hoopsmccan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,419
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Post by hoopsmccan on Jan 25, 2006 11:22:56 GMT -5
I think this is a problem with NBA scouting. In baseball circles, in the last several years, there has at least been talk about looking at production and moving away from raw, 5-tool talents. This doesn't seem like its happening in basketball - I realize you can't teach size, but at this moment Hibbert's game does not resemble a NBA player's game in anyway. He is still a bit stiff, is not a good rebounder for his size, often brings the ball down before shooting making him 6-7 rather than 7-2, and has very little post game. Some of his weaknesses can be corrected/improved, but I think it can only happen in college rather than as a NBA 12th man. No doubt some team would, but I don't understand why a team would use a 1st round pick on Hibbert after this year. Frankly, I don't think its an issue, because I don't think Hibbert is going anywhere.
hm
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2006 11:24:08 GMT -5
"Still, Hibbert had enough touches Tuesday to score 18 points. He grabbed 13 rebounds" He makes the above quote, but says he can not flourish in JT3's system, go figure. I was thinking the same thing. We have a raw 19 year old kid who's putting up 18 and 13, and the "system" is holding him back? God, I'd like to see what he could do in another system. Yes and no - obviously, the 18 and 13 last night are great, and he's had some other games that were comparable. He's also had some other games where he's been invisible or out of the lineup. The System is definitely not ideal for him - not when he get so many touches at the top of the key. His numbers would skyrocket in the old JT2 "Four guys on one side of the floor, and Big Man posts his guy up on the other side" system that we employed so regularly with Othella back in the day....
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Post by RockawayHoya on Jan 25, 2006 11:34:54 GMT -5
I was thinking the same thing. We have a raw 19 year old kid who's putting up 18 and 13, and the "system" is holding him back? God, I'd like to see what he could do in another system. Yes and no - obviously, the 18 and 13 last night are great, and he's had some other games that were comparable. He's also had some other games where he's been invisible or out of the lineup. The System is definitely not ideal for him - not when he get so many touches at the top of the key. His numbers would skyrocket in the old JT2 "Four guys on one side of the floor, and Big Man posts his guy up on the other side" system that we employed so regularly with Othella back in the day.... I agree the system isn't ideal for him, but that's not to say he can't succeed in it. There have been game plans by opposing coaches this year made specifically to take him away. And you can't blame the times he's seen limited minutes on the "system." I would equate "not being able to flourish in the system" with PEJr.'s situation at Indiana.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,736
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 25, 2006 11:44:51 GMT -5
"Still, Hibbert had enough touches Tuesday to score 18 points. He grabbed 13 rebounds" He makes the above quote, but says he can not flourish in JT3's system, go figure. Hibbert actually gets as many touches as anyone on the team when he's in. The issue isn't utilization when he's in, it is minutes. And for every Duke game where keeping him out is an offensive decision, there's a game where Roy's minutes are limited by his stamina or defensive play. He'll get there.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,259
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Post by prhoya on Jan 25, 2006 12:27:56 GMT -5
Roy will be huge when he develops his hook to a Jabbar level. He needs to practice it (and his defense) day in, day out until it comes natural (a la Jabbar). NBA teams will be drooling...
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Post by FairfaxHoya on Jan 25, 2006 14:04:54 GMT -5
What Roy needs to add is a foul-line jumper (NOTHING FURTHER OUT! - I can't stand 7-footers shooting threes, other than Dirk) and a few quick moves he can use when he ducks into the lane - a jump hook and a drop-step, for instance. The key is for him to be able to make those moves with speed and confidence.
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SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 747
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Post by SirSaxa on Jan 25, 2006 14:41:55 GMT -5
Given the enormous progress Roy made between last year and this, his remarkable determinationand drive, and the coaching he gets from JT3, POPS, and assorted Hoya alums in the offseason, I don't think we need to worry about his development. He and those around him are well aware and collectively making enormous progress.
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MEGAFAN
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 649
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Post by MEGAFAN on Jan 25, 2006 15:46:17 GMT -5
to be honest, i think, other than hibbs, the most improved player is ashanti. some of his drives to the hoop tonight were amazing and his outside shot looks great. if he can keep his handle under control and continue to have 5+ assists per game, while averaging double digits, he will get looks on the pro level, even if that is not the NBA...he has really, really impressed me with his play over the last 10 days. While I don't necessarily want to get into the most-improved player debate (there are several candidates), I am so happy to see more posters (yeah williambraskyiii!) commending Ashanti Cook (the Chef) for his stellar play. I'm sick of watching AC play clutch basketball, at times seemingly being the only guy on the floor who plays with big balls and no fear, and then reading about "a quiet 16 points he had," or descriptions of "no, no, yes... Ashanti." For some reason, more often than not on this board, he is not given due credit for his contributions to this team. Obviously, JW has improved tremendously and played remarkably well at times, but this is not at the expense of AC's great play. (Together they make up a tremendous backcourt, and espite their troubles against the truly elite quick guards, they have more than held their own against top competition.) Back to AC. I mean, this is the man who has single-handedly won games for us (dating back to both buzzer-beating plays last season) and also demonstrated the ability to take (and make) tough shots when no one else is scoring. Yesterday he had 16 points and 6 assists with ZERO turnover's. Against Duke, his remarkable offensive rebound, some truly great penetrating drives, and his handling of the ball (alongside JW) against the pressure (not to mention his three point shooting) were fantastic. I know that we all have favorites, and I would be lying if I acted like I haven't lobbied for Cook since his first year here when he didn't get the minutes I thought he earned, but let's face it, he has taken perhaps more undeserved criticism than anyone on this team. I can remember people on this board, earlier in the year, suggesting that perhaps he shouldn't start, or acting as though we will be upgrading his position next season. Don't fool yourselves into thinking we won't miss Cook. I like Sapp (NYC in the house!), but Ashanti is one of the leaders on this team, and the part of the reason that I say THIS is our season to do big things, not next year or afterwards. Of course, I would be kidding myself if I didn't think that we are bringing in a major upgrade in talent, but we have three seniors on this team and three sophomores that are mature beyond their years. Next year, we will lose these guys, and it may take a year or so to get the new talent up to speed. I love what's going on with the HOYAS this season, and I think they're growing and will continue to improve. In fact, without setting lofty expectations, I still say this is the team whose chances I like best of doing something special in the post-season. And Ashanti Cook is a big reason for my optimism. We have collectively questioned this teams' leadership, especially the seniors, throughout this season. We've talked about not having enough old-school tough Hoyas, such as a JYD or Burton, but in the form of a combo guard, we have a tough player in Ashanti to be thankful for. Brandon has been playing with fire lately, and Owens does his thing too, but Ashanti is the senior leader on this team. And as the old saying goes, "as goes Ashanti, so go the Hoyas!" Ashanti Cook: Congrats on your great play. Keep up the hard work, and keep driving, dishing and shooting!!! LET'S GO HOYAS!!! COOK CINCI!
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on Jan 25, 2006 16:01:03 GMT -5
"Still, Hibbert had enough touches Tuesday to score 18 points. He grabbed 13 rebounds" He makes the above quote, but says he can not flourish in JT3's system, go figure. I was thinking the same thing. We have a raw 19 year old kid who's putting up 18 and 13, and the "system" is holding him back? God, I'd like to see what he could do in another system. The system does "hold him back" in a way because if he was on another team, say Pitt, he would be planted near the basket at all times and would be getting more touches inside the paint. If you have a 7'2 guy with touch that is how most people would use him. However III has a system which requires the big men, even one like Roy, to do other things. And that's not bad. Dean Smith system in many ways held Jordan back. If Jordan had been playing for Tark he probably would have averaged 30 plus points per game his soph and junior seasons. But in the end Jordan wasn't hurt by it because the fundamentals were stressed under Dean. I see the same thing with Roy. Even when he's ready to put up huge numbers I don't ever see him doing it because III's sytem doesn't work like that. And that will probably go for most good players that come to Gtown. I don't see anyone averaging 20 points per when the system emphasizes team over individual. I don't have a problem with that.
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,419
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Post by MCIGuy on Jan 25, 2006 16:16:37 GMT -5
One reason I felt good about the team's chances this season was because of the return of the three seniors, including Cook. They just had to live up to their potential and provide leadership. I think the problem for Cook has been his turnovers in a few games (specifically at Storrs). Outside of that he has been very solid this season.
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EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
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Post by EasyEd on Jan 25, 2006 16:29:20 GMT -5
I agree with Mega, we will miss our three seniors next year, big time.
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FOTP
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,435
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Post by FOTP on Jan 25, 2006 16:33:56 GMT -5
Ashanti has been great along with JW. I think the key for both of them is acting like threats on the backcuts. When the guards are scared that they can score inside it opens everything else up for drives.
Our offense is truly a thing of beauty when run properly and all 5 guys believing in each other.
Plus, we've started to get into the offense quicker the last two games. Take the first open shot instead of waiting until 5 second to go and getting a rushed shot.
Good work..now let's school the Bearcats...
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,736
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 25, 2006 16:35:00 GMT -5
As for Cook, he's probably the best guy on the team at getting off a quality shot whenever he wants it.
For those who hate desperation threes as the shot clock expires, he's your man. He's got great lift on his j and has a nice fade-away, and he's bailed us out with that many more times that once.
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