McClain and other Questions

[HarbinHoya]

So I guess that with Wright coming we can assume there will be no movement on McClain at least for now right? Its also rumored that Wattad will commit to Gtown? Is he gonna take a schollie or walk on for other reasons etc. It would seem crazy to me for the hoyas to give out another schollie to Wattad if we could lock Biggie up right now. I guess we will have to wait until spring to see, but I would love to secure a big man as the final piece. Also can someone please explain the schollie situation and how we know that we will have enough next year? If someone was going to transfer why wouldnt they do it now?

[TBird41]

harbinhoya said:

So I guess that with Wright coming we can assume there will be no movement on McClain at least for now right? Its also rumored that Wattad will commit to Gtown? Is he gonna take a schollie or walk on for other reasons etc. It would seem crazy to me for the hoyas to give out another schollie to Wattad if we could lock Biggie up right now. I guess we will have to wait until spring to see, but I would love to secure a big man as the final piece. Also can someone please explain the schollie situation and how we know that we will have enough next year? If someone was going to transfer why wouldnt they do it now?

The odds that there will be at least one more schollie for next year are really, really good. Either Jeff goes pro or someone transfers. The odds of both happening are also pretty good. Hence why we are able to take a verbal and likely able to take one more.

[edited--I only meant one more besides Wright]

[hoyaboy1]

tbird41 said:

harbinhoya said:

So I guess that with Wright coming we can assume there will be no movement on McClain at least for now right? Its also rumored that Wattad will commit to Gtown? Is he gonna take a schollie or walk on for other reasons etc. It would seem crazy to me for the hoyas to give out another schollie to Wattad if we could lock Biggie up right now. I guess we will have to wait until spring to see, but I would love to secure a big man as the final piece. Also can someone please explain the schollie situation and how we know that we will have enough next year? If someone was going to transfer why wouldnt they do it now?

The odds that there will be at least one more schollie for next year are really, really good. Either Jeff goes pro or one of the four sophomores transfer. The odds of both happening are also pretty good. Hence why we are able to take a verbal and likely able to take two more.

2 more? That would mean Jeff going pro and 2 transfers.

[GUHoya07]

how bout we stop speculating about what it would take to bring in any more players? Let the coaching staff deal with that rather than speculating about transfers and so on.

[williambraskyiii]

i agree - this is speculation pure and simple. lock it up pursuant to Rule 7b1, subsection a(7) of the DFW azzkikr Code

[hoyaboy1]

guhoya2007 said:

how bout we stop speculating about what it would take to bring in any more players? Let the coaching staff deal with that rather than speculating about transfers and so on.

This is a message board, it's what we do. I think that right now, we have no reason to speculate, since it seems obvious that Wright will take Jeff's spot.

But if there is one more signing, we have every reason to wonder what's going on; I have my doubts that the staff could already be sure of a specific player transferring.

[HarbinHoya]

Yeah what is this lock it up crap... I hate that about this board. What was everyone doing for 18 freakin pages the other day with Wright, I think that too was speculation. If you dont have an opinion or dont care then dont respond, but people dont need to reply all th time with their holier than thou "leave it up to the coaches" crap. I have full faith in JT3 and the staff and I am not complaining about any of the signings thus far, they have been dope, I am just asking a question about the schollie situation and Wattad and McClain all which I think are valid questions that we dont have clear answers to. Damn man, sometimes this board is so predictable...

[FLHoya]

guhoya2007 said:

how bout we stop speculating about what it would take to bring in any more players? Let the coaching staff deal with that rather than speculating about transfers and so on.

To be fair, I think there's a difference with saying "Well, we're offering X number of scholarships to incoming players...we have Y scholarships committed right now to players...something's gotta give". That's not really speculation; that's common sense and simple addition.

If we start saying: "well, Player X oughta transfer" or "I think Player X is useless, he should go" or "I've been hearing Player X is unhappy, maybe he's the one who'll leave," something of that nature, that'd be the bad kind of speculating.

[RBHoya]

I agree with 007, and don't have quite enough time to explain every reason why right now. But he's right. Simple truth is that great college basketball teams are like great sausage (or however that saying goes) in that sometimes you don't want to know exactly what goes into it to make it so good. That's not implying that there's anything shady happening at all. But it's something to keep in mind. Also important to remember is that there are a lot of other people reading this board outside of the dozens of regular posters. Players, players families, recruits, recruits families, opposing fans and people who would love to see bad things happen to Georgetown basketball... they're all reading these boards, and if you don't think that's literally true, I'm fairly certain you're wrong.

The more we make this kind of thing public speak, the worse it is for the program's PR. III can't come out and address this stuff publicly, but the more of an issue that's made of it, the more he has to deal with pressure about it. Use your heads. Realize that nothing good can possibly come of a thread like this. If you want Georgetown to succeed, realize that maybe every ingredient in the sausage shouldn't be public knowledge.

Let the professionals do what they're paid to do, and watch it unfold. Don't nitpick their jobs--after all III has done in 2 years, I should think he's earned that at least. If III brings in more players, obviously he is confident or certain that it will all work out. If you don't trust him, that's your choice, but absolutely nothing good can come out of this repeated scholarship math that everyone is trying to do. Think for yourself and draw your own conclusions as you see fit rather than drawing attention to the (obviously negative) fact that something doesn't add up.

[kghoya]

guhoya2007 said:

how bout we stop speculating about what it would take to bring in any more players? Let the coaching staff deal with that rather than speculating about transfers and so on.

uh...isnt this a talkboard on the internet? stop speculating? what do you want to talk about?

[Omega]

Give it a rest. Do we really think that people outside of Georgetown University cannot count to 13. Anyone can do the math and realize that the Hoyas currently are committed to more players than is allowed by the NCAA. Additionally, the Hoyas are still actively recruiting more players. It's not a State secret that something has to give. Either a player will turn pro early, leave the university, or JW and/or PE are not on scholarship.

[FLHoya]

rbhoya said:

I agree with 007, and don't have quite enough time to explain every reason why right now. But he's right. Simple truth is that great college basketball teams are like great sausage (or however that saying goes) in that sometimes you don't want to know exactly what goes into it to make it so good. That's not implying that there's anything shady happening at all. But it's something to keep in mind. Also important to remember is that there are a lot of other people reading this board outside of the dozens of regular posters. Players, players families, recruits, recruits families, opposing fans and people who would love to see bad things happen to Georgetown basketball... they're all reading these boards, and if you don't think that's literally true, I'm fairly certain you're wrong.

The more we make this kind of thing public speak, the worse it is for the program's PR. III can't come out and address this stuff publicly, but the more of an issue that's made of it, the more he has to deal with pressure about it. Use your heads. Realize that nothing good can possibly come of a thread like this. If you want Georgetown to succeed, realize that maybe every ingredient in the sausage shouldn't be public knowledge.

Let the professionals do what they're paid to do, and watch it unfold. Don't nitpick their jobs--after all III has done in 2 years, I should think he's earned that at least. If III brings in more players, obviously he is confident or certain that it will all work out. If you don't trust him, that's your choice, but absolutely nothing good can come out of this repeated scholarship math that everyone is trying to do. Think for yourself and draw your own conclusions as you see fit rather than drawing attention to the (obviously negative) fact that something doesn't add up.

Let me try an analogy here and see if it helps clarify my position on this:

Let's imagine that we're watching a Hoyas game together at the Verizon Center. We have the ball at midcourt down by 3 points with 2 seconds to go, and JT3 has just called a timeout.

Now during the timeout, I turn to you and say: "Well, looks like we're gonna need a three pointer to tie it."

You reply: "Yep...what do you think JT3 will draw up?

Me: "My guess is he'll run Jeff Green off a screen at the top of a key."

You: "Nah...J-Wall's my homeboy. He's going to spot up in the corner and nail one."


Up until you start speaking in this situation, we're merely pointing out objective, known facts clearly obvious to everyone. The team is down by three points. There is only time for one possession. The team needs a three pointer to tie the game (*we'll assume drawing a foul + 1 is unlikely).

ONLY WHEN the question of "What do you think JT3 will draw up?" comes up does the discussion enter into speculation. In the example, I think Green will get the chance, you think J-Wall. We're speculating as to what JT3's plans/motivations are for the team.

In a sense, we're going beyond letting the "professionals do what they do, and watch it unfold" as you say. Sound silly to make that parallel? Not if you recall how much heat Craig Esherick took for his terrible endgame strategies.

My point here is perhaps not that far from yours and 007's. There is a line between "speculation" and "stating clearly known facts".

I guess where we differ is how far we're willing to let people go down the slippery slope (and how slippery we feel it is).

My opinion is influenced somewhat by the fact that I'm very new to the concept of following recruiting. There are a number of things I don't understand yet, and I am willing to admit that some of the adverse effects RB speaks of may be more relevant than I understand at this point. But it is this: if we're going to become all excited that GU fans are into recruiting news now, that the coaching staff is doing a tremendous job attracting boatloads of talent, that Chris Wright's verbal spiked viewing numbers on Hoyatalk yesterday...well, there's another side to that. All those fans are going to become KNOWLEDGEABLE about the recruiting process and ask questions.

Now, this is where the line comes in. I am absolutely 100% with you that speculation about recruits is harmful to the team's best interests. If we start making normative judgements about players on the team or the job the coaching staff is/needs to do with the recruiting situation vis a vis outgoing scholarships, that's out of bounds.

But 007's comment strikes me as odd:

how bout we stop speculating about what it would take to bring in any more players?

I respect his opinion, and I think I know where he's coming from. He doesn't want people to go down the slippery slope and start judging which players should hit the road after this season to make room for new recruits. If it gets there, I'd be mad too, cause that's extremely unfair to the players on our team.

But TO ME...that statement on face value would be the equivalent in my example of you replying to me:

"How bout we not discuss what kind of basket the team needs to make up this 3 point deficit."


I guess I'm just a guy that's a little more permissive about allowing discussion...just my nature I suppose. I don't disagree with you guys that the discussion can turn the wrong way, but I don't think it had yet...people were just pointing out the obvious or trying to get clarification.

I also believe the flip side of "letting the professionals do their job" is that if you believe that...you should also believe that JT3 is competent enough that (1) he has his recruiting/scholarship strategy for the short, medium, and long term future well in hand; AND (2) the Hoyatalk, HoyaReport, and whatever else message boards ain't exactly gonna be putting any pressure on the man any time soon. Difference between the Craig Esherick example and JT3 example...when Esh screws up an endgame play, 20,000 15,000 10,000 8,000 several thousand fans were there at the MCI Center to make their displeasure known at a very specific and visible case where the team was harmed. With the scholarship situation and JT3? First of all, I think fans are more HAPPY about recruiting now than anything else. Second of all, there ain't exactly a complaint box for "hey JT3, why do you have X number of scholarships committed for 07-08 blah blah blah" hanging in the Basketball office.


So anyways, in conclusion I really look forward to seeing both RB and 007 tonight, I found out some kids are getting together to make signs for Midnight Madness, including some for recruits. I think that's a great promotion, and I've even thought of writing my next article/column about it. At the same time though, when a kid draws a "Welcome to Georgetown, Chris Wright" sign, or puts together a "We Want You, Chris Braswell" sign...well, is it that far down the road before they put 2 and 2 (or 3 and 3) together?

P.S. DON'T YOU DARE ALL START SPECULATING NOW!!!!!!!!!!!

P.S.2. A week into my great experiment with following recruiting and HoyaReport, I am still a great novice in the recruiting game...I need to read up on this Wattad fella.

[Deleted]

omega said:

Give it a rest. Do we really think that people outside of Georgetown University cannot count to 13. Anyone can do the math and realize that the Hoyas currently are committed to more players than is allowed by the NCAA. Additionally, the Hoyas are still actively recruiting more players. It's not a State secret that something has to give. Either a player will turn pro early, leave the university, or JW and/or PE are not on scholarship.

While the debate over Wallace rages as to whether or not he's on scholly (and I still can't believe none of you current students have asked him), PE - whether or not he is actually receiving an athletic scholarship STILL COUNTS AS THOUGH HE IS.

As per NCAA rules, once a player receives ANY PORTION of a four-year scholarship (at least in hoops and football), every year of eligibility he uses will count against that team's scholarship limit. And since IU gave him a full ride, for the rest of his NCAA career PEJR will count against Georgetown's scholarship limit, no matter how much or how little the University is giving him.

I'm with the pro-speculation crowd on this one, and agree with FL. Nobody is speculating which players are going to leave and why (which I think would be cause for lock-down), just that there are inconsistencies which we as fans have every right to yap about.

If its your opinion we shouldn't be talking about it and to trust the staff, fine. No harm, no foul. But that shouldn't preclude others from debating the GENERAL point. If you don't like it, change the channel.

[RBHoya]

omega said:

Give it a rest. Do we really think that people outside of Georgetown University cannot count to 13. Anyone can do the math and realize that the Hoyas currently are committed to more players than is allowed by the NCAA. Additionally, the Hoyas are still actively recruiting more players. It's not a State secret that something has to give. Either a player will turn pro early, leave the university, or JW and/or PE are not on scholarship.

So if it's that simple, why do we need a thread to talk about it?

At the Thompson lecture last night some guy who looked like he was reporting for someone asked III to comment on the Wright committment and the fact that 14 players were committed to 13 scholarship spots. The guy was obviously an amateur since he didn't know III couldn't talk about that, but the fact remains that III shouldn't have to deal with every punk who thinks they're Sherlock Holmes because the scholarships don't add up, when he's just doing what big time basketball coaches do.

Nothing good can come out of the topic if you're a Hoya fan. Use your sense and try to fill in the gaps on your own. If you wanna speculate, speculate about who will start, who will be the toughest game this year, what the 100 year Anniversary event will be like, or any of the other thousand questions this year might present us with, but not about the "downside" of all the recruiting success.

[HarbinHoya]

What I don't get is this. I get a great deal of enjoyment out of reading this board, talking Hoya hoops and (ooooooooh) "speculating" about the future, that is what I thought the nature of talk boards are. On top of that, many of the people getting uppity in relation to this thread, i.e. RB and GUHoya2007 ask questions, "speculate" and make comments on a number of threads, I could go back to 15 from the Wright conversation, yet when someone says something they dont like, they immediately call for locking down the thread and point out section blah from subsection blah page 10 of the how to post on talk board rule book that they carry around with them at all times. If anyone can go back to my first post on this thread and explain to me, what is wrong about asking a question about the status of A) A recruit I like and am interested about B)the scholarship situation of the basketball team of the school that I attended or C) the truth behind a rumor about the possible commitment of another GU recruit, then I would like to hear it, because if I am not mistaken those topics and others are exactly what 99.9% of the 25 billion other posts on this board are about. I think its so f*ing lame that certain people come on here and patrol this damn board like they own it, spouting off insults and condemnations of anyone who posts something that they dont happen to like. Then they love to throw out the whole, "important people read this board so you better watch out" line as if the "amazing" insights or banter that goes on on this board, really plays such a huge role in the school choice of basketball recruits...get over yourself. No wonder why hifigator and others come on this board to post annoying threads considering how quickly people on this respond to them thus fueling the fire. Why dont you just let people say what they want to say and show them the same courtesy that they show you when you post on this board.

[FLHoya]

harbinhoya said:

What I don't get is this. I get a great deal of enjoyment out of reading this board, talking Hoya hoops and (ooooooooh) "speculating" about the future, that is what I thought the nature of talk boards are. On top of that, many of the people getting uppity in relation to this thread, i.e. RB and GUHoya2007 ask questions, "speculate" and make comments on a number of threads, I could go back to 15 from the Wright conversation, yet when someone says something they dont like, they immediately call for locking down the thread and point out section blah from subsection blah page 10 of the how to post on talk board rule book that they carry around with them at all times. If anyone can go back to my first post on this thread and explain to me, what is wrong about asking a question about the status of A) A recruit I like and am interested about B)the scholarship situation of the basketball team of the school that I attended or C) the truth behind a rumor about the possible commitment of another GU recruit, then I would like to hear it, because if I am not mistaken those topics and others are exactly what 99.9% of the 25 billion other posts on this board are about. I think its so f*ing lame that certain people come on here and patrol this damn board like they own it, spouting off insults and condemnations of anyone who posts something that they dont happen to like. Then they love to throw out the whole, "important people read this board so you better watch out" line as if the "amazing" insights or banter that goes on on this board, really plays such a huge role in the school choice of basketball recruits...get over yourself. No wonder why hifigator and others come on this board to post annoying threads considering how quickly people on this respond to them thus fueling the fire. Why dont you just let people say what they want to say and show them the same courtesy that they show you when you post on this board.

In retrospect, I guess this was the other bad thing that could have come out of this thread.

No need to be getting angry at each other. Both sides have a legitimate argument here.

[hoyaboy1]

RB, your series of posts here are off the wall absurd. This is a perfectly legitimate issue to talk about ON AN INTERNET MESSAGE BOARD. You are grossly overestimating any negative impact this could have, particularly since nobody is mentioning anything specific.

[HarbinHoya]

Im not really angry. Its just annoying sometimes, that I come on here cause I am excited about Hoya Basketball and want to know more and have more explained to me by people that are in "the know" only to get criticized for asking a couple of questions. If someone wants to explain the proper way to phrase such questions, if I am not doing it correctly, then I would be glad to take that advice. At the end of the day though, this is a talk board, this should be a board where you can say for example " I really hope we get this dude", or "I like so and sos game more then that other guy" or "blank sucks and never comes through in the clutch." I realize these are kids and that they may or may not read this board, but welcome to the nature of being a sports fan. If there is another talkboard, where I can ask questions, or make comments, then tell me where it is and I will go use that one and spare people from having to read my "improper" posts. Its just stupid that out of all the talk about getting people excited about Hoya basketball and firing up the fans and getting people out to games, that some one like myself, who travels around the country to see Hoya games and gives money to the basketball team and spends 10 bucks a month to be on hoyareport and gets made fun of by my girlfriend for telling her about the sophomore that Gtown recruited this week, that people make me feel like I dont want to post on this board and be interested and I think that attitude is why others might not get involved even though they are interested.

[RBHoya]

hoyaboy1 said:

RB, your series of posts here are off the wall absurd. This is a perfectly legitimate issue to talk about ON AN INTERNET MESSAGE BOARD. You are grossly overestimating any negative impact this could have, particularly since nobody is mentioning anything specific.

Where can this thread POSSIBLY go but down? Honestly. Once you've made the simple realization that:

X must be <= 13

X currently = 14 (or more)

14 > 13

there is nothing else noteworthy that can possibly come from this. At all. Zilch. Because even if you had inside info, it wouldn't be fit to be posted here. Unless you're of the opinion that Tyler Crawford is gonna jump to the NBA this year, we all know where this is headed, and can put the pieces together.

And there's no doubt that the staff doesn't like this kind of talk following the team at all. If you can't do the simple arithmetic there either, PM me.

Outside of that I'm through bumping this thread.