njcoach
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 356
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Post by njcoach on Feb 19, 2007 12:02:40 GMT -5
;D Both of you are correct...I think we just need another flash point to rekindle it. Perhaps if the son of a Georgetown immortal bumps Coach Boeheim?
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Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by Filo on Feb 19, 2007 12:21:03 GMT -5
People talking about St. Johns as one of our biggest rivals need to put their walkers aside and sit down. I get as excited about playing St. Johns these days as I do about playing Navy. (Except Navy has some fans). History is important in determining top rivals, clearly, but so is relevancy. Iona is more relevant in CBB today than St. Johns. So. Top 5. Ahh, you young turks show no respect for your elders. You raise a good point. SJU has just been horrible, so it is tough to get up or them. By the same token, look at what a 'Cuse fan has been saying about us -- the Hoyas were so lame for a while there, that 'Cuse fans lost interest in the rivalry and UConn has taken over. Now I don't really believe that, but there is a glimmer of truth there. By including ND and WVU, you are really just basing your rankings on recent history, though, which is no more correct than basing it on ancient history. What is to say that ND, for example, is going to keep up their program and stay at the Hoyas level over the next several years. If they don't, surely that "rivalry" will diminish. So, I don't think i would include ND or WVU just yet. You need a bit more history to have a real rivalry.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2007 12:26:36 GMT -5
People talking about St. Johns as one of our biggest rivals need to put their walkers aside and sit down. I get as excited about playing St. Johns these days as I do about playing Navy. (Except Navy has some fans). History is important in determining top rivals, clearly, but so is relevancy. Iona is more relevant in CBB today than St. Johns. So. Top 5. 1. Cuse 2. Nova 3. WVU 4. ND 5. UConn 6. Maryland (honorary - here for recruiting purposes) Not sure if I agree with your SJU assessment. SUcks fans could say the same about us (in fact, many believe You Con to be their biggest rival based on what's gone down the past decade). The fact is, as Insomniac mentioned our biggest rivals are SUcks, Vanillanova, and everyone else. We either (a) don't have the history or mutual distaste with the team (WVU, ND) or (b) the team has been down for a VERY long time (SJU). Either way, after those two, everyone else can scrap and claw for third.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Feb 19, 2007 12:45:31 GMT -5
1)Syracuse 2)St John's 3)Villanova 4)WVU 5)Notre Dame
6)Maryland---would be much higher if teams actually played. In terms of rivalry and anatgonism amongst fans its right up there.
220)WG
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by hoyainspirit on Feb 19, 2007 13:46:15 GMT -5
1)Syracuse 2)St John's 3)Villanova 4)WVU 5)Notre Dame 6)Maryland---would be much higher if teams actually played. In terms of rivalry and anatgonism amongst fans its right up there. 220)WG 220)WGPost of the day! ;D
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Post by IlladelpHoya on Feb 19, 2007 13:48:07 GMT -5
Buff, good points, but I'm starting to sense a pretty healthy distaste w/ WVU ... they've got a couple of things that bode well for a long term rivalry ... a good coach who will always get the most out of his players (continued success for them), reasonable proximity (3.5-4 hours), a handful of key games over the past few years, and a fan base that, well, to put it politely, are a bunch of Editedbags.
I love it when SU comes to town and their fans are here ... gets me amped. Same is starting to happen when WVU is here ... Only difference is when WVU fans come into town I want to hide the fine china.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2007 13:54:33 GMT -5
Buff, good points, but I'm starting to sense a pretty healthy distaste w/ WVU ... they've got a couple of things that bode well for a long term rivalry ... a good coach who will always get the most out of his players (continued success for them), reasonable proximity (3.5-4 hours), a handful of key games over the past few years, and a fan base that, well, to put it politely, are a bunch of Editedbags. I love it when SU comes to town and their fans are here ... gets me amped. Same is starting to happen when WVU is here ... Only difference is when WVU fans come into town I want to hide the fine china. Good points, I assume (haven't lived in DC minus the summers of '04 and '05 in five years), but... ... " starting to sense" does not a rivalry make. Time will tell.
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YB
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by YB on Feb 19, 2007 14:01:31 GMT -5
Maybe:
-Cuse (I think there's respect and rivalry there- remember, we also won the day they dedicated the Jimmy Gym in 2002).
-Vanillanova: especially if both teams keep winning.
-Notre Dame: Too many close games not to be here.
-SJU: They beat us when they were winless in conference. They are still a rival; they always get up for us.
-Pitt: This one is underrated. Just battles, back and forth, close games over the past few years. When Pitt got good in 2001, this became a rivalry.
-WVU: This team always seems to play us tough.
-Puke-onn: If they ever make the Big Dance again, we can consider this one a rivalry.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Feb 19, 2007 16:41:56 GMT -5
Can cuse please dedicate something next time we play them to help heat this rivalry back up. I'm thinking somethign along the line of Retiring McNamara's Jersey or somethign like that.
I think ND and WV jsut fall into a categorey of I just don't liek their fans and schools. they're pretty much just awful people so i don't like them but in terms of basketball rivalry it's not there as much. My top three hae always been Cuse, Nova, and Uconn. I have a lot of bad memeories of loses to Uconn.
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JimmyHoya
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Hoya fan, est. 1986
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Post by JimmyHoya on Feb 19, 2007 17:40:11 GMT -5
I really don't see UConn as a rival. The only reason people can be bitter about them are the Iverson/Allen years and the fact that we haven't beaten them since then.....not really a rivalry, before or after.
I think WVU is quickly becoming a rivlary simply for how PO'ed everyone gets at them. Is it just me or does anyone else feel like the week leading up to their games seem like leading up to a BET game? It's not just the supposed rednecks vs. civilization jokes, I really, really like beating them. I put them on the same level as St. John's in that I worry about the games more so than I think I should, despite the difference in the quality of the teams.
I think we have the biggest rivalry in the nation between schools that never play in Maryland. Man do I despise them.
ND seems important, but I'm not sure why. I think it is a less intense example of the "Duke Complex" that makes the game and opponent seem more important because of their name and a notable past contest or two.
I'd rate it as:
1. Cuse 2. 'nova 3. SJU/WVU/ND 4. UMD
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mapei
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by mapei on Feb 19, 2007 17:49:57 GMT -5
1. Cuse (seems near unanimous) 2. UConn if we start making it competitive. Hard to call it a rivalry when they've beat us like a drum for a gazillion years. But it could very quickly become one.
3. Everybody else. You need a combination of history and current validity, and I just don't see it even with Nova, certainly not with WVU. Notre Dame, maybe, and I agree that Marquette could become one over time.
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by MCIGuy on Feb 19, 2007 18:02:51 GMT -5
^^How you ever put UConn over Nova or St John's or even a WVU or ND is a mystery to me. Perhaps you have a fixation of UConn and you're blowing the rivalry up.
And if current validity is so important then I suppose during the last years of JT and during the Esh era the Hoyas would have been no one rivals!
Rivalries can cool off because one team or another becomes pathetic and unworthy of mention. But the rivalry itself never goes away. St John's has history dating back way before the Big East. And the battles between the two teams in the 80s were things of legend. Yes, neither team appears to be the MAIN rival for the other team's fanbase as of right now (St John's fans save most of their venom for UConn). However that doesn't wipe away decades of competitve, inspired battles as well as dislike amongst fans. Also when it comes to Nova the '85 championship game, the similarity of the schools and the somewhat close geographical distance between the schools will always make the two programs (Gtown - Villanova) rivals. Besides both teams are good right now which I would guess suggests there is plenty of current validity between them at this point.
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mapei
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Post by mapei on Feb 19, 2007 18:05:48 GMT -5
>I suppose during the last years of JT and during the Esh era the Hoyas would have been no one rivals
Actually, that's pretty much what I believe! An exception would be if games came right down to the wire almost every time, regardless of whether the teams were equal or not in a given year. Then you know you have rivalry potential.
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JimmyHoya
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Hoya fan, est. 1986
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Post by JimmyHoya on Feb 19, 2007 18:32:47 GMT -5
Um, why do you people care more about UConn than Marquette or Louisville or any other decent BE team? I'm really drawing a blank on why I should care about the Huskies. The only reasons I can come up with is that everyone gets worried about the pending stomping/will we actually win this time. Even back when Iverson and Allen would duel common sentiment was a lot closer to "uh oh, #1 ranked UConn is coming to town" than "Those bastards from Storrs" whereas it is always "to hell with Jimmy B and Moten/Rat Face/'melo/etc." or "Can 'nova just please play this one time without doing something sleazy?" like true rivalries with 'cuse and 'nova.
As one new student who has many friends in Philly and appreciates the awfulness of '85 said to me on Saturday, "this is the most satisfying Hoya win for me, ever." Not Marquette? Not WVU? Not a pounding *knock on wood* of UConn? Not even when we beat Duke? Nope, the only thing that could potentially top it would be seeing Syracuse trampled at the Carrier Dome or another 'nova beatdown.
Trying to push a UConn rivalry is like pushing a Duke one. It just isnt there.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2007 18:50:18 GMT -5
Trying to push a UConn rivalry is like pushing a Duke one. It just isnt there. Couldn't have said it better myself. 1 - SUcks 2 - Vanillanova 3 - everyone else
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SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by SirSaxa on Feb 19, 2007 19:26:41 GMT -5
St John's has history dating back way before the Big East. And the battles between the two teams in the 80s were things of legend. Yes, neither team appears to be the MAIN rival for the other team's fanbase as of right now. However that doesn't wipe away decades of competitve, inspired battles as well as dislike amongst fans. That's absolutely correct. With the aid of my walker, I was able to get clear across the library to a dusty old shelf of historical books (WOW - REAL BOOKS!) to look up a few actual facts. (Facts? We don't need no stinkin' facts!) We have played SJU a total of 88 times, dating back to 1909. Now THAT is a rivalry. (Syracuse is a " Johnnie come lately". We didn't even Start to play them until 20 years after SJU.) And as bad as everyone says the Johnnies are, we hadn't beaten them at MSG since 1997, until we finally won last year. Here's another reason. A helluva lot of Hoyas come from (or move to) the NYC metropolitan area. LI, CT, Westchester, NYC, North Jersey. SJU gets a lot of Pub in the local media. And for many alumni, the only chance they get to see the Hoyas live each year is the SJU game at the Garden. Winning that game means a LOT! If/when Norm Roberts can get SJU competitive on a consistent basis, there is nothing like a rivalry game at MSG. ND -- we've only played them a total of 21 times! Uconn? We didn't play them at all until 1959. WVU? Between 1940 and 1995 we only played them ONCE! Marquette? Our most recent game was the Fifth time we played them -- ever! Rivalries don't just spring up over night. It is the years of tradition that really MAKES a rivalry. OK, one last set of facts for all those who are dying to know and might not be able to get to their walkers. We have played Syracuse a total of 76 times... including that excruciating game in the BET last March. They have won 41 to our 35. If we only count BE games, that excruciating game was their 30th win against us, breaking the tie as we have won 29. But we can win our 30th on Feb 26th!!! Just think how much noise we can make at the Verizon center if everyone bangs their walkers together!!! WE ARE - - GEORGETOWN!!
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by DFW HOYA on Feb 19, 2007 20:15:00 GMT -5
The fact that this is not clear-cut speaks to the fact that Georgetown doesn't share the deep rivalries that other schools enjoy.
The best rivalries tie schools by a) atheltics, b) admissions overlaps, and c) distance. Harvard-Yale has all three, but Harvard-Stanford isn't the same.
Forty years ago, names like St. Joe's, Fordham and NYU would have been on the Georgetown list. Twenty years ago, it was probably Syracuse, St. John's, Villanova, and BC.
Maryland fell off the rivalry lists 25 years ago; strangely, Virginia and Georgetown would seem to be a good fit but it's never come together.
As far as Big East basketball goes, here's one list:
****= Syracuse ***= Villanova, Notre Dame **= St. John's, UConn, PC, Pitt, S. Hall (the old guard) *= WV, Louisville, Cincinnati, Rutgers, Marquette, DePaul 0= South Florida
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tgo
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by tgo on Feb 19, 2007 21:00:44 GMT -5
1. Cuse 2. Nova
big gap
3. Uconn 4. ND/SJU
i dont really care about maryland although it would be nice to play them every year and i certianly dont care about GW
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hoyaclap
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by hoyaclap on Feb 19, 2007 21:24:46 GMT -5
I think that people are down on us being a UConn rival, as sad as it is, because they've perpetually beat that ass. On quick glance, We've beaten them 1 time since 93-94! And in the 80's , we used to give it to them too. UConn could def develop into something if the two programs can sustain excellence at the same time. I don't know remember who the poster was who compared the feasibility of a Duke rivalry to a UConn one (even though it was to say it would be futile) but I wholeheartedly disagree. Duke has absolutely nothing to do with us, but UConn has been a staple of power in this Conference for a long time, picking up the ball we essentially dropped in the 90's. And If we can sustain this level of excellence, it will be glorious to look back on this upcoming decade to determine the real flagship Big East Basketball program.
1. Syracuse 2. St. Johns 3. Villanova 4. Rest of Old Big East 5. Rest of New Big East I hope they die and burn in hell: UMCP
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