EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Oct 18, 2004 16:02:42 GMT -5
I don't want anyone to think this thread is intended to criticize JTIII since, from all reports, he is out there plugging away in the recruit world and it may take time to bring in a really good recruiting class. That being said, it seems to me that our 2005 recruiting class to date has not been that good. We have commitments from Thornton, Spann and Egerson. Insiders rates Thornton as 3-star, Spann as 3-star and Egerson not rated (as far as I can find). Rivals rates Thornton as #37 G and 3-Star, Spann as #29 F and 3-star, and Egerson not rated. I realize that high rating services ratings do not guarantee success (e.g. Perry) and lower ratings do not guarantee lack of success (fill in the blank), but it's at least a strong suggestion. I think that, to date, our 2005 recruiting class is mediocre, at best. Unless and until we land a Goodridge, Bynum, Sapp or Aboya - and get LOI's from them - I think we may end up with next year's class being as not as good as this year's. Of course, Thornton, Spann and Egerson may turn out to be great (and I really hope they are) but it's makes one wonder. Fire away!
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aggypryd
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Post by aggypryd on Oct 18, 2004 16:06:35 GMT -5
Rankings aren't always what they're cracked up to be...
Look at the Duke players...Coach K gets these supposedly high ranked players year in and year out...after college, they end up on the bench next to him...
As long as JTIII is getting people that can play in the system, they'll be OK...
We all know that the system works...
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GUHoya07
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Post by GUHoya07 on Oct 18, 2004 16:43:19 GMT -5
I just want to say that I believe Spann is an extremely talented player and you especially can't get too concerned with his ranking. Justin Young, an expert on the rivals network has expressed his belief that Spann would be ranked much higher had it not been for an injury that kept him from participating on the AAU circuit over the summer.
Remember, he was a top-50 recruit before the summer.
Also, let's not get too caught up in rankings right now, even though I must admit that it is hard to avoid.
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Eurostar
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Post by Eurostar on Oct 18, 2004 16:52:04 GMT -5
Is it a problem that Spann and Egerson are listed at the same position (SF)? It seems to me no, because they say Spann is 6'7 and more of a 3 or 4, and Egerson is 6'5 and more of a 1,2,or 3. Can these assumptions be confirmed by people who have seen them play? It seems like they will be taking over for a similar tandem of DJ and Brandon.
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Oct 18, 2004 17:12:05 GMT -5
That Edgerson and Spann seem pretty similar physically worries me a little. Their ratings do not. Look, I would prefer Sam Young to either of these guys, and he's probably even more below the radar. Spann was injured all summer and got no exposure. Edgerson didn't play AAU ball with any frequency. Our best incoming recruit, and probably our best recruit since Sweets, is unranked by pretty much every service in the country. He had no stars on rivals. And yet local writers think he's only a step behind Rudy Gay, many author's pick for national frosh of the year.
This class is a clear upgrade in terms of our talent. Is it a quantum leap? No. But it's shaping up to be comfortably in the top half of the BE. Baby steps.
As for Thorton, he is what he is. He is reputed to be one of the best pure shooters in the class, and as a bonus, he's a pretty nice athlete as well. Teams need role players too. And having watched the Hoyas clang threes for the past decade or so, it will be nice to see a kid who can really stroke it from anywhere. In a motion offense, he will thrive.
We need to add a big man to finish this class off. Be it Goodridge or Aboya or some as yet unnamed option, I will be very pleased with our class this year.
If anyone expected JTIII to show up on campus and pull in a top 10 class, they were dreaming. Instead, we've already signed two kids who, for varoius reasons, are undervalued. And one system player who will help immediately. We will be better this year than last, and even better next year After about a decade of decline, we're on an upward trajectory again. Everyone should feel good about that.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Oct 18, 2004 17:13:51 GMT -5
All three are three stars on rivals...you have to check 2004 for Egerson
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Oct 18, 2004 20:37:52 GMT -5
No, we're not getting four or five star players. Unless Goodridge signs. Except...
Octavious Spann was Top 50 on Rivals before he got hurt, and missed the summer AAU season. He slipped because he didn't play. I'm not sure he would have been Top had he played, but he he's sitting in the 120s/130s now in an out of sight-out of mind business. Not worried about Tay.
Josh Thornton was ranked really high for a while, which was probably wrong. What is true about Josh is that he is one of the best, if not the best, shooter in the 2005 class. By all accounts, his range extends well beyond the NBA three point land. He fills a huge need. And so what if he isn't a Top Tier all-around talent (yet). He's got a Top Five talent.
Marc Egerson is another guy who didn't play AAU ball this summer. He's slipped because of grades and the AAU thing. The locals at DEPreps love him. Consensus seems to be that he's Top 100 talent. But youre right, he's not well-ranked.
I view this class as three Top 100 guys. Aboya would make it four. That's solid. That doesn't mean Spann or Egerson couldn't become a star. But we haven't recruited an actual star. Goodridge could change that.
Otherwise, though, if this class finishes with a nice fourth, and these folks all make it to the hilltop, I'd say the pre-hilltop view of this class shouldn't be all that different than the 2004 class.
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Post by basil1 on Oct 19, 2004 4:32:19 GMT -5
To be doing as well as he is with '05 is impressive. Recruiting these days starts with freshmem and sophmores. Also, it is important for him to have a core of players who will be here for 4 years. The offense is difficult to run without skillled, experienced upper classmen. It was really ugly at Northwestern the first year without players who were experienced with it.
Coaches Thompson and Burke did extremely well recruiting talent at Princeton and I am sure '06 and '07 will be kids they have focused on to fill positions and needs.
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Post by Hilltopper on Oct 19, 2004 8:47:41 GMT -5
I agree that rankings are often way off base. I also want to point out that as important as finding talent, is finding the player who will flourish in the system. Even better is finding the player with the ability and desire to become a great player. I hope the board forgives me this comparison, but if you look across town, Gary Williams brought Maryland where it is by finding "under the radar" kids who became great. If you have confidence in your eye for talent and your ability to develop talent, as I hope Coach Thompson and staff do, then where recruits are ranked means nothing.
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Hoya50
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Post by Hoya50 on Oct 19, 2004 8:54:34 GMT -5
in today's world, it's the teams that get a unit of players to play well together that are successful. if jtiiii is able to establish a successful style of play, that will compensate for a lack of superstars on a team.
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1803
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Post by 1803 on Oct 19, 2004 11:35:38 GMT -5
I agree with a lot of what has been said on this thread.
There are three major ingredients to sustaining a winning program in college basketball.
The first constant is the coach. It is no accident that year in and year out, the Top 25 contains so many repeats. These coaches, along with the support of the athletic department and university know how to get it done. Thompson did well at Princeton, but he has no record amongst the big boys in the Big East. We are just going to have to wait and see.
The second thing you need is the ability to bring in solid classes year in and year out. The program changing talents of the world, the Ewing's, the Iverson's, and Mournings of the world are not going to be available every year, and it is foolish to think that you can land a Number One pick every year. Instead you should be looking to get solid guys consistently, and once in a while the true difference maker will arrive, giving real hope of a Final Four, National Championship season.
The third, and most lacking thing during the Esherick years was playing together. Being crisp in the half court set, not turning the ball over mindlessly, and playing good D. This was the reason many of us were hoping for a new coach. I never had anything against Craig personally, but I thought his teams looked lost too much of the time. I am hoping JT III is going to improve us on this front. Time will tell.
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aggypryd
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Post by aggypryd on Oct 19, 2004 13:00:47 GMT -5
Truth be told...
You don't need a bunch of World-Beaters to be a good basketball team...
You need about three Blue-Chippers and a very strong and solid surrounding cast...
Look at the '96, '87, and '89 squads...
A few great players surrounded by solid players...except for Sam Jefferson...
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Post by stafford72 on Oct 19, 2004 13:25:40 GMT -5
I don't agree with the contention that the 2005 recruiting class is going to be below par. Given our recent record and the always prevalent fan indifference and facilities issues, I think that JTIII has done very well.
Let's assume that he recruits either Goodridge or Aboya. That means that all 4 of his recruits are in the top 75-150 range. Given the variance of ranked lists, let's place 200 players in this category. Since there are about 320 teams in Division 1, that means that less than one of these players on average goes to each school's recruiting class.
Even limiting the schools to top conferences, by my calculation that still leaves 102 schools, or roughly 2 players per school. Seems to me that 4 recruits is well above the curve. Not getting someone as highly ranked as the top 25 is offset by the additional likelihood of extra seasons per recruit of lesser touted NBA prospects.
At least wait and see the results of his first year recruits when they actually play before casting any stones.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Oct 19, 2004 14:32:45 GMT -5
While the program is rebuilding and establishing a new identity under JTIII we have to find hard working, versatile, tenacious players with an incredible work ethic. We have to trust JTIII is looking for the diamonds in the rough, the guys who will make his system work and will work well together. The better the new system functions next season and the season after, the more top recruits will become interested. While he is looking to win soon (I think we will surprise all the pundits) he is also thinking long term. He needs an influx of players who will fit his system. The better they do that, the better we play, the better the recruits who come calling.
Also, I'm impressed that coming in so late into the game...JTIII just showed up on campus for god's sake...and he hit the trail hard. We are in the final running for the #1 center in the country. We have slugged it out all summer for top recruits and are sitting pretty for the next class, with many of the top 50 listing us very highly. JTIII is everywhere and creating a serious buzz. Have no fear...
Also Egerson is regarded by many as a future pro-prospect. He has serious academic questions and has been reclassified in the past. Had these issues not been there, he is definitely top 100 if not higher. He is a huge, muscular guard/small forward who flies. There are pictures online of him 6-8" above the rim! He plays every position from SF to PG...He absolutely destroyed the Delware circuit that featured such Hoya favorites as Josh Thornton and Eric Boateng...
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Oct 19, 2004 17:37:20 GMT -5
Listen, if JT3 just recruits some kids who don't transfer out of here within a year or two he'll already be way ahead of where we were!
Stopping the roster turnover is #1. The 2001 class (Bethel, Hall, Thomas and Owens) resulted in only one player who actually stayed at GU.
My impression is that JT3 has us in the running for a lot of top kids, far more than in recent years. And it sounds like he has already convinced some good ones to join us.
Finally, taking a shot on an academic risk here and there is OK (IMHO), but it should be the rare exception.
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aggypryd
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Post by aggypryd on Oct 20, 2004 9:51:42 GMT -5
Finally, taking a shot on an academic risk here and there is OK (IMHO), but it should be the rare exception. If you're going to consistently win, you'll be taking that risk a lot more than 'here and there'...
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Oct 20, 2004 12:08:52 GMT -5
If you're going to consistently win, you'll be taking that risk a lot more than 'here and there'... Tell that to Stanford. Or Duke, before the last few years.
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aggypryd
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Post by aggypryd on Oct 20, 2004 15:57:17 GMT -5
Tell that to Stanford. Or Duke, before the last few years. Do you think that every basketball player that walked through the doors at Stanford and Duke has fulfilled every admission requirement that those schools place on all incoming freshmen? Please tell me you don't believe that craziness... College sports is a Billion Dollar industry...Do you actually think those schools would take chances on missing out on some of that loot? I know two guys personally...[Edited.] You need to come out of your shell and step into the real world, my friend...
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Oct 20, 2004 16:06:37 GMT -5
Do you think that every basketball player that walked through the doors at Stanford and Duke has fulfilled every admission requirement that those schools place on all incoming freshmen? Please tell me you don't believe that craziness... College sports is a Billion Dollar industry...Do you actually think those schools would take chances on missing out on some of that loot? I know two guys personally... You need to come out of your shell and step into the real world, my friend... One, the original poster said every once in a while, which is pretty much what Duke used to do. (No longer). You acted as if they need to throw academics away. I know for a fact that Stanford honors its academic requirements in almost every case. I have talked to Stanford Football coaches and members of their athleitc department as they bitch that they can't get a player with a 1050 SAT into school. Stanford rejected Davis Nwankwo just this year, for an example. The standards are not as high as the Stanford student body, but you're kidding yourself if you think they let in kids with 2.3 GPAs and 850 SATs. They don't. It kills their football team, but basketball, well, you can find that many smart players. As for your money theory, almost all money that is disbursed for college athletics is split equally in the conference. So they aren't throwing away millions. They succeed without that anyway. And if you've ever been to Stanford's campus, you understand they are NEVER lacking for cash.
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aggypryd
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Post by aggypryd on Oct 20, 2004 16:35:27 GMT -5
One, the original poster said every once in a while, which is pretty much what Duke used to do. (No longer). You acted as if they need to throw academics away. I know for a fact that Stanford honors its academic requirements in almost every case. I have talked to Stanford Football coaches and members of their athleitc department as they bitch that they can't get a player with a 1050 SAT into school. Stanford rejected Davis Nwankwo just this year, for an example. The standards are not as high as the Stanford student body, but you're kidding yourself if you think they let in kids with 2.3 GPAs and 850 SATs. They don't. It kills their football team, but basketball, well, you can find that many smart players. As for your money theory, almost all money that is disbursed for college athletics is split equally in the conference. So they aren't throwing away millions. They succeed without that anyway. And if you've ever been to Stanford's campus, you understand they are NEVER lacking for cash. I would love to hear why Duke no longer has high academic standards...I pretty much know what you're going to say...but I want to hear you say it... Once again, someone who looks at my posts and sees what they want to see... How are you going to interpret what you said from what I said? How do you jump to that conclusion? What I said was, "If you're going to consistently win, you'll be taking that risk a lot more than 'here and there'... " I never said to throw academics away...but so many have...look at how many kids get used and never receive degrees... And if you're going to compete on the level with the schools that don't really care if their kids graduate or not, then you will join-up with the rest of them...or you'll just win every once in awhile... Some of you will say, "It's on the players to graduate." Then how do you explain functionally illiterate players being accepted at prestigious universities? Kenny Williams at UNC...Dexter Manley at Oklahoma State...Shawn Kemp at IU and UK...John 'Hot Rod' Williams at Tulane... Certainly the universities knew before they arrived that they couldn't do the work... College sports is a multi-Billion dollar industry... Think about how much money Coach K gets for letting 'Nike' put their brand across Duke's Player's chests... Think about how much money Coach Bowden gets for his weekly TV show... Think about how much money people like Dickie V and Billy Packer make because of these kids... Think about how much money the University of Michigan made from selling No. 4 jerseys...then Michigan had the nerve to get upset with Chris Webber for taking some money from a booster... If you think that works out to a few hundred thousand dollars a year, then you're a d*mn fool...
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