Things I don't like about the Hoyas...

[aggypryd]

I wish when we broke the other team's press that we'd attack the hoop more. Since the Villanova game I've noticed that teams are trying to employ that same press. And I think more teams will try to do so because they know that we won't/seldom attack the hoop once we break it.

Other than that, I just wanted an obnoxious title for my thread so people would read it.

Very happy with the team's performance this year.

Work on that 'J', Jeremiah!!!

Take it strong to the Hoop, Roy!!!

Keep hypin' it up, Pat Jr.!!!

and...

GET OCTAVIUS SPANN THE BALL!!! HE'S ALWAYS OPEN!!! AND HE'S ALWAYS ON FIRE!!!!

[TrueHoyaBlue]

I agree that we should be attacking more, but I'd say we've been doing it at least 3-4 times per game (just not necessarily enough to get teams to stop doing it).

Also, I think there are times to attack after breaking the press and times not to attack. Anytime in the first half that we have opportunities and we aren't using them, we're doing something wrong.

But a lot of the presses that we've been seeing lately are late-game desperate full-court presses, and at least half the time, breaking the timeline and slowing down the clock are as valuable as getting a quick two in those endgame situations.

[mrsixer123]

why do things that do not play to the strengths of your current personnel (i.e attack teams off the dribble)? that would be very foolish

[aggypryd]

mrsixer123 said:

why do things that do not play to the strengths of your current personnel (i.e attack teams off the dribble)? that would be very foolish

attack teams off the dribble v. attack teams after breaking the press

are these two the same thing?

Mrsixer, are you just trying to add to your post count?

[mrsixer123]

aggypryd said:

mrsixer123 said:

why do things that do not play to the strengths of your current personnel (i.e attack teams off the dribble)? that would be very foolish

attack teams off the dribble v. attack teams after breaking the press

are these two the same thing?

Mrsixer, are you just trying to add to your post count?

add to my post count? i didnt even know that was a recorded stat worth mentioning. does that answer your question?

btw, imo, they are the same thing. once you break the press you want the ball to be in a ballhandlers hands to either attack or set up the play

[Hoya50]

i couldn't disagree more. this team runs a precision half court offense, not an up and down running game. unless the opportunity is so obvious as to push the ball against a press, i'm completely content to seeing the hoyas running sets in the half court.

[mrsixer123]

hoya50 said:

i couldn't disagree more. this team runs a precision half court offense, not an up and down running game. unless the opportunity is so obvious as to push the ball against a press, i'm completely content to seeing the hoyas running sets in the half court.

my thoughts exactly. if aint broke, why complain and attempt to fix it?

[Deleted]

I think aggy may be on to something. I've noticed that when the team breaks the press, the opponent - confident Wallace/Sapp/Rivers is going to pull it out and set up the offense - just sort of trots back into position and sets up their defense.

This obviously does not occur EVERY time down the court - otherwise we'd likely see a dozen or so more Roy/Jeff/Mack/PEJR dunks per game - but I've seen it enough to wish one of the guards (particularly Sapp) would take it hard to the rim a few times a game. Get someone in foul trouble, create an easy dunk/layin for some free points...

[williambraskyiii]

Also whats with us not forcing ANY turnovers? I mean we are not a pressing team, so I guess that is part of it, but that is kinda strange to me.

[Hoya50]

out of 20 possessions against a press, i'm willing to bet that if the hoyas attack it 10 times and pulls it back and runs the offense 10 times, the hoyas will score more points out of the latter scenario.

[hoopsmccan]

Generally agree with you Aggy, but some of the pressing teams have done against us has been pretty passive. For example, Nova's press seemed more geared toward slowing our ability to get into our sets, rather than creating turnovers. Because they weren't overplaying passing, being overaggressive, the opportunities to break the press and have easy baskets were not there (or at least as much as you would think).

hm

[HealyHoya]

hoopsmccan said:

Generally agree with you Aggy, but some of the pressing teams have done against us has been pretty passive. For example, Nova's press seemed more geared toward slowing our ability to get into our sets, rather than creating turnovers. Because they weren't overplaying passing, being overaggressive, the opportunities to break the press and have easy baskets were not there (or at least as much as you would think).

hm

Right on. The press we've seen the past few games have been token pressure. Again, I am convinced that opposing coaches watch the 'Nova game tape and think, "well, 'Nova beat 'em and THEY pressed, so we MUST press if we want to beat 'em."

Problem is...we're 6-1 since that game, every team in that span has pressed us and we're turning over the ball roughly 5-7 times per game. Thus, while the 'Nova game tape suggests pressing is effective, EVERY game tape since 'Nova (including our loss at Pitt) suggests that pressing us really doesn't accomplish anything.

In fact, we make opposing teams play so much more D, we make opposing teams work so much harder, for so much longer on D, that if they ALSO want to pile on their responsibility by extending their D 90ft...all for 5-6-7 turnovers for the game...that's fine with me.

Now, Marquette represents the best guard-oriented team we have played all year. As such, their press may be the most effective press we see all year.

Nevertheless, I don't really fear being pressed. Between Wallace, Rivers, Green, Summers, Ewing and Hibbert we have great passers with high basketball IQs.

Hoya Saxa.

[mrsixer123]

hoya50 said:

out of 20 possessions against a press, i'm willing to bet that if the hoyas attack it 10 times and pulls it back and runs the offense 10 times, the hoyas will score more points out of the latter scenario.

stevie wonder can see that u are correct

[SoCal Hoya85]

I think both HoyaChris and aggy are right on this one. We do need to attack once we break the press when we have superior numbers if for nothing else to keep teams honest. However, I also think we have to be very prudent in deciding when we attack because our half court set is so efficient and we can be turn over prone that I think we score better in our half court set.

In all I would like to see us be a bit more aggressive on the press or else it gives no incentive for teams to get out of it. It is entirely to their advantage to press since it eats time off the clock which our Princeton offense needs. If we don't attack every once and a while then there is no disadvantage to pressing. If I am a coach right now, depending on how deep my bench is, I would press the Hoyas the entire game.

[aggypryd]

buffalohoya said:

I think aggy may be on to something. I've noticed that when the team breaks the press, the opponent - confident Wallace/Sapp/Rivers is going to pull it out and set up the offense - just sort of trots back into position and sets up their defense.

This obviously does not occur EVERY time down the court - otherwise we'd likely see a dozen or so more Roy/Jeff/Mack/PEJR dunks per game - but I've seen it enough to wish one of the guards (particularly Sapp) would take it hard to the rim a few times a game. Get someone in foul trouble, create an easy dunk/layin for some free points...

that's all I was sayin'...

[aggypryd]

I agree with Buff, SoCal and some of the others.

You don't want to change what we do well, and that's run the half-court offense. But sometimes we break the press and have the numbers but don't attack. And we definitely have the guards and forwards to execute a 3 on 2 break, or whatever the advantage may be.

Do you attack everytime? Of course not. But I think you make teams a lot more reluctant to press when they know that you'll take it to the basket after breaking it, and DaJuan, Jeff, or Pat finishes with some two-fisted fury.

[mrsixer123]

socalhoya85 said:

I think both HoyaChris and aggy are right on this one. We do need to attack once we break the press when we have superior numbers if for nothing else to keep teams honest. However, I also think we have to be very prudent in deciding when we attack because our half court set is so efficient and we can be turn over prone that I think we score better in our half court set.

In all I would like to see us be a bit more aggressive on the press or else it gives no incentive for teams to get out of it. It is entirely to their advantage to press since it eats time off the clock which our Princeton offense needs. If we don't attack every once and a while then there is no disadvantage to pressing. If I am a coach right now, depending on how deep my bench is, I would press the Hoyas the entire game.

the incentive for teams to get out of it is to continue breaking it they way we currently are and not allowing them to dictate the tempo of the game.

imo, taking the unnecessary risk of having the guards attack the D and thus create a uptempo game is not wise for a team that has players with the bball iq and ability to execute in the half court the way this team can.

how frustrating it must be for a team to have us break their press, then pull the ball back out when they are expecting us to drive to the bucket quickly so they can inturn grab the ball (on a miss or make) and run back down the floor, surely beating roy to their basket so he is a non factor for us on D. then, not only do we pull the ball out, we make them play D longer than any team they have ever played all season long.

a few misses on their end after having to deal with the above scenarios, is surely to deflate a 16-18 year old

[HoyaSinceBirth]

i hate to say it but i agree with mrsixer. We force them to play that much more defense and it wears the other team out. I love us forcing them to play defense for so long. At this point i don't think we should force the issue and attack after we break the press. Especaily since the presses aren't overly aggressive. they've usually had enough players behind the ball when we cross half court that it's not to our advantage to attack at that moment.

I think next year we will press more and run more but at this point i think it's more prudent to starting runningthe offense the majority of the time rather than force something attacking the basket.

[dajuan]

Teams press us because they want to increase the tempo of the game because that is the best way to beat us. Our transition offense is not as good as our set offense. Fact. And don't tell me that is because we don't try to score in transition.

Also - the fact that we don't force hardly any turnovers is exactly the reason we don't push the ball in transition. That's simply not our game. Our game is stifling defense forcing tough shots and making our opponents work deep into the shot clock. Then we do the same at the other end of the court. It's our game, it's what we're coached and designed to do.

Pushing the ball in transition only plays into our opponent's game plan.