most well-coached Hoya team I've ever seen and that certainly factors in when assessing whether or not this is the best offensive team ever (when it comes down to it, the coaching puts this squad over the top).

[JB5]

The '84-'85 team was great all around, but '81-'82 might have been better offensively. By the end of the season, Ewing was all but unstoppable, but Sleepy, Eric Smith, etc. killed opponents that tried to collapse on him. In the NCAAs that year, the Hoyas shot over 60% and won their tournament games (until the final) by an average of 15 points. I'm probably not alone on this board in believing that if Brown hadn't thrown that pass, there's no way Sleepy would NOT have hit the game winner.

[SirSaxa]

je3 said:

The '84-'85 team was great all around, but '81-'82 might have been better offensively. By the end of the season, Ewing was all but unstoppable, but Sleepy, Eric Smith, etc. killed opponents that tried to collapse on him. In the NCAAs that year, the Hoyas shot over 60% and won their tournament games (until the final) by an average of 15 points. [b] I'm probably not alone on this board in believing that if Brown hadn't thrown that pass, there's no way Sleepy would NOT have hit the game winner

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That would be correct. You are NOT alone. Sleepy was cutting to the basket and open.
That is what made Brown's pass even more unbelieveable -- he had the open guy right in front of him. Brown just had an inexplicable momentary lapse.... But he also had a solid career and was on the '84 championship team.

After "the pass" he was distraught, and JT-Pops hugged him. How JT-Pops handled the enormous disappointment at that moment... just remarkable.

But we are in a new age with a new JT!
and he's every bit as able and remarkable as his dad.

And all of us are lucky as hell to be part of this Hoya Hoops tradition!

[1984alloveragain]

The hug from POPS to Freddie Brown is what MADE me a Hoya Fan. It's what got me into coaching for over a decade. It's what made me OBSESSED with EVERYTHING in the HOYA universe... That's why I can't wait for more happier hugs in April someday...