guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,605
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Post by guru on Jan 19, 2006 18:09:07 GMT -5
More than any other part of basketball, rebounding is about desire (remember when 6-4 Perry McDonald used to absolutely abuse Rony Seikaly on the glass?), which makes our failures in that department even more puzzling. Is it just that our players are too passive? We certainly have the height and size to hang with most teams - which means our deficiencies must lie in fundamentals and desire. I'll be at the game on Saturday, but the last Hoya game I saw in person was last season's finale against Providence, and I can't recall seeing any team get so demolished on the boards. From what I've read, we haven't really improved much in this area thus far this year - and if we bring that kind of effort against Duke, it will be over early.
The only upside is that this seems like an easy area for improvement. Our guys just need to be more aggressive. I have to imagine that JT3 is trying to get this message across, but it hasn't worked yet.
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RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,135
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Post by RBHoya on Jan 19, 2006 18:19:53 GMT -5
I'm with you. Height is overrated in rebounding, IMO. I mean, our starting frontline is one of the biggest in America, but we still seem to get our butts kicked on the glass. I've been unable to determine whether it's an effort/hustle thing, whether we have bad rebounding technique (boxing out/positioning) or maybe some mix. Sometimes I think keeping our big guys away from the basket hurts us for offensive boards, but it seems like it's a problem on both ends of the floor. Hibbert's lack of speed hurts, I think. He is anything but nimble, and I think good rebounders often are nimble along with being tall. You have to have quickness enough to slide in front of the opposition and box out. Roy can't do that. If he doesn't have inside position when the shot goes up, he isn't going to get it. Jeff does have that sort of quickness, as does Brandon, but neither of them have been overwhelming and I'm not sure why. I think playing away from the basket hurts jeff on O, and the sequence of "Jon get's beat, Roy/Jeff steps up to help, shot misses but opposing player gets putback as a result of not getting boxed out" that we see so often gives a glimpse into a big problem at the defensive end.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,791
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 19, 2006 18:28:55 GMT -5
Our defensive rebounding is greatly improved from last year, thanks mostly to Roy. But it is really inconsistent, and gets pretty bad on both ends when Roy isn't in.
We hung with UConn and blitzed Providence on the D boards this year, but also lost the battle to a poor rebounding team in WVU and were destroyed by SJU.
We don't box out consistently, and our big guy is slow. Our quick guys aren't bulky. Effort may be a factor, I dunno. Our guards (Ashanti, Jon, Jesse and DO) range from mediocre to awful, and Marc and Tyler don't get enough time to counteract that.
Next year, we may have a point where Roy, Macklin and Pat are all on the floor together, together with Marc and maybe Jeremiah Rivers (6'4"). That lineup has some rebounding teeth!
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,440
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Post by lichoya68 on Jan 19, 2006 20:03:30 GMT -5
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HoyaSox04
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Founding member of the ROCK-tavius Spann Fan Club.
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Post by HoyaSox04 on Jan 19, 2006 20:12:03 GMT -5
One of the main reasons why our offensive rebounding numbers are so poor is the Princeton offense. Think about it – when we’re setting up for open looks around the perimeter, who is often the lynchpin at the top of the key?
The big men, Roy and Jeff. A lot of the offense early on in the set tends to run thru them at the top of the key. And when we take early shots on open looks, they are still out there. And its awful tough to get quality offensive rebounding when your biggest and best rebounders are working away from the rim.
Now, I’m not saying this is a bad thing. Not at all. Its just reality, our modus operandi if you will.
It doesn’t have a lot to do with tenacity and heart and desire for us most of the time – really, its all a by-product of our offensive movement and positioning, which often leave Jeff, Roy and to an extent Brandon (who I do believe is our best rebounder) away from the basket a sufficient amount so as to make it nearly impossible to get offensive rebounds that fall near the basket.
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RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,135
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Post by RBHoya on Jan 19, 2006 20:36:07 GMT -5
One of the main reasons why our offensive rebounding numbers are so poor is the Princeton offense. Think about it – when we’re setting up for open looks around the perimeter, who is often the lynchpin at the top of the key? The big men, Roy and Jeff. A lot of the offense early on in the set tends to run thru them at the top of the key. And when we take early shots on open looks, they are still out there. And its awful tough to get quality offensive rebounding when your biggest and best rebounders are working away from the rim. Now, I’m not saying this is a bad thing. Not at all. Its just reality, our modus operandi if you will. It doesn’t have a lot to do with tenacity and heart and desire for us most of the time – really, its all a by-product of our offensive movement and positioning, which often leave Jeff, Roy and to an extent Brandon (who I do believe is our best rebounder) away from the basket a sufficient amount so as to make it nearly impossible to get offensive rebounds that fall near the basket. I don't have the stats, but I'd say that not only are we bad on the offensive boards, but the defensive boards as well. Can't really blame the offense there.
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HoyaSox04
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Founding member of the ROCK-tavius Spann Fan Club.
Posts: 726
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Post by HoyaSox04 on Jan 19, 2006 21:53:23 GMT -5
Agreed... i didnt mean to insinuate that the defensive rebounding was anything above average.
I was trying to give an argument as to why we're not horribly pathetic on the boards ALL the time...
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,791
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 19, 2006 23:56:53 GMT -5
Agreed... i didnt mean to insinuate that the defensive rebounding was anything above average. I was trying to give an argument as to why we're not horribly pathetic on the boards ALL the time... No, I think you're absolutely right. If there is a legitimate significant weakness to the Princeton it is that you're clearing out the lane a lot and so offensive rebounding is hurt. I think you can partially offset it if you use a low post set (like we often do with Roy) or if you have your wings collapse and crash the boards. That said, I feel we abandon the offensive boards a lot not just because of the Princeton but also because we're scared of opposing fast breaks. We get back quick. Also, since we rarely drive, that's one less Hoya in the paint when the shot goes up.
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