Leader of team: Green or Hibbert?

[OldHoyafan]

I know both are leaders on the team, but which one is, as Reggie Jackson says, "the straw that stirs the drink" Before the season, I thought Green was the guy hands down, but based on a few no shows by Green this year and his comments after the ORU game I am not sure. He said of Hibbert "we follow him. He's an emotional leader, when he shows emotion it gets us fired up, and we follow his lead." If Green really meant that, then he waits for Hibbert to set the tone of the game then he follows suit. This is just the opposite of what I thought it would be.

[hoyaLS05]

Jeff is still the straw the stirs the drink, I'd say. Yes, Roy is more outwardly emotional and guys do feed off of that, but here is what I think is the key: this team can succeed with Roy on the pine, but we have an extremely difficult time, especially on offense, without Jeff in the game. Jon and Jessie may be our primary ball handlers, but Jeff is the floor general. Roy may be more of an emotional leader, and I'm still not quite sure how vocal Jeff is during the course of the game, but I still think he is the straw that stirs the drink (glad to see you use one of my all-time favorite expressions). The team defers to him on the floor, in the lockerrom (at least when it comes to speaking with the media), and from everything I can tell, they defer to him away from basketball as well.

[MCIGuy]

hoyals05 said:

Jeff is still the straw the stirs the drink, I'd say. Yes, Roy is more outwardly emotional and guys do feed off of that, but here is what I think is the key: this team can succeed with Roy on the pine, but we have an extremely difficult time, especially on offense, without Jeff in the game.

Don't any of you get tired of that cliche? Truth is Green is Thompson's security blanket and perhaps the smartest guy on the floor. He is an all around skilled player who can be a force when he wants to be. But this team seems to be most dominant when Roy is dominant.

Maybe Green fits THIS system better and therefore is overall more important than Roy when it comes to III's gameplan. But if this was almost any other team, including most top twenty teams, the coaches would have the offense run through Roy. There wouldn't be any of Roy being out of the paint 40% of the times to set screens. And the coach would most likley stress to Roy that passing the ball back out to his teammates rather than looking to score 80% of the times when he touches it is not in the team's best interest. This is not necessarily a criticism of III because I feel his team approach system is a very good one. But there are times (like the Duke game) in which it frustrates me that guards are taking more shots than the big men.

[fsohoya]

Neither.

Wallace is the leader of this team. For one thing, you can see it during the game. He is out there directing people, and he often looks like he has by far the most awareness of what's going on in the game. Moreover, despite having some rough patches, he has been more reliable this season than either Jeff or Roy, who have looked passive and uncertain a lot more often than JW.

Now, don't get me wrong, Wallace isn't the most important player on the team. Green is, because he has the most weapons and is most dangerous. But no one was afraid of Patton's pistols. They were afraid of his brains and leadership, and on the court that's what Wallace provides.

Is JW perfect? Defintiely not. But is the leader of this team? I think he is.

[hoyaeighties]

Old Hoyafan, the ORU game was a very important game for us to win as a team...had nothing to do with conference play (to a certain degree) or anything of that sort...we just needed a good, decent, quality win and we got it, and not only that I think the biggest thing is "WE" ('ve) found our "identity" in that game...as you mentioned Jeff's statement about Roy being our emotional leader "He was incredible," said teammate Jeff Green, who had 15 points and six rebounds. "He made the little things -- rebounding, assists, hit the open guy, and whenever he needed to score, he scored. It was big for us for him to get a good start. We follow him. He's an emotional leader; when he shows emotion, it gets us fired up and we follow his lead."

That statement should tell everyone what the problem was early on with Jeff...Jeff a very good talented soon to be great college player was undecided about the leadership he was expected to display early on...I think he knows who the leader is now and always did...I think neither one Roy nor Jeff wanted to admit to each other due to conflict that "could" arise as to who's the man...Jeff Green will follow his lead very closely and never go as coach says "South" on us...I always say start inside and work ur way outside...u have a rare good to great 7 footer in Royyy Roy Roy Royyyyyyyyyyyyyy !!! lol...get all you can get outta da big fella NOW because if not we'll be saying "you don't know whats good till its gone"...we don't want to be saying that...smile "WE ARE GEORGETOWN" GO HOYAS!!!!

[Deleted]

fsohoya said:

Neither.

Wallace is the leader of this team. For one thing, you can see it during the game. He is out there directing people, and he often looks like he has by far the most awareness of what's going on in the game. Moreover, despite having some rough patches, he has been more reliable this season than either Jeff or Roy, who have looked passive and uncertain a lot more often than JW.

Now, don't get me wrong, Wallace isn't the most important player on the team. Green is, because he has the most weapons and is most dangerous. But no one was afraid of Patton's pistols. They were afraid of his brains and leadership, and on the court that's what Wallace provides.

Is JW perfect? Defintiely not. But is the leader of this team? I think he is.

Wrong. Impossible. Ridiculous.

How can WALLACE, of all people, be a leader?!? He isn't even a true point guard. He can't drive and dish at will, drop 25 and 15 every night, OR set up Green AND Hibbert for night in-night out triple-doubles.

He's terrible.


P.S. I think all three juniors are the leaders in different ways and at different points (one running the offense, one the security blanket, one vocally). III doesn't have a dominant alpha personality running the show...

[HoyaSinceBirth]

i was waiting for the jab at mrsixer to come after jwall was suggested. I know Mrsixer's a jerk and we all love jwall but the joke's getting old now. Especially since newbies will be confused. sorry to be a buzz kill.

[hoyaeighties]

Jonathan Wallace is developing well, but needs to learn how to handle pressure...still hasn't learned yet especially in the last 5 minutes of the game against ORU...that is a major concern we have is breaking the press...I think it will get better, but our guards have to start playing consistently with more "HEART" and playing smart in getting Roy Roy Roy the ball...Roy is the leader of this team...Jonathan is suppose to be the floor general as an extension of the coach on the floor....he is a leader but not the leader of this team...

[lichoya68]

the leader of the team is THE TEAM there is no I in team remember go hoyas go TEAM win one by one and show them all beat the cigarette combos winston salems etc.. IN our house go hoays

[hoyaeighties]

hoyals05 said:

Jeff is still the straw the stirs the drink, I'd say. Yes, Roy is more outwardly emotional and guys do feed off of that, but here is what I think is the key: this team can succeed with Roy on the pine, but we have an extremely difficult time, especially on offense, without Jeff in the game. Jon and Jessie may be our primary ball handlers, but Jeff is the floor general. Roy may be more of an emotional leader, and I'm still not quite sure how vocal Jeff is during the course of the game, but I still think he is the straw that stirs the drink (glad to see you use one of my all-time favorite expressions). The team defers to him on the floor, in the lockerrom (at least when it comes to speaking with the media), and from everything I can tell, they defer to him away from basketball as well.

You're right Jeff is the straw that stirs the drink, but like he said Roy is the leader of this team...Jeff will follow and become more of a vocal...yes, Jeff is learning his role but he will catch on fast and I know they've found their identity and should be okay from here on out...

[hoyaeighties]

MCI guy your on point man!!!

[paranoya]

I think it said Roy was the emotional leader meaning when he gets fired up its infectious and others want to get behind the big man and I agree with that. Jeff is the cog that makes the machine work while John is an extension of the coach on the floor, floor general, director of traffic, whatever you want to call him. Finally, Tyler is the "I dont give a crap about the other team" and constant hustle leader and people also follow suit on that. I dont think it is a fluke he is captain and also think we will see more of this as he slowly gets back in shape.

Essentially the team follows the juniors who are all expected to lead in some manner and I am not sure if over the season anyone of them becomes the constant that is always leading.

[RDF]

I think there is no such thing as "developing into a leader". You either are one or are not. Some kids have natural leadership abilities and others follow them and others lead by example on the court, but you can't force something on someone that doesn't possess the skill of leading. So if you come into a program and aren't a leader, you won't be one at any point--and it's why teams who force leadership on the upperclassmen often suck.

One of the dumbest things in life is "look to the elders for leadership"--why? If you are in a program/company that hasn't done a thing, why look to the morons who are already there for leadership? Maybe those places need to FIND LEADERS to turn things around. (I'm not saying that is case with GU, but talking in general terms).

It's obvious Jeff is the most important player in this system. Minute he leaves the court, this team is lost. He doesn't even have to score to be a huge influence on the game and that is a special talent/player.

According to III, Crawford is the leader of the team and according to the players--Crawford and Wallace seem to be the leaders.

As for what MCI stated--he's dead on and a lot of that approach is developed in HS/AAU ball where bigs aren't utilized correctly or developed--they are strictly rebounders and defensive players and what's missing is making game simple--if you throw it in to a big--you'll get it back more often then not and have a better shot-but that also takes into account if you throw it/out and someone closes out on guard--he'll kick it to another open teammate and use ball movement--WHAT A NOVEL CONCEPT!

Basketball is a much easier game going inside/out then vice versa, but try telling that to today's perimeter players. It's especially an easier game when you have TALENTED bigs which GU has.

[Deleted]

hoyasincebirth said:

i was waiting for the jab at mrsixer to come after jwall was suggested. I know Mrsixer's a jerk and we all love jwall but the joke's getting old now. Especially since newbies will be confused. sorry to be a buzz kill.

Not as old as that horribly played out and terrible sounding "J-Wall" nickname. Can't we come up with anything more creative than that stuipd "First Initial-First Syllable of Last Name" hot garbage?

And who gives a rat's patoot about "newbies," anyway? Its up to them to get up to speed, not on us to make every post understandable for the uninitiated.

[Cambridge]

hoyasincebirth said:

i was waiting for the jab at mrsixer to come after jwall was suggested. I know Mrsixer's a jerk and we all love jwall but the joke's getting old now. Especially since newbies will be confused. sorry to be a buzz kill.

You are a drag aren't you, always whining about people's feelings and such. Who gives a hoot whether newbies will be confused? Personally, I don't. Play on Buff, play on.

[HoyaSinceBirth]

i'm less concerned about the newbies i just don't think it's funny anymore it was really funny when people started doing it but now it's lame and predictable. But hey if lame and predictable is your style be my guest.

[Deleted]

hoyasincebirth said:

i'm less concerned about the newbies i just don't think it's funny anymore it was really funny when people started doing it but now it's lame and predictable. But hey if lame and predictable is your style be my guest.

So wait... are you the humor police or the content police? Because neither role is very becoming of you.

So sorry to offend your highly-trained comedic sensibilities, good sir. It shant happen again.

[/attempted HSB hijack]



MCI - I agree with your assessment about Roy on other teams. But it doesn't really address the "who's the leader" question or the "the team can/has succeeded with Roy on the pine" argument, does it?

Not arguing with your point, just asking for clarification (as I agree with what you posted in principle).

RDF - 100% right on. You're a leader or you ain't. Can't be taught, can't be learned. Maybe a young player becomes more comfortable with getting in the faces of teammates/commanding attention/leading behind the scenes, but the fact remains - the will and desire to know when and how to do so seems to be innate, and not a developed skill.

[Omega]

Roy is the leader of the team. Green's personality is that of a complementary player. Although he is good at doing what he does, he is not comfortable in the lime light. In order for this team to be successful, Roy has to assume the lead, whether he wants to or not. The team struggled early because they were looking to Green to lead and he couldn’t because “being da man” is not part of his DNA.

Last year, Green was the most important player on the team, but his strengths were as a complementary player. Cook took all of the momentum changing shots. Green simply played ball without the pressure of being da man. This year he struggled! With Roy assuming the lead, the pressure is off of Green and he will have a much better season.

[williambraskyiii]

i take umbrage with the statement that Green is only a complementary player. Last night Green put GU on his shoulders and carried us to the Elite 8 in my 2k7 ncaa tournament.

Hibbert maddeningly misses inside shots and often is hesitant to dunk, much like in real life. However, when i run the defense around JG, he takes it to the hole over people with authority even though he is rated lower than hibbs...interesting

Also, the game makes macklin pretty sick. rivers is ok, summers kind of a non-factor, EVERYONE else blows on the squad.

[williambraskyiii]

also when did gtown students get so pathetically soft. I feel like no one over there on the Hilltop knows how to have a good time anymore - or at least the people posting on this Board.

I think there is a direct correlation between students becoming wussy little wusses and Champs closing.