2024 NCAA Tournament Discussion

[DanMcQ]

[SSHoya]

NC State - Duke. Ugly.

[hoopsmccan]

Mar 31, 2024 16:13:27 GMT -5 DanMcQ said:

Watched the game with my nephews and realize between them and Twitter, there is a whole generation that doesn’t understand and certainly doesn’t appreciate post play.

hm

[SSHoya]

Mar 31, 2024 16:13:27 GMT -5 DanMcQ said:

Edey was getting all the foul calls that Mike Sweetney never got leading to Esh's rant!

georgetownvoice.com/2003/01/16/the-esherant/

[DanMcQ]

[DanMcQ]

[SSHoya]

Filipowski is a whiny beyotch. Grayson Allen, part II.

[Elvado]

Duke losing just never ceases to entertain.

[SSHoya]

NC State seemed to get energized after that BS tech on Keatts for being out of the coaching box.

[DallasHoya]

Mar 31, 2024 18:24:44 GMT -5 Elvado said:

Duke losing just never ceases to entertain.

So is the new rule that calls against Duke are reviewable, but calls in Duke’s favor are not?

[Elvado]

Mar 31, 2024 18:31:10 GMT -5 DallasHoya said:

Mar 31, 2024 18:24:44 GMT -5 Elvado said:

Duke losing just never ceases to entertain.

So is the new rule that calls against Duke are reviewable, but calls in Duke’s favor are not?

Yes it was a by product of the Count Chocula Competition Committee Amendments.

Issued under cover of darkness…

[EtomicB]

This is next-level stuff

[professorhoya]

So satisfying to see Duke get demolished and to watch them panic.

Coach K still helping out behind the scenes but Scheyer just doesn’t have the same discipline with his players that Coach K did with his players. A lot of dumb mistakes or loss of composure in crunch time by duke.

They did have an overall solid strategy of trying to get Burns and Diarra in foul trouble by attacking them (this is what Marquette should have done instead of jacking up 3s which won’t get bigs in foul trouble) but Middlebrook stepped up.

It should be interesting to see Burns and company vs Edey as I don’t think Edey has ever faced a wide body like Burns and Burns hasn’t face a 7-4 dominant center before.

[jwp91]

That a coach in his early 30s is still on the learning curve should be expected by everyone even if the name Duke is on the front of the jersey.

[hoyaboya]

Apr 1, 2024 9:14:16 GMT -5 jwp91 said:

That a coach in his early 30s is still on the learning curve should be expected by everyone even if the name Duke is on the front of the jersey.

Especially since the way Duke won for decades under Coach K - by recruiting highly ranked freshman and developing them over several years - no longer applies at the highest ranks of college basketball. There is very little that Scheyer learned under Coach K that is relevant in today's game.

That's why it's foolish to think that coaches who had success in the pre-NIL/transfer portal world are just as likely to have success in today's college basketball model.

[This Just In]

The Connecticut Huskies Invitational Tournament Continues...
That 30-0 run vs Illinois was impressive.
The next victim up is Alabama

[professorhoya]

Apr 1, 2024 9:14:16 GMT -5 jwp91 said:

That a coach in his early 30s is still on the learning curve should be expected by everyone even if the name Duke is on the front of the jersey.

Jury is still out on Scheyer.

There’s a bit of controversy with that pick as the Duke search Committee wanted Tommy Amaker, but Coach K blocked it and put Scheyer in as his successor.

www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33294918/mike-krzyzewski-book-says-duke-wanted-tommy-amaker-wanted-jon-scheyer

Biggest knock on Scheyer is he doesn’t have any head coaching experience at any level before the Duke job. So hard to assess his leadership.

There are a lot of coaches under the coach K coaching tree that have head coaching experience (Snyder, Amaker, capall, wojo, etc) so Scheyer was an interesting pick.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Apr 1, 2024 10:07:26 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

Apr 1, 2024 9:14:16 GMT -5 jwp91 said:

That a coach in his early 30s is still on the learning curve should be expected by everyone even if the name Duke is on the front of the jersey.

Jury is still out on Scheyer.

There’s a bit of controversy with that pick as the Duke search Committee wanted Tommy Amaker, but Coach K blocked it and put Scheyer in as his successor.

www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33294918/mike-krzyzewski-book-says-duke-wanted-tommy-amaker-wanted-jon-scheyer

Biggest knock on Scheyer is he doesn’t have any head coaching experience at any level before the Duke job. So hard to assess his leadership.

There are a lot of coaches under the coach K coaching tree that have head coaching experience (Snyder, Amaker, capall, wojo, etc) so Scheyer was an interesting pick.

Tommy Amaker would have made no sense for Duke. He's now been at Harvard since 2007-2008, and except for that stint between 2012 and 2015 when he had pretty good Harvard teams and made the tournament, his teams have gotten much worse, particularly in the last three years. He also hasn't recruited at the level that Duke needs to recruit at for a very long time. He never made the tournament at Michigan, and he only made the tournament once while coaching Seton Hall.

I agree it's hard to assess his experience, but I think Scheyer was a very logical pick even if he was an untested one. Keep in mind this is different than hiring an up and comer type out of the blue, as Scheyer was with the program and essentially inherited an entire program from Coach K. The odds of somebody like Scheyer succeeding in that situation are much greater than if you just hire random assistant to coach at a program he's never been at before.

The real problem with the Coach K coaching tree is that most, if not all of the guys you mentioned haven't had a ton of success in their head coaching jobs, and so the case for hiring them was pretty weak. If you wanted to hire someone within the program, then Scheyer was as good a choice as any. And the guy made an Elite 8 in Year 2 of his coaching. I'd say that's a pretty good start.

[757hoyafan]

Mar 31, 2024 16:13:27 GMT -5 DanMcQ said:

Lol

[professorhoya]

Apr 1, 2024 10:20:47 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Apr 1, 2024 10:07:26 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

Jury is still out on Scheyer.

There’s a bit of controversy with that pick as the Duke search Committee wanted Tommy Amaker, but Coach K blocked it and put Scheyer in as his successor.

www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33294918/mike-krzyzewski-book-says-duke-wanted-tommy-amaker-wanted-jon-scheyer

Biggest knock on Scheyer is he doesn’t have any head coaching experience at any level before the Duke job. So hard to assess his leadership.

There are a lot of coaches under the coach K coaching tree that have head coaching experience (Snyder, Amaker, capall, wojo, etc) so Scheyer was an interesting pick.

Tommy Amaker would have made no sense for Duke. He's now been at Harvard since 2007-2008, and except for that stint between 2012 and 2015 when he had pretty good Harvard teams and made the tournament, his teams have gotten much worse, particularly in the last three years. He also hasn't recruited at the level that Duke needs to recruit at for a very long time. He never made the tournament at Michigan, and he only made the tournament once while coaching Seton Hall.

I agree it's hard to assess his experience, but I think Scheyer was a very logical pick even if he was an untested one. Keep in mind this is different than hiring an up and comer type out of the blue, as Scheyer was with the program and essentially inherited an entire program from Coach K. The odds of somebody like Scheyer succeeding in that situation are much greater than if you just hire random assistant to coach at a program he's never been at before.

The real problem with the Coach K coaching tree is that most, if not all of the guys you mentioned haven't had a ton of success in their head coaching jobs, and so the case for hiring them was pretty weak. If you wanted to hire someone within the program, then Scheyer was as good a choice as any. And the guy made an Elite 8 in Year 2 of his coaching. I'd say that's a pretty good start.

Timing is often everything with these hires.

Because Roy Williams was unavailable they kept it in the famiglia when UNC hired Matt Dohrety who only had a couple promising seasons at Notre Dame but was still considered inexperienced. Dohretys tenure at UNC ended up being a debacle.

III had a successful head coaching run at Princeton. I think if we didn’t go after him then he would have gone to another school and have been unavailable for 7-10 years. So if Pops did push Escherick out like K blocked Amaker in our case it was probably the right move.

You see it now with Indiana. Mike Woodson is a lame duck coach and a lot of supporters wanted him gone so they could get Bobby Knight/IU disciple Dusty May. But IU didn’t pull the trigger and dusty May is now at Michigan for the next 7-10 years. And likely would not move over to rival Indiana after that. So IU lost out on home grown Dusty May who along with Chris Beard are Bobby Knights best coaches.

btownbanners.com/topic/14310-fire-coach-woodson/

I think what Duke should have done is hire Amaker and have Scheyer get head coaching experience at a mid major. If Amaker succeeeds great, if he doesn’t then you have a scheyer ready to take over assuming a successful mid major head coaching pit stop. Even if both succeed, scheyer could’ve still taken the reigns further down the road since he’s much younger. Part of the Calucus May be that coach k still wants control of the program and to coach from the side and this would be easier with an inexperienced guy with no head coaching experience like Scheyer.