Article From The Hoya

[AustinHoya03]

A University Unrivaled

www.thehoya.com/sports/110805/sports2.cfm

[Jack]

Not a bad examination, and a topic we have discussed here before, but I think he underplays the Syracuse and St. John's rivalry and overplays the Villanova rivalry from the 80's. Sure, 1985 is big, and Nova is closer to GU in both geography and academics than those other two, but every game with Cuse and SJU was an event back in those days- I don't get the same impression with Villanova.

[DFW HOYA]

If Andy Talley would get a series going with his Wildcats and the Hoyas in football, Villanova would be the closest thing to an all-sports rival.

(Yeah, they'd be favored like Lehigh was last week, but both teams would draw a large crowd every year, and it's close enough where students from both schools could make the trip.)

[AustinHoya03]

dfw said:

If Andy Talley would get a series going with his Wildcats and the Hoyas in football, Villanova would be the closest thing to an all-sports rival.

(Yeah, they'd be favored like Lehigh was last week, but both teams would draw a large crowd every year, and it's close enough where students from both schools could make the trip.)

Has Coach Benson explored this at all?

[HoyaSinceBirth]

I still think that Syracuse is our biggest rivals. Mainly because i was brought up hating them, where as this wasn't true for any other team.

[reformation]

Afew few thoughts,

I'm pretty sure the picture in the Hoya article looks like sju vs Gtwn rather than nova

The Sju + Syr games were usually bigger in the 80's than villanova-the guy is wrong on this one

Also, i'd be willing to bet that if given a choice of beating duke or nova this yr, most students would choose duke--that would go for most sports not just bball--i think the author overdoes the catholic element re:trying to make vu our main rival. its not irrelevant, but not dominant either

Gtwn's sports and academic rivals are generally not the same schools--thats generally not the case for most schools--thats probably one of the underlying reasons why sports don't get as much attention from the student body as most of us would like.

Logical GU rivals include -Duke, ND, Syr, Nova, SJU,
UVA, MD, gw, for most sports maybe navy, princeton, etc for a couple of sports--

[fsohoya]

At least for hoops, there's no question Syracuse has been our biggest rival. Unfortunately we dropped out of the rivalry a little, but we are back and it WILL be our biggest rivalry again.

[RBHoya]

Once we pick ourselves up again we can talk about rivalries. Our basketball team is on the rise to be sure, but we haven't proven we're serious yet. It'll take at least one more trip to the dance for that. And football... yea, I don't think I need to recount how that's gone since moving to the Patriot League.

Rivalries come with winning. Michigan and Ohio State football are perenially good in football. So are Duke and UNC in basketball. When we had a winning program in the '80s, we had rivals (Syracuse, Johnnies, Nova, probably in that order). Now that we've had a down period, we don't really have any. We generally play well against Syracuse regardless of record, and we've had some great games against Notre Dame the past few years or so in hoops. That doesn't make us rivals though.

That's the thing about rivalries that a lot of people neglect. They just happen. People are always trying to create/rekindle them. That isn't how it goes. If they are going to form or going to rekindle, its going to happen on the court/fields. You can talk them up all you want, but rivalries are made between the lines.

I'd honestly like to see rivalries develop with either UMCP (has the advantage of being local + a lot of us already disliking them) or UVA (has the advantage of being a legitimate academic competitor, and is still relatively nearby), but neither of these schools play in our conference so its not likely to ever happen. I like the idea of Small Catholic Private School vs. Big State U, especially with UVA bc we both have really good academics despite being dissimilar in size.... but I doubt it. I also like Notre Dame, since we're in the same conference and we're the 2 best Catholic Universities in America... the thing is, football is king at Notre Dame, and basketball is an afterthought. We'll never have an all-consuming rivalry with a school when we don't even play them in their #1 sport. We may rekindle a rivalry with Syracuse on the court, but that'll happen when it happens. And obviously, we'll never rival them in football and they'll never rival us in academics.

As much as I hate to say it, I think its tough for us because of our football situation. It's tough for a non IA football school to have a rivalry with a school thats IA for football, because schools that are IA football generally tend to care about their football team first. There are definitly exceptions, Duke probably being the most obvious, Kentucky and Arizona as well. At some places its tough to determine which is more important, like Syracuse, Maryland, UConn. But I don't think the rivalry is likely to be as intense nowadays if it is with a "football" school and a non football school, just because college football is so big. Just my opinion.

Villanova is the most logical choice, I'd say. Near, same conference, basketball is the clear number one sport, Catholic... I wouldnt say theyre an academic competitor, at least no more than GW. There is a lot of anti-Georgetown sentiment among their students from what I know, most likely as a result of not getting in, and theres little anti-Nova sentiment here IMO. I'd love it if our football team played them and a rivalry developed there too, but we are not on their level in football. They are much better than we are.


I dunno. Like I said, it's pointless to analyze it too much (then why'd I just write a whole post doing so--D'oh!) because rivalries are created on the field, not message forums.

[2ndRyan]

the picture is definitely St John's- that's Chris Mullin with his back to the camera. Hard to say exactly where they are but it looks like the Garden to me.

[seaweed]

late 80s perspective

My visit to GU coincided with the SJU-GU game in January 85 at Cap Center, they were ranked #1, we were #2. Stood outside with both student sections waiting to get in, they were chanting "We are #1" and waving a particular single digit with numerous implications, the GU students we replying with the traditional "We are not from Queens". I don't even know who won the game, but I know I committed on the spot and ended up at GU. I do remember that we beat them twice in March of that year, all that really mattered, at least before...

I never took Nova seriously because of the coke issue - I am no puritan but there really should be an asterisk next to that victory and all the hoopla last year was annoying since nobody even acknowledged the reality that one team was on drugs. Nonetheless, as someone committed to the school it was heart wrenching and I will never forgive them, mention the name Pink.... or McL... and frankly I would rather see them just go away. At the end of the day, they are a non-issue.


After Coach Lou, Mullin, Wennington, Walter Berry et all split and SJU had its struggles, we really seemed only to care about

'cuse. They have consistently been a thorn in our sides, and we have more than returned the favor up at Carrier Dome, eh, I mean Boeheim Court, eh, I mean Hoya Home Away from Home. I'd bet lacrosse, hoops or tiddlywinks against my only friend from the school (my dad has a masters, but really, do grad students count in all this?). I puke a little in the back of my throat when I see orange, and if I have to drive from Rochester to Boston I would sooner go through Miami and drive cross that Editedant town. There is no other team in the BE that inspires that kind of feeling, the pure elemental hatred of that place.

A funny 'cuse story - I work with a lady who went there, and was raggin her for 'melo's complete lack of academic commitment. She replied with "what is he supposed to do, either go pro right out of HS or go somewhere for a year where he ca refine his game. They really should have a place like that where there are no academic issues and young athletes can focus on getting to the pros" I of course replied, "They do have a place like that, it is called Syracuse"

peace out

[hoya01]

Definitely 'Cuse. Both Basketball and Lacrosse.

[DrumsGoBang]

Our rival is ITT tech.

[CAHoya07]

I hate Syracuse. I hate Syracuse. I hate Syracuse.

I'll disagree with RBHoya in one respect: winning may help create rivalries, but it definitely doesn't sustain them. I believe the definition of a rivalry game is that it is a big grudge match regardless of the records of teams playing. Look at Stanford-Cal and Army-Navy in football. In recent years, Stanford and Army have both sucked, but no one can deny that they are still rivalry games based on tradition.

That said, I hate Syracuse.

[Deleted]

The author make a solid case for Vanilla-Nova, but c'mon...

... our biggest rival, no matter the sport or era, will always be Syracuse men's hoops.

Even though their games against teams like You Con have been more meaningful recently, I'm willing to bet SUcks fans still hate G'Town with all their (cold, black) hearts just a bit more. As III brings the program back from the brink, the rivalry will only continue to flourish. Vanilla-Nova, the Johnnies and others will always be second billing.

Its all about fans of both teams caring no matter what, like CA said. That's why, despite their best efforts, BC-ND will never be a huge rivalry... because ND fans simply don't care. If you're looking for an all-sports, yes, we have a problem there. Perhaps 'Nova is best suited there. But I can't imagine GU-Nova ever rising to the level of mutual hatred and passion that GU-SUcks has.

[Boz]

Buffalo is right. "HOYA" is a four-letter word in upstate New York. Always has been, always will be.

It has been far too long since we beat them, but rest assured, as soon as we do on Jan. 28, SU fans will remember how much they hate Georgetown, much more than UConn, Pitt or anyone else.

And if you hear their fans say to you, "We don't care," trust me, it's just to Edited you off. Look at it the other way, if we beat them for the next five years, wouldn't you say the same thing? But would you hate them any less? I doubt it.

[nodak89]

I think the similarity angle on rivalry is a bit over done.

How can you hate someone who is so like yourself? I can't bring myself to hate the Johnnies (or the Mildcats or PC or the Hall for that matter.)

Syracuse is the anti-Georgetown. Let me count the ways.

Academics: (duh)
Location: DC v. upstate NY
School colors: Obnoxious orange v. classic blue and gray
"Football school": I-A (alleged) v. I-AA
Courtside characters: Dome Ranger v. Fr McFadden and Rich
Mascot: fuzzy colored orb v. Jack
Collar: blue v. "popped"



We share two of our most important sports (hoops and lacrosse) to make this work.


(Orange bleepers!)

[HoyaSinceBirth]

also to my recoletion we would've beat Syracuse last year if that three hadn't been changed to a two.

[GUHoya07]

Cuse is definitely our biggest rival, I agree with all the posts people are making. As I was reading this article in the caf I was disgusted at how much it was downplayed. We specifically have syracuse shirts that have "Cuse Sucks" written on them and huge X's over the logo laid out on the ground in front of our tables when we sell season tickets. CUSE SUCKS!!!

Also, what was that BS about Nova possibly not considering us a rival cause we're picked to finish a little lower than them??? WHAT???

[2ndRyan]

I moved to Philadelphia in the early eighties and people from Nova were driven crazy by Georgetown. I recall their students rushing the floor of the Palestra in a frenzy when they beat us there in '83. I used to always get Nova fans' goat when I said I'd be happy to lose to Nova twice if we could sweep St John's and Syracuse, whom I considered along with Georgetown to be the triumvirate rulers of the Big East. '85 changed how I felt about Nova. I don't think they're our rivals but I always want to beat them and unfortunately it will never make up for 1985.

In upstate New york, I would agree they hate Georgetown. The tried and true way to get any old Orange fan to spout in helpless rage is to ask them who closed Manley.