jacko
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GET SOME
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Post by jacko on Feb 13, 2007 12:15:48 GMT -5
1. I would have liked to see a harder bump from Ewing, maybe even a jersey grab or something. That's probably just me, though.
2. I wonder how big of a deal Joakim Noah's T was last year against us, effectively jeopardizing their chances of winning their ONLY close game in the tourney... a tourney that we know they were capable of winning. How did Gator fans react to that? Or were they just happy to get away with a W? Hifigator?
3. Anyone who thinks a technical foul against a tired WVU team while up 24 at home is a big deal is kidding himself.
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Post by HeartAttackHoya on Feb 13, 2007 12:16:05 GMT -5
as I signed to Hoyatalk, I was hoping this would not be up for discussion. On a team dominated by quiet superstars (Green and Hibbert) and a soft-spoken point guard from Bama, I have to agree with the posts. As long as no punches were thrown, point was taken by WVU and SportsCenter nation that this team plays with fire..Jr. was looking out for his teammate and as ESPN said "Gave him a little love tap" to let him know how we felt about the out of control unecessary play. No Harm, No Foul.
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cincyhoya
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by cincyhoya on Feb 13, 2007 12:23:06 GMT -5
I think if we had an on campus arena (which is all Escherick's fault), this would have been okay. Oh yeah, and we don't have a metro stop because of Bee line and Calhoun and Boeheim. It's all a conspiracy... enough already...
Nova on Saturday! Time to boost the record against top 50 RPI! (too bad people don't look at top 50 KenPom - we'd be top10 undoubtedly)...
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edstimes
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by edstimes on Feb 13, 2007 12:26:09 GMT -5
It weaves perfectly into his previous quote: "i cant argue the stats as i dont feel like looking them up. but i bet those stats understate the problem given that they include a ton of end of game heaves as teams tried to catch up. if you were to look at our 3pt defense in the 1st half, i think it would tell a far different story. a number of teams (cincy, sju, louisville) were on fire against us from 3 when they werent desperation shots. im seriously. " Well WVU finished 9-26 split this way: 3-18 until garbage time 6-8 after the game was long since over. It must have been more aggressive shooting and not garbage time defense...seriously. sheesh. if you really want me to back up my point, try to follow along. facts: halftime score 37-20 time of The Bump around ~16 min mark of 2nd half score at the time of The Bump 48-24 hibbert usually plays majority of 2nd half unless there foul trouble hibbert benched with 3 fouls at 14:23 mark of 2nd half hibbert returns off the bench ~ 10 minute mark of 2nd half score when hibbert is benched 48-24 score when hibbert returns 52-30 Garbage Time ~ 4 minute mark of 2nd half score at start of Garbage Time 67-40 so when hibbert was in the game in the 2nd half pre-The Bump Distraction, the hoyas scored 11 points in 4 minutes. wvu score 4 points in those 4 minutes. in the 4.5 minutes hibbert sat, the hoyas scored 4 points. wvu scored 6 points. so with hibbert out, the hoyas score at ~32% of the rate as with him in. and they allow ~1.33x as many points. if you extrapolate this ROUGH rates of points scored and points allowed for the entire ~12 minutes that were remaining before Garbage Time, the score at Garbage time would have been around 81-38, a lead of 43 points. instead it was 67-40, a lead of 23 points. assuming the same scoring in garbage time, the final score would have been 85-51, a 34 point victory. yes of course i know this makes a lot of assumptions, but what is irrefuatable is that The Bump really stahled our offense for 5 minutes. If you were watching the game you would have felt the same thing without having to look at the stats. We were scoring at will and wvu could barely hit the side of a barn. And at the time of The Bump, wvu was tired and totally demoralized. The Bump pumped adrenaline into their systems and they got a boost. If anything, without The Bump, we probably could have increased the rate of our scoring and decreased the rate of theirs if we wanted so the difference would have been even huger. But im sure given the type of guy JTIII is, he would have started garbage time a lot sooner. He is such a good coach. Im glad to hear he was not happy with ewing and let him know as much. even though it may not seem like a big deal to some boaders here, it is. discipline is key, maybe even more important than talent. green, hibbert and wallace were not the most talented players out of high school, but with the right coach and discipline, are now awesome. discipline problems can spread across a team if not addressed firmly and immediately. if coach hadnt been upset, other guys on the team might start emulating bad habits. coach has been been working with ewing on this all year and he has come a long long way. just more work to do. i think we will see a different ewing emerge out of all of this. that is the silver lining. IM SERIOUSLY! Shameful, vicious post. Please suspend this user's account **
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bubbrubbhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
We are the intuitive minds that plot the course. Woo-WOOO!
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Post by bubbrubbhoya on Feb 13, 2007 12:42:24 GMT -5
Someone has to say it, so I will. Pope. Shut up. Amen.
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Post by coloradohoya on Feb 13, 2007 12:48:41 GMT -5
as I signed to Hoyatalk, I was hoping this would not be up for discussion. On a team dominated by quiet superstars (Green and Hibbert) and a soft-spoken point guard from Bama, I have to agree with the posts. As long as no punches were thrown, point was taken by WVU and SportsCenter nation that this team plays with fire..Jr. was looking out for his teammate and as ESPN said "Gave him a little love tap" to let him know how we felt about the out of control unecessary play. No Harm, No Foul. Oh good, someone already gave my two cents. This is getting blown way out of proportion. Let's just go back to playing basketball.
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mapei
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by mapei on Feb 13, 2007 12:51:22 GMT -5
While I don't think the PE2 mistake was the biggest deal in the world - things happen in basketball - for the record I agree with Pope. I much prefer winning with understated class than with arrogant aggression. And, yes, that means I even prefer this team to the teams of the 80s (although I liked them and rooted for them) and I prefer JT3's style to Big John's. I know that's considered blasphemy by many and certainly everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion on it. But it's the way I feel, and I'm glad I'm not the only one.
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PDRHoya99
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Post by PDRHoya99 on Feb 13, 2007 12:54:53 GMT -5
facts: halftime score 37-20 time of The Bump around ~16 min mark of 2nd half score at the time of The Bump 48-24 hibbert usually plays majority of 2nd half unless there foul trouble hibbert benched with 3 fouls at 14:23 mark of 2nd half hibbert returns off the bench ~ 10 minute mark of 2nd half score when hibbert is benched 48-24 score when hibbert returns 52-30 Garbage Time ~ 4 minute mark of 2nd half score at start of Garbage Time 67-40 so when hibbert was in the game in the 2nd half pre-The Bump Distraction, the hoyas scored 11 points in 4 minutes. wvu score 4 points in those 4 minutes. in the 4.5 minutes hibbert sat, the hoyas scored 4 points. wvu scored 6 points. so with hibbert out, the hoyas score at ~32% of the rate as with him in. and they allow ~1.33x as many points. if you extrapolate this ROUGH rates of points scored and points allowed for the entire ~12 minutes that were remaining before Garbage Time, the score at Garbage time would have been around 81-38, a lead of 43 points. instead it was 67-40, a lead of 23 points. assuming the same scoring in garbage time, the final score would have been 85-51, a 34 point victory. yes of course i know this makes a lot of assumptions... IM SERIOUSLY! This is some of the most questionable use of math I've seen in a post in a long time. Pope, please tell me you were SFS. 1) Extrapolating 4 minutes of scoring across an entire game is questionable. Scoring ebbs and flows, and probably returns to a mean throughout the season. In our BE games to date we've averaged 70.09 pts/game. This works out to 1.75227 pts/minute, so our average over a 4 minute stretch should be 7.1 points. If break the game down in 4 minute increments last night, here was our scoring production 7,7,8,6,9,8,5,8,9,4. With 10 four minute periods in the game, we exceeded our average for 5 of them, and were below our average for 5 of them. Seems like we're hovering around that mean pretty closely to me. Additionally, given that we were coming off our most productive 8 minute stretch, it would stand to reason that we were due to underperform for a 4 minute stretch. 2) Our slow four minute periods also happened to coincide with our biggest leads. At the highest levels of basketball, no team is good enough to consistently double an opponents score. Hell, I would question whether most NBA teams could do that to a decent Div I team. When you're up by 24 in the second half, everything is garbage time. Sure we may still be playing starters, but it's natural you let off the gas a little when you're up by 20+. WV only scored 20 points in the first half, it seems unlikely that they would increase their output by more than 20% in the final 16 minutes of the second. 3) Our BE opponents have been averaging 57.6 pts/game. When we've got 50 with ten minutes to play with a 20+ pt lead, we know the game is pretty much wrapped up. 4) There is nothing wrong with beating a top 25 team by 18 points! If this were football and we were up by a similar margin, keeping our starters in and passing would have made it look like we were running up the score. I know some on this board won't be happy to the team pitches a shutout and scores 120 points, but most people will look at all double digit wins the same way, whether its 10, 20 or 50. When you lose by more than 5 possessions, you weren't close. Given that we have to play WVU again next year, and for many years to come, it would seem unwise to give them a stinging memory to linger on.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Feb 13, 2007 12:56:59 GMT -5
4) All you need to do to sum up the whole situation is to look at Beilein when he was talking to III after the incident at mid-court. I'm not a lip reader, but it sure looked like he was trying awful hard to convince JT III to forget the whole thing. He knew exactly what he did in touching PE Jr. and he was trying like hell to diffuse the situation. [/b][/i][/quote] This is a key point that I haven't seen others make -- although I did not read all 11 pages of this thread! JT3's measured reaction to the entire incident was -- as usual -- cool, calm, collected. He let Beilein say his piece. He didn't make a big issue out of it. He didn't scream for a T for Beilein. He just let it be. He even left Pat in the game to see how he could handle himself in the emotion of the moment. Unfortunately, Pat failed that test by picking up a quick T. Still, I don't fault JT3 for leaving him in. He gave him the benefit of the doubt and a learning opportunity. Now, he and Pat know exactly how Ewing will react -- and what he has to work on.
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hoyatables
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Post by hoyatables on Feb 13, 2007 13:03:13 GMT -5
I love that this thread is still alive. Last year the WVU gave birth to the best thread of all time, and it seems that we've continued the tradition . . . .
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mapei
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,088
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Post by mapei on Feb 13, 2007 13:05:31 GMT -5
4) All you need to do to sum up the whole situation is to look at Beilein when he was talking to III after the incident at mid-court. I'm not a lip reader, but it sure looked like he was trying awful hard to convince JT III to forget the whole thing. He knew exactly what he did in touching PE Jr. and he was trying like hell to diffuse the situation. [/b][/i][/quote] This is a key point that I haven't seen others make -- although I did not read all 11 pages of this thread! JT3's measured reaction to the entire incident was -- as usual -- cool, calm, collected. He let Beilein say his piece. He didn't make a big issue out of it. He didn't scream for a T for Beilein. He just let it be. He even left Pat in the game to see how he could handle himself in the emotion of the moment. Unfortunately, Pat failed that test by picking up a quick T. Still, I don't fault JT3 for leaving him in. He gave him the benefit of the doubt and a learning opportunity. Now, he and Pat know exactly how Ewing will react -- and what he has to work on. [/quote] Excellent points.
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RusskyHoya
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In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
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Post by RusskyHoya on Feb 13, 2007 13:11:01 GMT -5
You know why I'm not upset about what Pat did? Because these are the kinds of people we're dealing with here: wvpiratecaptain Re: WVU vs Georgetown
okay i've dealt with this Editede. good point... joe got his confidence back... late in the game after it was over... but he got it back none the less.
Georgetown is a bunch DELETED
(i'd have thrown a punch if it was up to me)
and blohillbilly Re: WVU vs Georgetown
Georgetown along with Cincinnati have always had a team full of thugs. I love Big East basketball because it is much more physical than other conferences but there is no place for after the whistle contact of any kind. Then to top it all off the kid gets away with it leaving no lesson learned. I never look forward to playing either team mentioned because it never turns out to be a good basketball game. Just a bunch of kids who never were taught to behave showing that they aren't mature enough to play the game the way its supposed to be played. Worst of all it seems that this time of activity is condoned by the coaches and universities they play under.
and WVUfaninlex Re: WVU vs Georgetown
Sounds like JT3 isn't recruiting players with any better character than his old man.
Translation EDITED: We want no part of Georgetown. Respect is back. Fear is clearly coming as well. MOD NOTE: please do not bring/quote ridiculous posts from other boards here, especially those meant to inflame.
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edstimes
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by edstimes on Feb 13, 2007 13:19:20 GMT -5
You know why I'm not upset about what Pat did? Because these are the kinds of people we're dealing with here: wvpiratecaptain Re: WVU vs Georgetown
okay i've dealt with this Editede. good point... joe got his confidence back... late in the game after it was over... but he got it back none the less.
Georgetown is a bunch DELETED
(i'd have thrown a punch if it was up to me)
and blohillbilly Re: WVU vs Georgetown
Georgetown along with Cincinnati have always had a team full of thugs. I love Big East basketball because it is much more physical than other conferences but there is no place for after the whistle contact of any kind. Then to top it all off the kid gets away with it leaving no lesson learned. I never look forward to playing either team mentioned because it never turns out to be a good basketball game. Just a bunch of kids who never were taught to behave showing that they aren't mature enough to play the game the way its supposed to be played. Worst of all it seems that this time of activity is condoned by the coaches and universities they play under.
and WVUfaninlex Re: WVU vs Georgetown
Sounds like JT3 isn't recruiting players with any better character than his old man.
Translation EDITED: We want no part of Georgetown. Respect is back. Fear is clearly coming as well. MOD NOTE: please do not bring/quote ridiculous posts from other boards here, especially those meant to inflame. Moderator--please suspend Pope John Paul's account **
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Post by Admin on Feb 13, 2007 13:19:43 GMT -5
RDF absolutely correct. Hoya Paranoia is an honorific term from the 1980s not something to shrink from. A big part of the Georgetown's history and tradition. Given their handshake post-game, Beilein and Ewing have put it behind them. So should everyone else . Consider it done.
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