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Sapp
Mar 11, 2006 13:50:03 GMT -5
Post by longislandhoya19 on Mar 11, 2006 13:50:03 GMT -5
Ok, to clarify, this is not in any way meant to be a personal attack. However, I just want someone to explain why everyone acts like Jesse Sapp has so much potential. I literally haven't seen him do anything impressive this season. He's an upgrade over Ray Reed as our third small guard (behind Cook and Wallace), but that's just because he plays more in control than Reed ever did. I just feel like even when Sapp gets more minutes, he's going to continue to putting up the miniscule point and assist totals he has been.
I mean, the kid never takes a shot and he never seems to try to take his defender off the dribble. When he gets the ball, he immediately swings it around to someone else on the perimeter. I'll admit that he rarely makes any bad decisions, but he just hasn't shown me anything.
I guess my main point is that I don't know what people are basing their claims that "Sapp has potential" on. I've never really seen him do anything besides just swing the ball around the arc, and frankly I'm more than a little worried about our guard situation next year if he is going to be one of our starters.
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HOYAPLAYA
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Sapp
Mar 11, 2006 14:14:43 GMT -5
Post by HOYAPLAYA on Mar 11, 2006 14:14:43 GMT -5
I'm not saying he is going to be a star, but do me this favor:
Pick a couple of Guards that you think are good players, not superstars. Then go to ESPN.COm and take a look at what their freshman stats looked like. If you don't like stats, think back a few years when Nova's freshman guards were being called "overrated gunners". You have to be blind to see that Sapp doesn't have potential. At times, he has shown the ability to penetrate and finish, to go up and get rebounds and he has hit an occassional 3. The issue with freshman guards (unless they are given complete freedom-which usually means the team is bad) is that the coaches are usually in their head alot about what you could do on the HS level, that you won't get away with on the college level. Once they stop thinking and start playing, then you get to see what type of player they are going to become. What did you think about J. Wallace this time last year?
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SFHoya99
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Sapp
Mar 11, 2006 14:19:17 GMT -5
Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 11, 2006 14:19:17 GMT -5
My thought son Jesse:
1. I've been surprised by the lack of agression on offense by him at times compared to the scouting reports (from hs). 2. But, he is just a freshman. 3. I like his defensive intensity and quickness. 4. I like his handle. 5. He's been very good around the basket.
Between the handle and the quickness, I think there's a lot of potential there. I think Josh is actually quicker, but not as strong nor with as good of a handle.
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HealyHoya
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Sapp
Mar 11, 2006 14:47:20 GMT -5
Post by HealyHoya on Mar 11, 2006 14:47:20 GMT -5
Marcus Williams, UConn: 2.9 ppg, 4.3 apg Karl Krauser, Pitt: 6 ppg, 2.9 apg Jessie Sapp, GU: 2.9 ppg, 0.5 apg
All freshman stats...the kid did a very good job inserting himself into the line-up of a team that battled for a top-4 position in the most competitive conference in college basketball. He has a nice handle, he can and did take the ball to the rim when appropriate, he can and did take and make 3's when appropriate and he's the best rebounder of the three (Wallace, Cook, Sapp) by far.
He's a freshman. I'd look for he and Wallace to be our starting guards next year. He will be a very good, perhaps not great, guard for this team.
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the_way
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Sapp
Mar 11, 2006 15:00:15 GMT -5
Post by the_way on Mar 11, 2006 15:00:15 GMT -5
I think with the Carmelo Anthony's and Chris Bosh's of the world, people still think freshman can just walk in here and dominate the game because of they did well in high school. Players still do develop in college. I know with the NBA early entrees and high school kids leaving early for NBA, people have lost sight of the fact that College players still need time to develop.
I've liked some of the things Sapp and Egerson have done in limited play. Although he excelled at the defensive end, Reed just seemed like he was in over his head offensively. Sapp and Egerson don't. Give it time. Player development still occurs in the college basketball game.
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Deleted
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Sapp
Mar 11, 2006 15:06:25 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2006 15:06:25 GMT -5
I think with the Carmelo Anthony's and Chris Bosh's of the world, people still think freshman can just walk in here and dominate the game because of they did well in high school. Players still do develop in college. I know with the NBA early entrees and high school kids leaving early for NBA, people have lost sight of the fact that College players still need time to develop. I've liked some of the things Sapp and Egerson have done in limited play. Although he excelled at the defensive end, Reed just seemed like he was in over his head offensively. Sapp and Egerson don't. Give it time. Player development still occurs in the college basketball game. Great post, and 100% true. Look at how much better Wallace and Hibbert have gotten since last season... and they're still getting better! Give Sapp, Egerson, Spann and Thornton a little time, people. To say "there's nothing there" after what... 5 minutes per game? That's just irresponsible and ignorant. I'm not saying he's going to be the next Gene Smith or Sleepy or anything, but I'm reserving judgment until the kid is given time to develop his game. If it takes until his senior year (and the same goes for Tyler and the other frosh), so be it. Not everyone has the same learning curve... I just want to see them - at some point - provide positive contributions to a winning squad. Oh, and _way I meant to take issue with something you posted last night: 2Pac as greatest of all time? C'mon... you're better than that. I don't even have him in my top 3
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Sapp
Mar 11, 2006 15:20:58 GMT -5
Post by jook97 on Mar 11, 2006 15:20:58 GMT -5
IMO, the key player from next year's sophs will be Thorton. I like Sapp spotting Wallace at the point, and i think he will do a decent enough job, but with DJ and Cook gone, we desperately need a #2 who can shoot, and what i hear, that is why Thorton was recruited. I wish he would have gotten more time in the rotation this year, but I guess when you have DJ as your 6th man, it was hard to work him in
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the_way
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Sapp
Mar 11, 2006 15:41:43 GMT -5
Post by the_way on Mar 11, 2006 15:41:43 GMT -5
I think with the Carmelo Anthony's and Chris Bosh's of the world, people still think freshman can just walk in here and dominate the game because of they did well in high school. Players still do develop in college. I know with the NBA early entrees and high school kids leaving early for NBA, people have lost sight of the fact that College players still need time to develop. I've liked some of the things Sapp and Egerson have done in limited play. Although he excelled at the defensive end, Reed just seemed like he was in over his head offensively. Sapp and Egerson don't. Give it time. Player development still occurs in the college basketball game. Oh, and _way I meant to take issue with something you posted last night: 2Pac as greatest of all time? C'mon... you're better than that. I don't even have him in my top 3 lol!! ;D Who is in your top 3?
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Deleted
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Sapp
Mar 11, 2006 16:02:11 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2006 16:02:11 GMT -5
lol!! ;D Who is in your top 3? Vanilla Ice. Marky Mark. Tone Loc. In all seriousness, my three faves are (in no particular order) Biggie, Chuck D, and a toss-up with Rakim/Pac/KRS-One/Nas/Too Short. And I'm not even thinking about groups at this point (NWA, Wu Tang, Tribe, The Roots, De La Soul) My only problem with 2Pac is the same problem I have with Jay-Z - their early stuff is so hard hitting, influential and important it makes their more commercial later efforts seem cheap by comparison (although "The Black Album" was a nice step up from "The Blueprint" series for S. Carter). Of course, I could probably say the same for Big... but I won't. He's, as you say, the illest.
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the_way
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Sapp
Mar 11, 2006 16:10:28 GMT -5
Post by the_way on Mar 11, 2006 16:10:28 GMT -5
lol!! ;D Who is in your top 3? Vanilla Ice. Marky Mark. Tone Loc. In all seriousness, my three faves are (in no particular order) Biggie, Chuck D, and a toss-up with Rakim/Pac/KRS-One/Nas. My only problem with 2Pac is the same problem I have with Jay-Z - their early stuff is so hard hitting, influential and important it makes their more commercial later efforts seem cheap by comparison (although "The Black Album" was a nice step up from "The Blueprint" series for S. Carter). Of course, I could probably say the same for Big... but I won't. He's, as you say, the illest. See, I hate Jay-Z. He tried to fill Biggie shoes but he couldn't. He is doing his thing, but he just isn't Biggie. In terms of Pac, I have to disagree. His "Me Against the World" and "Makaveli" albums are incredible and his best work, IMO. Yes, he deviated from what he talked about in his first album. Pac was rapping like Chuck D. on his first album, "2Pacolypse Now". But nah, Pac brought it home later on in his career. I didn't really care for "All Eyez on Me" as much. It was more of a Death Row album, than say a Pac album. It was still good though. "Strictly 4 My...." was okay. It had some of his best songs "get around" and "keep your head up" ,but Pac was still trying to find his niche in the game. KRS-One is up there too though in terms of greats. Gotta put Kane and Kool G. Rap up at the top. Ice Cube and Nas, as well.
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Deleted
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Sapp
Mar 11, 2006 16:15:00 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2006 16:15:00 GMT -5
Yeah, that was my beef with Pac... I was too broad. I just didn't care for his Death Row-heavy album(s). When he was just being himself, I loved it all...
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757hoyafan
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Sapp
Mar 11, 2006 16:17:32 GMT -5
Post by 757hoyafan on Mar 11, 2006 16:17:32 GMT -5
Cube, Kris Parker & Pac.... come on Buff, you didnt say short dog, did you? over Pac? I always like Short though, but I look @ cats like him & Luke as the same type of rapper..
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the_way
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Sapp
Mar 11, 2006 16:20:09 GMT -5
Post by the_way on Mar 11, 2006 16:20:09 GMT -5
Cube, Kris Parker & Pac.... come on Buff, you didnt say short dog, did you? over Pac? I always like Short though, but I look @ cats like him & Luke as the same type of rapper.. Nah, homie. Too Short is a legend. He had like 10 albums that went gold or platinum, with little airplay or radio play. His style wasn't as complex as say Nas or G Rap, but Short did his thing. Luke was more of mogul, even back then. He wasn't really a rapper. He was like a hard-edged P-diddy back then. All those groups that came out of Miami that are big now, have come through by the way of Luke at some point in their careers.
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757hoyafan
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Sapp
Mar 11, 2006 16:34:22 GMT -5
Post by 757hoyafan on Mar 11, 2006 16:34:22 GMT -5
I agree short is a legend, but I was mainly comparing their content really. I know Short has made "deeper" song than Luke, but their main topic is always about hoes...Luke didnt always make the chant type Songs like 'raise the roof' either..Short's flow & lyrics has always been basic, IMO...
yes, Trick, Pitbull & H-Town all of them is here because of Luke...
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Sapp
Mar 11, 2006 16:35:40 GMT -5
Post by longislandhoya19 on Mar 11, 2006 16:35:40 GMT -5
I'm not sure how HealyHoya can make a comparison of Sapp to Marcus Williams or Carl Krauser -- they both brought something to the table which Sapp doesn't seem to. Williams averaged nearly 4 more assists per game as a freshman than Sapp does (in 14 mpg) and Krauser doubled Sapp's scoring average, steals per game average, and he nearly doubled his assists per game average as well (6 ppg, 1.1 spg, 2.8 apg). Obviously, stats can't and don't tell the whole story, but they do provide some insight. Speaking of stats, I also have to take some issue with your suggestion that Sapp can "take and make 3's when appropriate"...he's shooting 17.9% from beyond the arc. He's hit a grand total of seven three-pointers this season.
I guess my biggest concern is that he may have potential (though I still feel his "potential" is overstated), but not really for this offense. His strengths seem to be his handle and his ability to finish around the basket. But he can't shoot and he doesn't do much passing besides simply swinging it around the perimiter. He also appears to lack the quickness to get to the basket, which negates the effect of his dribbling ability and his finishing ability.
I don't dislike Jessie Sapp, and I don't think he's a bad player by any stretch of the imagination. I love guards who can defend and I have a soft spot in my heart for guys from New York. My issue is simply with people who act like Sapp has a load of untapped potential. I just don't see it. He's a servicable guard, I suppose, but I'm still very concerned about having a backcourt of Sapp and Wallace. I think we'll be in worse shape than people are implying.
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757hoyafan
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Sapp
Mar 11, 2006 16:49:20 GMT -5
Post by 757hoyafan on Mar 11, 2006 16:49:20 GMT -5
If Coach can make JW a decent PG, why not Sapp?
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Sapp
Mar 11, 2006 19:54:44 GMT -5
Post by shemshaun on Mar 11, 2006 19:54:44 GMT -5
Cook and Wallace are hitting 42% and 43% on 3's. 5% higher than their first year under III, for Cook 11% higher than his last year under Esh. I think, other than in a few games this year in which we jacked way to many 3's, the improvement comes from better shot selection. Though I can't say that I've analysed the form of either player. Furthermore, next year Sapp is going to get better looks with improved (urge to gamble rising...rising) post play from JG and Roy. I don't think Sapp will shoot 17% from beyond the arc next year. I agree that there will be reason for concern, especially if he shoots sub 30%. All things considered, I don't see why he couldn't shoot between 32%-36%.
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HealyHoya
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Sapp
Mar 11, 2006 22:56:23 GMT -5
Post by HealyHoya on Mar 11, 2006 22:56:23 GMT -5
Longisland, my point in comparing wasn't to show that Sapp did as much or more than Williams or Krauser as a freshman but rather that even those two -- probably two of the best PG's in the BE over the past 2-3 years, didn't do all that much in their first year. Did they bring more to the table? Maybe. Did they have more playing time? Definitely. Were they asked to do more immediately? Absolutely. My point - which I should have made more clearly - simply echos what has been said: it is a bit difficult more any of us to conclude that Sapp lacks potential to contribute at a high level solely based on what we saw during his limited game action.
I mean, think of it this way...if we assume Sapp got gametime run because III liked him in practice, has that much confidence in him, believes he contributes something that this year's squad needs, etc. then clearly III thinks he has potential. And if you disagree, which is certainly your right, what does that say then about the potential shown by Egerson, Spann and Thorton?
They got much less run than Sapp. So do they have zero potential? If they had any (like Sapp), wouldn't they have received more PT (like Sapp)?
Sapp can play.
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hoyaboy1
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Sapp
Mar 12, 2006 1:03:25 GMT -5
Post by hoyaboy1 on Mar 12, 2006 1:03:25 GMT -5
Sapp can't shoot, so for him to be a valuable player he will have to start driving. If he does, he will be a useful player.
If he doesn't he'll never get beyond the role he has now. I am very worried about him, to be honest. It isn't a good sign that we are writing him in as a starter for next year with no confidence at all in his offense.
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sweetness
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Sapp
Mar 12, 2006 1:24:08 GMT -5
Post by sweetness on Mar 12, 2006 1:24:08 GMT -5
Not sure how you can jump to the conclusion that Sapp can't shoot -- clearly there is not enough evidence to support this, not to mention the fact that kids improve with more reps. Right now Sapp is playing a supporting role, and is very deferential on offense. Also, please speak for yourself when you say you have no confidence in his offense.
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