Can Catholic Schools Compete?

[fsohoya]

Frank Deford has an interesting little piece on why Catholic colleges struggle in a sports world dominated by massive state universities. Georgetown's challenges are the problem in microcosm:

sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/frank_deford/02/28/frank/index.html

[Jack]

Tiny Gonzaga of Spokane, Wash. -- enrollment hardly 1,600 -- is the best team in all the west, with perhaps the national Player of the Year: Adam Morrison.

More like 6,300. But whatever makes the story better. Who is this Gonzaga? I have never heard of such a school. They play in Washington? Must be near Seattle. No? All the way out in Spokane? And they are good at basketball? I might pick them to win a game in my office pool this year then.

[SFHoya99]

The Catholic/Private/Non-football schools' so-called decline has a lot more to do with increased competition, a lack of interest in competing and a culture that was slow to adapt with the times than some huge advantage that BCS/state schools have.

The big schools have a monetary advantage, for sure. But, like in all sports, money is an advantage that quickly declines in utility. Schools like GU are catching up in fundraising. Once you can match a coach's salary, rent out an NBA arena, the only advantage state schools have in money is practice facilities.

Which are nice, but are hardly a common defining decision in where to play.

If a school chooses to support its team, it can succeed. If an administration neglects it, it will fail. It is that simple and has nothing to do with state school or no.

[DFW HOYA]

At first glance, this looks like a retread of an article Deford wrote in Sports Illustrated 20 years ago. It seems to be more a compilation than actually breaking new ground, which lends credence to the observation that Deford actually stopped substantive writing 15 or so years ago.

The issues raised have very little...make that, nothing to do with Catholic education per se, but the relative size and budgetary powers of schools. The same issues at St. Joe's or Creighton is not far removed from decisions at Drexel and Bradley, or even second and third tier state schools.

N.B.: I'm not convinced that schools like GU are actually "catching up in fundraising", but at least it's a start.

[Jack]

Stick to NPR, Frank.

[fsohoya]

I think he exaggerates Catholic schools' problems in hoops, but state schools clearly have a big advantage in football, and football still drives the college sports train. Indeed, our own conference has been learning that - and may get future lessons - the hard way. I would say most private schools (RC and other) are at a huge disadvantage in football. Other than ND, Miami, USC, and the traitors at BC, I can't think of too many non-public schools that are regularly competitive in D-1 football.

[FOTP]

Basketball and Football are two totally different animals and must be separated entirely.

the Catholic part isn't really that critical either. It comes down to private smaller schools vs. state schools.

[fsohoya]

I agree, FOTP, that it's really a private vs. state school issue. However, I don't think you can seperate basketball and football, because football drives so much of a school's costs and revenue, and because football is driving conference alignments.

[FOTP]

I agree. I just meant in terms of competing at those sports.

Football is huge and drives a lot of revenue and expenses.

I just think Catholic schools/private schools can certainly compete in basketball, but not football.

[2ndRyan]

I agree this article is old news. Catholic (actually urban schools) have been losing out to State U for years. NYU was a national power thru the fifties.

Marquette won in '77 but the last Catholic school before that was Loyola of Chicago 24 years earlier.

The new threat is the BCS use of football revenue to subsidize everything else. If the Big East does split along Football/non-Football lines how Georgetown, Villanova St john's and others find a way to field nationally competitive teams will be the issue. I think as Gonzaga is showing us, it can be done.

Interesting trivia- with the exception of Villanova in '85 I think all the post-WWII Catholic NCAA champions are Jesuit schools.

[theexorcist]

The op-ed is an interesting read (others have made the point that the issues he brings up aren't new), but I think it's worth reading it for the last line:

"Perhaps at the end of the NCAAs this year, some white smoke will rise above the domed stadium in Indianapolis."

[FrazierFanatic]

theexorcist said:

The op-ed is an interesting read (others have made the point that the issues he brings up aren't new), but I think it's worth reading it for the last line:

"Perhaps at the end of the NCAAs this year, some white smoke will rise above the domed stadium in Indianapolis."

I know he could not possibly be talking about 'Nova or Gonzaga, so he is obviously predicting a Hoya national title! How nice of him.

[DFW HOYA]

fotp said:

I just think Catholic schools/private schools can certainly compete in basketball, but not football.

If that's the case, why is Notre Dame successful? Or BC?

Answer? Because they make it a priority, and most do not. Catholic schools are not precluded from success in any field if there is the institutional will to do so.

[Nevada Hoya]

2ndryan said:

Marquette won in '77 but the last Catholic school before that was Loyola of Chicago 24 years earlier.

Oops. It was only 14 years earlier in 1963 that Loyola won the title (and GU beat the Ramblers in Chicago the next year).

Deford did have this commentary on NPR this morning, prefaced by indicating that this was Ash Wednesday, first day of Lent, which led into a discussion of Catholic schools.

[HoyaSinceBirth]

this is why football should be banned and all money distributed to basketball and other sports. I don't mean just at gtown i mean world wide.

[fsohoya]

I wouldn't say Catholic schools can't be successfull in football, I would say, though, that it is much harder for any private school - Catholic or other - to compete in D-1A. With the exception of USC, ND, BC, and Miami, which private schools are regularly competitive? Very few. I would guess this is ultimately a function of fan base size, and therefore revenue. Many state schools draw on huge alumni bases and have the allegiance of many state residents who didn't even go to the school. Very few private schools can do that.

[CTHoya08]

hoyasincebirth said:

this is why football should be banned and all money distributed to basketball and other sports. I don't mean just at gtown i mean world wide.

That's probably one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this board.

[georgetowngrad05]

With the exception of USC, ND, BC, and Miami, which private schools are regularly competitive?

USC? I am almost postitive they are a public school. ND, BC, and Miami also have large stadiums that make money. Money almost always drives success in D-1 football. It's all about facilities.

[tgo]

USC is a private school

[SFHoya99]

Southern Cal is a private institution. But it is a bigger school with a lot of sports history in a state where the state institutions have not been focused on "big time" sports. (California has not put the money into football and basketball historically that a state like Tennessee does -- no gigantic coaching contracts unless the boosters pay it, no $1B gifts like UConn got).

And now, with LA being such a frontrunner city, the Lakers mediocre, the NFL gone, and the Dodgers uninspiring, USC OWNS the city.